Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Mad Dilys »

Robert Send wrote:So now we know 2 people, arrested and detained by Luxor Police for Attempted Murder inciting confliction and terrorising the public, it has been printed in the National Press. 8 people were injured.

Its there in black and white, no mention of one person handing himself in at all.

So it seems it was more than just a skirmish between locals, or again maybe you will all disagree!! and maybe think that the charge of attempted murder is nothing. Going to be interesting how people reply to this, I suppose it will now be the media hyping things up, or do not always believe what you read in the paper
Oh dear Robert. Do we "know 2 people, arrested and detained by Luxor Police for Attempted Murder inciting confliction and terrorising the public, it has been printed in the National Press. 8 people were injured" Which National Press?
You are quoting so please give us a reference.


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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Robert Send »

MD DJK has put the information on Know Egypt section. It seems as though these tourists were caught up in this mayhem, but it just goes to show that Luxor is not as safe as what people make it out to be, at any one time a tourist could be caught up in a situation like this and i could well imaging that it would have been terrifying for them.
It would be nice to have heard from them as to how they felt, but from a personal point of veiw I would have been hotfooting out of there, bullet in my back or not!
The Press information was on AL Masry/The Egyptian Independant.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Bearded Brian »

It may not be as safe as some people say but it's not what I would call an un-safe place which is what you appear to be doing (I may be wrong of course). Don't get me wrong I think these incidents should be reported to enable people to make up their own minds.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by HEPZIBAH »

Mad Dilys wrote:
HEPZIBAH wrote:Many thanks for the update MD. I share your concern for all those involved directly, or indirectly, in this awful incident.

DJKeefy posted a news report on another thread. It mentions being near Aswan but it sounds too much like this incident for it not to be the same one. In chatting, I think we have come to the conclusion that a mistake has been made and that it should not be referring to Aswan but to 'an area close to the Aswan road leading from Luxor'.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30035
Unfortunately it seems that there were indeed 2 incidents. :(

:( Incredible! Makes bad news even worse.
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Teddyboy »

"I think these incidents should be reported to enable people to make up their own minds."

I disagree entirely!

These sorts of incidents are reported where they need to be; in the local press and possibly on local TV and radio. After all, it's local people who are likely to be affected by such things. To determinedly bandy them about (out of context) on sites like this only serves to rack up potential visitors' fears that they are coming to a 'Middle Eastern war zone' which is blatant nonsense!

Do you suppose that a similar London or Chicago forum would harp endlessly on about their gangland feuds and killings, or their pickpocketing hotspots or whatever? Anyone with the slightest bit of common sense already knows that they have an outside chance of having their holiday, or part of it, effected by some purely local problem, whether it's a strike, a crime or a natural occurrence, wherever they go. Although I'm sure to be lambasted for saying this; I'm of the opinion that many potential visitors are already very concerned about possibly coming to Luxor, or Egypt in general. They mistakenly view it as a part of the troubled 'Middle East', simply because they don't have the wits to distinguish between basket cases like Iran or Afghanistan and the relative 'ordinariness' of Egypt and Egyptian life (even though it's still very foreign to us and them).

I'm not suggesting that such reports should be hidden, or anything like that, but this sort of overemphasising is tantamount to putting up great big signs saying "HERE BE DRAGONS!" And displays a similar level of awareness and understanding as those unenlightened cartographers of old!

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by shebs1964 »

Agree with you Teddy Boy. Where I live, in a town about 5 miles away this sort of thing is a regular occurance, so regular unless its particular bad, i.e. not just beatings, thefts or drug related it does not even make the local news. Not good for the local residents, but these incidents have no affect on my life what so ever.
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by hatusu »

shebs1964 wrote:Agree with you Teddy Boy. Where I live, in a town about 5 miles away this sort of thing is a regular occurance, so regular unless its particular bad, i.e. not just beatings, thefts or drug related it does not even make the local news. Not good for the local residents, but these incidents have no affect on my life what so ever.
In the late 1980's a new family moved into our quiet little cul-de-sac. I imagined that because they'd come from Belfast, they'd moved because of the IRA atrocities. Not a bit of it. Chatting to my new neighbour, in her early 40's and having lived all her life in Belfast, I was astounded that she'd never seen a bomb blast; she'd never seen a dead body; she'd never even heard any gunfire; nobody she knew had ever been involved in an incident. I'd imagined that everyone in Belfast had been ducking bullets and bombs every day. The most inconvenience she'd suffered was constant bag searches when she went shopping in the town centre.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Robert Send »

I suppose at the end of the day, these incidents happen and if tourists get caught up its them that will tell the world. But at the same time i think they do have a right to know that these things happen and do not come to Egypt willy nilly with a King Tut head on. These poor people must have been terrified as I would have been. Anyway no matter what people should be aware of the Bad as well as the good things that go on in Egypt, its a democratic duty to let people know and then let them decide for themselves. I get many links sent to me showing beautiful places and temples and tourist places, nobody seems to report the terrible things that go on, especially in Luxor, would you not think it gives people a false sense of security? I personally got involved in a incident when there at the beginning of the year, now I go no where near the place, I must admit I was pettrified if it were not for family I would not have come back again, and that was something to do with 2 families battling it out, and then turning on me for saying that I was a tourist and am not interested in getting involved with your wars. Your wars are a private matter and you should not be involving me, as it were they were not turning on me but just letting me get by, but it was worrying at the time when you get men approaching you with guns over their shoulder. Maybe though this may be my last visit due to my family moving to another country soon. I do really wish Egypt and Luxor well, but really it needs a lot of money spending on education and buildings, and I do think it will take a very long time. The biggest problem is telling the people what Democracy is because they really have no idea whatsoever. I appreciate that they have or will or maybe soon have a new President, but if you think of the turnout at the Presidential Election, if I remember something like 64% which means that each candidate got 20 - 24% of 64% of the peoples vote, if the other 36% had voted other people that would mean that the two run off candidates only polled around 10% of the national vote. Better not comment on that one hey!!!

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by DJKeefy »

Disagree with you Teddyboy and shebs1964...

(quick example) If only someone had told me that they were a road block up near ACE after the revolution and that guys there had axes, machetes and guns etc, I would have stayed well clear of the particular area and gone another way, It really frightened me, I for one really apreciate any news of any going on's so that I can make my own choice to wether its safe or not.

shebs1964 you know of the dangers of the town 5 miles away from you (so you have the information from somewhere) if you go there you will me more alert to your surronding, people who know then can take some precautions to defend themselves from maybe a mugger etc (pepper spray, personal alarm).
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by shebs1964 »

But its the local people who need to know not the entire world. I agree if you live there then you need to know and if you are on holiday then local updates can be given. No where is a 100% safe.
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by DJKeefy »

shebs1964 wrote:But its the local people who need to know not the entire world. I agree if you live there then you need to know and if you are on holiday then local updates can be given. No where is a 100% safe.
That's wrong - OH we are OK cause we know and can take precautions!!! but **** anyone else that does not know and might get mugged etc....

BTW - Its a Luxor forum, so it gives local updates when possible :) people coming on holiday do everything to insure they have a good holiday, pack this and that in their suitcases, check what they should wear (if they need a coat etc) some check things out like the culture etc, they know they are going to a Muslim country and might want to learn the do's and dont's, they also might want to be informed on any incidents or places not to visit due to any unrest. your doing the same asking for information on "single women here" and that you "do not want unwanted attention". should we lie and not tell you the truth!!! :roll:

The only thing I agree on is "no where is 100% safe" :D
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by BENNU »

Robert Send wrote: ... I get many links sent to me showing beautiful places and temples and tourist places, nobody seems to report the terrible things that go on, especially in Luxor..
:tk Didn't someone send you an alarming video that you believe everyone else has received, so you don't feel the need to share?

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Teddyboy »

So, are you suggesting that all the tourists who want to come here would think that they are coming to some sort of 'free love' Shangri-La, were it not for the doom and gloom posts on Luxor4U? Do you really think that everyone out there is THAT stupid? I thought that I was pretty cynical when it came to tourists, but you're in a different league entirely!

Also, how many tourists are likely to be wandering around outlying villages in the middle of the night? Are those places on the 'tourist trail', I wonder? It's like someone visiting Liverpool for its cultural history, and suddenly finding themselves mixed up in an early hours drugs bust in Toxteth! (No disrespect to Toxteth or its inhabitants meant or inferred!)

With regards to the current bad news, were the tourist coach passengers actually aware of why they were stopped? Did they see civilians firing or carrying guns, or were they just told that there was a problem and that the road was closed?

(p.s. DJK, using the word f**k doesn't do anything to strengthen your argument, it just gets some people's backs up, mine included!)

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Bearded Brian »

Before the internet most of my overseas holidays were booked through Kuoni and they would send a destination guide which would include places not to visit, things to be aware of etc and suggested that the local rep should be contacted if you planned to go outside the resort area as they would have the local up to date information. For me the forum has replaced the local rep - regardless of which country I am visiting there has, so far, been a forum covering at least that country if not the actual town/city I'm visiting and this is the only one where member say such incidents shouldn't be reported. Seems to be a case of 'I'm alright Jack as I know what is happening but bugger any poor unsuspecting tourist'. What a selfish attitude.

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Bearded Brian »

For me and many other tourist being away from the tourist trail is part of my holiday

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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by DJKeefy »

Teddyboy wrote:So, are you suggesting that all the tourists who want to come here would think that they are coming to some sort of 'free love' Shangri-La, were it not for the doom and gloom posts on Luxor4U? Do you really think that everyone out there is THAT stupid? I thought that I was pretty cynical when it came to tourists, but you're in a different league entirely!

Also, how many tourists are likely to be wandering around outlying villages in the middle of the night? Are those places on the 'tourist trail', I wonder? It's like someone visiting Liverpool for its cultural history, and suddenly finding themselves mixed up in an early hours drugs bust in Toxteth! (No disrespect to Toxteth or its inhabitants meant or inferred!)

With regards to the current bad news, were the tourist coach passengers actually aware of why they were stopped? Did they see civilians firing or carrying guns, or were they just told that there was a problem and that the road was closed?

(p.s. DJK, using the word f**k doesn't do anything to strengthen your argument, it just gets some people's backs up, mine included!)

Maybe the word **** gets up your back the same like is gets up my back when you argue just for aguing sake.

Im in a different league cause I tell the truth and dont twist it so I can make some money like some do.

Did I say all tourists ? NO!!! HEY how many tourists have asked where is the BEACH here in Luxor, so you could say many are naive.

Where I go out to the village is not very far from Luxor and for your information ive seen many tourists around them area's mainly on push bikes (but ive seen a few just walking) NOT everyone wants to do the tourist trail, by the look of things it seems that quite a few people are wanting to explore these days off the tourist trail. BTW

I dont go to the village in the middle of the night like you say so your twisting it to your liking again (I might go to KZ in the middle of the night though)
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by shebs1964 »

I am not having a go a you DJK re you putting the news reports on this forum, but a few members who believe every little incident should be splashed across the world wide networks as proof of how bad luxor is. The information I am asking for is no different to the information I would ask for if I went to any other destination, local knowledge helps and I will not get that from world wide news but from people who live there. If I just read some of the news and listen to some reports I would not be coming to luxor, the same as I would not step out side my front door. Is it the case the world is more dangerous than before or that the news is easier to transmitt around the world and to get higher rating news channles hype everthing.
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by DJKeefy »

I would not say Luxor is BAD, but I would say that its changed big time from what it use to be, there is many incidents going on, plus many of the lads are quite boisterous now and dont seem to give a **** about anything. I never say its not safe, I say its not as safe as it was before. If you have been here before the revolution you will see a change now..

Dont worry about my banter with Teddyboy, Im sure he knows I respect him, I just want to argue back with him :lol:

If we only could get him to move a few yards from his flat, we might be able to release him from the twilight zone ;)

Wait for it... I can see a Cheeky Bugger posting from him :lol:
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by shebs1964 »

The good thing about this forum is you get all opinions and sometimes heated debate and hopefully reasoned argument, and hopefully by the end a balanced overall view. :)
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Re: Back to the debate of luxor safety!!!!!!!!

Post by Bearded Brian »

shebs1964 wrote:The good thing about this forum is you get all opinions and sometimes heated debate and hopefully reasoned argument, and hopefully by the end a balanced overall view. :)
So true.

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