Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

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Maakari
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Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Maakari »

I put this on a new thread as, like Hepizibah says it was an invitation for people to say what special items people stow away in their cases! not what weaponery is need for holiday defences in Sunny LUXOR!!!!!!!!!!
but to follow Mr Send, Robbo and ST'S posts.
I agree with Robbos comments. I too, have an Egyptian husband, which does mean that I am protected from a lot of things you hear about on here,but I do do not spend 100% of the time glued to his hip! There are times when I venture out on my own (ooohhhhh) to shop, to meet with friends and family etc. Although I do admit the " feeling" is Not the same as years past, I still feel "safe"
I live in rural south Dorset, near the genteel, affluent seaside retirement haven of Bournemouth. I would not walk the streets of foresaid town of an night there! It turns into a United nation den of iniuquty (i know, i cant spell!) Gangs of loud drunken foul mouthed girls, hoards of ethnic groups yelling at each other, enibriated boys throwing up or bare knuckle fighting, drugs, needles, police sirens you name it!,so I dont feel safe there, so I don't venture there. Now Luxor might have it's issues, but my yokel antennae does'nt vibrate with a sense of danger, so it can't be that bad!.
BUT......... AS I DO WHEN IN ANY COUNTRY, I am self aware for my own safety. I do, as others do, wear a small over body bag on opposite side to traffic, this just contains "girlie " essentials like ciggies, tissues small change and importantly, me lippy!!!! I dont wear flashy obvious jewels or carry in full sight cam corder or expensive camera. If by sad chance they do manage to tar from me my belongings, i can think that they will be sorely disapointed with their swag!!!! And I know, with the skin colouring in Egypt, that my Sexy Fushia lippy will play hell with their complexion!
If faced with a Magnum gun, or the sparkle of a switch blade I would hand over immediately, but know this Suckers, I may look like a pale, plump milkmaid, but I bite!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I work hard why should they be handed it on a plate!!!!!
But this sort of thing happens all over the world, I have had attempts in Tenerife, India, Greece (NONE SUCESSFUL I HASTEN TO ADD). My friend last year, was in Spain (costa somethin'!) she had special reinforced strap over body bag on, when two nutters on motorbike attempted to cut and snatch it. the strap held, but not knowing it was not completely severed they carried on, with my friends face dragging along road behind them! This brought the bike up short and tipped it over. My friend was fuelled by adrenaline and was so angry that they would take by force what she had worked so hard for, that she put all her 8 stone behind a punch, and a resounding crack was heard, she broke his jaw! The muggers were held by passers by and arrested by police. The injured lad was complaining bitterly and said he would sue my friend! The police man said " I think you will find that all these people saw you hit your jaw on the road, did'nt you?"
So It is not just Luxor that we hear these accounts from.
IF IN DOUBT.........Do not book to come. As adults we are given choices. we must look into ourselves and look to ourselves for own own self safety. If you feel comfortable , come, if not don't. Don't rely on anothers opinion on a cities current safety situation, it is a matter of personal preservation. One holidaymaker might be of a nervous disposition, and find that he/she is terrified for his life the whole time, but another might not even notice if a evil thug with an AK47 popped up in front of 'em! Take all these posts on this forum, as they are meant to be taken. They are views offered by lots of varied human beings, and not failsafe assurities for anyone thinking of booking to Luxor/Egypt. That, my fellow travellers is down to you to decide.
Stay at home, but, you might be raided in the night by a gang of hairy, tattooed drunken twonks armed with baseball bats, willing to beat you up for yer Grannys wedding ring and cheap booze from your drinks cabinet!
There is a big world out there, go enjoy..................but where ever you roam.......... be safe (there are some that say 2012 is yer last year on this earth, so get travelling before you pop this mortal coil!)

All that said..................... I LOVE LUXOR......SO THERE!



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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Kunis »

Brilliant post, you says it as it is, I too live in the west country (Torquay) and I never go to the harbour area during the evenings particularly late evenings.

I seems to me that alchohol seems to make many people thicker than ever and possibly braver, of course usually egged on by underdressed foul mouthed "girls"..

Fortunately we do not see too much of that in Luxor and we are definetly spared the foul mouthed "girls" yes there have been occasions recently when perhaps in the street in Luxor I have felt uncomfortable, but thankfully have been spared any real problems.

It is still easy to relax but of course be aware of what is going on around you, as you should anywhere, but I certainly have never felt the need to think twice about returning so far.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Scottishtourist »

Thank you Maakari,Kunis,Robbo for all your honest posts.I'm hoping to come back to Luxor in September if my (limited)finances can fund the airfare!
Hope too that things will have settled down a bit,not just in Luxor,but in Egypt as a whole.
I appreciate and value your opinions.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Lisak »

Well said Maakari we all have choices about where to go.
(Just as we all know someone who moans for the sake of it)
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Robert Send »

I know I will get shot down and mutilated for this, but I have just received a 4 minute video clip of an incident that happened on the Jolly Villa Road today, the time on the clip says 9.40am. It shows a European couple on I suppose a hired motorcycle, (it might even be foreigners that live there, but any how they are Western People), surrounded by marauding local people brandishing staffs and shouting at the top of their voices, it shows men with staffs that appear to be threatening them. After a couple of minutes the Army and Police intervene but it looked severe and very ugly. this clip is supposed to be going on to You Tube today with a strict warning that Luxor IS VOLOTILE and AT THE MOMENT CAN BE UNSAFE FOR TOURISTS. I could not believe it, it looked like something you would see in an X Rated film. Goodness knows what it was all about, but there were rocks and those old settee things across the main road. But its these things that are ruining Luxor, and if people start getting threatened like in this video it will not be long before the shutters come down to the world. Its when you see things like this "ON VIDEO" that makes you believe that things are not safe in Luxor. Video's do not tell lies.

Even if these people had ridden into a trouble spot, there was no reason for the main road to be blocked, surely that is illegal, but although it showed the Millitary and Police where there in numbers, it also showed they seemed powerless to control the situation.

Sorry folks but any of you people or ex pats, living in and around Luxor, may be involved in something like this in the future, so its a warning to be on your guard, because it seems things can blow up out of nothing.

Now I will sit back and see how many people condemn me for informing the Forum of this. It is a very serious incident that involved Western People.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Scottishtourist »

I wait with bated breath for replies as well Robert!
No doubt it will all be put down to a "simple misunderstanding!"
They'll have been in the wrong place at the wrong time!
Just like the kidnapped tourists,the victims of muggings,and anyone else who has the misfortune to get caught up in all this mayhem!
Are you not aware by now that Luxor drug dealers,organised crime gangs,protestors,muggers and kidnappers are the friendliest and most gentle people in the world?
So perish the thought that anyone is ever in any danger!

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by HEPZIBAH »

Robert Send wrote: Video's do not tell lies.
WRONG! In my opinion at least, and if they are not actually telling lies they are certainly used to manipulate the truth. It used to be the case that the camera didn't lie but it did not take long after it's developement for that to proved wrong too.

I am not saying this is or isn't the case in this instance as I was not there, I have not heard about this incident from a first hand witness, and I have not seen the video.

You have already stated that you don't know what was going on and yet you still use mention of a video clip - without presenting any link to it so that people can make up their own minds - in a sensational manner.

The fact that the road was blocked is significant. You don't know why it was blocked, I don't know why it was blocked, but it must have been blocked for a purpose. Perhaps there are members who know what this is about and will post about it and give some clearer information.

In the meantime perhaps you'd like to share this video that you have shown so that others can make their own minds up about the situation.
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Robert Send »

The Video came as a part of an e-mail, many time I have tried to post pictures on the site of unusual thing and the upload will not happen it comes up as time out, videos I tried to upload a video of a dog riding on a donkey about 3 weeks ago and it failed to upload the laptop I am using show a message time out. So it is a case of looking for it appearing on youtube. i cannot find out if its the site or the laptop that is at fault, but on saying that this laptop will not allow me to cut and clip pictures either.

Scottish Tourist, everything that happens in Luxor is normally put down to misunderstanding or bending the truth, or just a friendly skirmish even, its mainly because many people are in denial of what is happening, and i think these may be the people who have much to loose, and involved with the Tourist Trade. To be honest I think my family were in total denial about Luxor at one time, everything I said to them they came up with a simple excuse, but not an answer, if I explained to them they are in denial they would explode and say Rubbish. They are not now, they have seen and listened, and cannot wait to get out of Luxor. Being a family member I feel really sorry for them, they wanted to live here and have a happy retirement, then the Revolution came along and changed many things and many things in the future will change too.
Last edited by Robert Send on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Mad Dilys »

It is possible for videos and picture of any subject to be mis-interpreted, though I am not saying that this is the case in question as I haven't seen the video.

I was due to use the Bayadea/Bridge road running paralel to the Nile yesterday afternoon.

Just as I was ready to go, I was advised that the road was closed to all traffic and that security forces were out in strength in the area because of a serious "problem". I suggested taking an alternative route, but was advised against it as all traffic in that area was at a standstill. At this time there were reports of shooting and possible deaths.

The next information was that 7 people had been injured and taken to hospital following gunshots fired by one individual. The cause of the incident wasn't very clear.

Today I have been told that in fact 8 people were injured. According to unofficial reports a local man who had been in prison for a very long time (reportedly 25 years) came home to find that local boys were playing football on a rough and ready pitch on land that he claimed was his very close to the river.

The boys refused to recognise his authority and an argument began which gradually involved other local people. The man at the centre of the dispute finally left the scene and shortly returned with a gun which he fired at random those who he felt were opposing him.

Of course, chaos ensued, sides were taken, tempers rose and the security forces sealed the area to prevent further danger to the road using public.

Some people used furniture to block the road also to prevent any spead of the violence. It is possible that while in shock voices could be raised and people defending themselves and trying to prevent others from entering the danger zone could be mis-understood, the people wanting to use the road thinking that they were being attacked, not defended.

There has been a lot of unrest about the ownership of land in that area, as in many places which have been designated for tourist developement without consultation with the traditonal existing owners - who might not have documentary evidence to support their claim to land that they feel has been sold for development at a huge profit to the disputed owners new owners - thus causing a deep sense of resentment.
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by BENNU »

If you have something to share with us, why don't you forward your email, deleting anything private, to the admimistrator...

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Robert Send »

MD is that not for the so called legal system to sort out, Ownerships and valid papers etc. and not gunslingers.

Oh Bennu just had another e-mail with the same attachment so it is doing the rounds, the administator or members are bound to receive it sometime today, and upload it.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Mad Dilys »

Robert Send wrote:MD is that not for the so called legal system to sort out, Ownerships and valid papers etc. and not gunslingers.
Careful Robert, stupid questions deserve stupid answers and further muddy serious discussion. :cool:
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Subversion »

In reply to RS and ST

I can't speak for others - but I am under no illusion that Egyptian muggers et al are the friendliest in the world.

And while the situation you are outlining must have indeed been terrifying for the Europeans caught up in that - actually in the grand scheme of deliberate attacks on tourists, this pales to insignificance.

Perhaps "Hatchepsut" has escaped you?

I went to Luxor shortly after that incident - the entire City was in shock and anyone who had any knowledge of that event will be under no misunderstanding about just how violent things can get.

Luxor always has been volatile - simple disputes get out of hand very quickly - people carry guns and some are not afraid to use them. The advice has always been to back away as quickly as you can if you find yourself in a conflict.

Dilys's explanation is lucid - its about reading right to left again and thinking about what you see in a different way - make no mistake, had there been any real intention by the mob to do those westerners harm then harm would have been done to them.

If you feel you are performing some kind of public service by warning the unsuspecting tourist that Luxor is not a guaranteed safe haven - I totally support that.

In my own personal view - anyone who cannot get their head round the fact it is an Arab/African country with a very differing culture to that of the west probably does need reminding, preferably before they travel.

Sx

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by HEPZIBAH »

I've just written a reply here to than MD, and as I was submitting it we had a clap of thunder and my post disappeared! I won't retype it all as other posts have appeared since, but I did want to say...

Mad Dilys, thank you for posting some relevent local information about this road block incident. I hope that if you hear more that you will keep us updated.
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Mad Dilys »

Subversion wrote:In reply to RS and ST

I can't speak for others - but I am under no illusion that Egyptian muggers et al are the friendliest in the world.

And while the situation you are outlining must have indeed been terrifying for the Europeans caught up in that - actually in the grand scheme of deliberate attacks on tourists, this pales to insignificance.

Perhaps "Hatchepsut" has escaped you?

I went to Luxor shortly after that incident - the entire City was in shock and anyone who had any knowledge of that event will be under no misunderstanding about just how violent things can get.

Luxor always has been volatile - simple disputes get out of hand very quickly - people carry guns and some are not afraid to use them. The advice has always been to back away as quickly as you can if you find yourself in a conflict.

Dilys's explanation is lucid - its about reading right to left again and thinking about what you see in a different way - make no mistake, had there been any real intention by the mob to do those westerners harm then harm would have been done to them.

If you feel you are performing some kind of public service by warning the unsuspecting tourist that Luxor is not a guaranteed safe haven - I totally support that.

In my own personal view - anyone who cannot get their head round the fact it is an Arab/African country with a very differing culture to that of the west probably does need reminding, preferably before they travel.

Sx
Al Hamdulillah, thank you for reading my contribution with an open mind and without making an attempt to twist it into meeting the requirements of a personal agenda. :up
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Bearded Brian »

I don't think your comment about those in the tourist business always saying that these are misunderstandings and are so minor that they shouldn't be reported just look at some of the post from DJK.

As for the road block being illegal - it's illegal in France the UK etc and it happens there too.

Although the full facts do not appear to have been given in your post MD has provided an explanation and I believe that all forum members should be reminded of what can happen suddenly.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Bearded Brian »

Many years ago there was a video - not sure if it was on TV or part of a management training course. The video had been edited in such a way that it looked as if an oik had knocked over an old lady and was running away - actually the old lady had been mugged by a well dressed person and the oik was chasing after the mugger. In another clip a punk girl 'attacks' a man in the middle of the road - rugby tackle style and they both end up on the ground - she was in fact saving him from, I think, a billboard that was falling from a wall.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by HEPZIBAH »

Bearded Brian wrote:Many years ago there was a video - not sure if it was on TV or part of a management training course. The video had been edited in such a way that it looked as if an oik had knocked over an old lady and was running away - actually the old lady had been mugged by a well dressed person and the oik was chasing after the mugger. In another clip a punk girl 'attacks' a man in the middle of the road - rugby tackle style and they both end up on the ground - she was in fact saving him from, I think, a billboard that was falling from a wall.
Noooo that can't be right BeardedBrian - we all know 'the camera never lies'! :roll:
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Mad Dilys »

I went to the bridge today via the "Airport road" rather than the Movenpick road.

Everything was perfectly normal until we got just round the sharp bend where there is a bridge over the canal about a quarter of a mile before the Check Point at the Nile bridge.

Right by the canal bridge under the trees was a collection of police vehicles including at least one big blue "Paddy wagon". The group of uniformed men seemed to be pretty relaxed. Further along on the far bank of the canal were a lot more people. Groups of civilians, plenty of motorbikes (without riders) and a lot more uniformed men with their vehicles, including 3 more "Paddy wagons".

It looked as if people were gathering to discuss the situation, but quietly in small groups. I thought they looked deeply shocked and they probably were.

A previous post of mine is lost in the ether, it contained the following.

I am sure that most of us would like to express our concern for the injured and their families. Personally I am concerned for the family of the gunman. In recent years there have been spontaneous shootings in schools, holiday camps and colleges around the world.

This tragic event would appear to be in the same category.
Definitely not aimed at tourists.

By the way I came home by the main road beside the Nile, everything as normal - including the van shunted by an Ambulance when it didn't get out the way on hearing the siren, and then got stuck on the road humps. No damage, except to bumpers. Al Hamdulillah.
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by HEPZIBAH »

Many thanks for the update MD. I share your concern for all those involved directly, or indirectly, in this awful incident.

DJKeefy posted a news report on another thread. It mentions being near Aswan but it sounds too much like this incident for it not to be the same one. In chatting, I think we have come to the conclusion that a mistake has been made and that it should not be referring to Aswan but to 'an area close to the Aswan road leading from Luxor'.
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