Death of Mohammed Ali

[carrie]

I have never approved of boxing, just two men trying their hardest to hurt the other whilst hoards of "fans" spur them on.
Cassius Clay later known as Mohammed Ali though was in a different league, handsome, full of himself he gained my admiration when he refused to join in the war against Viet Nam.
He said his was the most recognizable face on the planet and I believe he was.
May he rest in Peace.

[Horus]

"He floated like a Butterfly"


"And stung like a Bee"


RIP Mohammed Ali a.k.a. Cassius Clay

[Scottishtourist]

I have never approved of boxing, just two men trying their hardest to hurt the other whilst hoards of "fans" spur them on.

Don't think many ever really "approved"of it Carrie.But..it became a "sport"and earned a helluva lot of people a helluva lot of money.
I also think that the opening up of boxing clubs took a lot of vicious "street-fighters"off the streets and encouraged and trained them to use their "skills" in a more competitive way.
However,you can take the vicious boy off the street,but sometimes you can never take the street away from the vicious boy!That was surely proven in the rape case against Mike Tyson,and on numerous other occasions where professional boxers have shown their true colours and reverted to the brutality they learned to survive.

Muhammed Ali(how I wish he'd kept his own name,Cassius Clay)was a phenomenon in his own right,a great ambassador for the sport.But alas,too many blows to the head will naturally result in brain damage or some form of mental,physical and or psychological condition.

He knew the risks and he gambled with his health.But for all that he was handsome and charismatic.
So..may he rest in peace.

[newcastle]

Muhammed Ali(how I wish he'd kept his own name,Cassius Clay.......

You have a problem with a man abandoning a name resonant with its slave origins and embracing islam?

Many held him up as an example of the benefits of that religion, in the way he conducted himself after becoming a muslim.

[Scottishtourist]

Muhammed Ali(how I wish he'd kept his own name,Cassius Clay.......

You have a problem with a man abandoning a name resonant with its slave origins and embracing islam?.

There's always ONE or TWO(probably MANY)on this forum who will nit-pick at everything I post.
NO newcastle..I don't have a problem with anyone embracing anything..but a helluva lot of you do seem to have a problem with MY religion!

Did he embrace Islam before or after his boxing career?
If after..then he has the perfect reason to proclaim Islam as a peace loving religion.
If before..then how did he justify the "savage"nature of boxing and re-concile the millions he made through it with His God,Allah?

[Stevepj]

Muhammed Ali(how I wish he'd kept his own name,Cassius Clay.......

You have a problem with a man abandoning a name resonant with its slave origins and embracing islam?

Many held him up as an example of the benefits of that religion, in the way he conducted himself after becoming a muslim.

I don't have a problem with him abandoning a name which is associated with slavery N, however he then the converted to a religion who's prophet took slaves from amongst POWs.

[newcastle]

I doubt anyone here gives a toss about YOUR religion ST. You are the only one who seems to raise the subject anywhere and everywhere. But since you have......

Muhammed Ali was a boxer both before his conversion to islam ( presumably he was some kind of Christian beforehand ) and subsequently. There are many Christian boxers and , no doubt, islamic ones too.

How do they reconcile sincere religious belief with a brutal "sport" ? I've no idea. How did the catholics of the 16th century reconcile burning someone alive for stating the earth reolves around the sun, rather than vice versa? How does the current catholic church reconcile the misery caused by unwanted pregnancies with their adament refusal to condone contraception?

How do boxers justify the wealth generated by their boxing profession? Hopefully they use it to good purpose. The Vatican has a fair amount of booty stuffed in its many churches and the palaces and museums of the Holy See. Booty plundered over centuriea and worth billions. How do they jusify it? Hopefully the day will come when they use this more effectively to diminish human suffering.....instead of adding to it with outdated dogmatic pronouncements .

[Scottishtourist]

There you go again!
You're never satisfied with an opinion..always have to "put the boot in."

I know more than anyone on here that no-one gives a stuff about my religion.Nor do I really give a stuff about theirs(or lack of!)

Why can't you just answer the bloomin question without resorting to your "bully-boy"tactics of proclaiming the stupidity of a fellow poster?Who follows a religion?

What did Muhammed Ali do with his millions?Did he give it all away to benefit the emancipation of Islam?
Did he keep it?He fought for it and deserved it..so he thus gave his family a more comfortable life?

We weren't talking about the Vatican or anything else here.You suddenly jumped on the bandwagon and misguidedly gave your comparisons.

Is it any wonder that this forum is dying a slow death and there's now only a dozen or so posters still contributing?

[newcastle]

It was you who raised the question of religion in relation to news of a dead boxer. What else was meant by the remark about name change?

Throughout many of your posts, and attendant ' likes', you affirm your belief in the superiority of YOUR religion as against others, or the absence of religion.

If you can't handle the ripostes I suggest you steer clear of the subject of religion altogether.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Many held him up as an example of the benefits of that religion, in the way he conducted himself after becoming a muslim.

I'm not referencing Islam (as an entity in its entirety) however Cassius Clay/Mohammed Ali converted to Islam via Louis Farrakhan who is known for his anti-white, anti-Semitic and homophobic stance and possibly/maybe (nothing conclusive but to some highly suspicious) implication that his rhetoric may have brought about the assassination of Malcolm X.

Not saying that Farrakhan wasn't entitled to say what he says and he has mellowed over the years greatly it was just that he didn't really follow a peace loving path so an eyebrow could be raised if one uses Islam and Farrakhan in the same breath.

I know nothing of the private life of Mohammed Ali and don't think I ever watched him pummel anybody in the ring either. All I'm saying is and we don't know what his real Islamic beliefs were. IF he followed Farrakhans path .... ??? but he also might have plough his own way too.

[carrie]

Maybe the time had something to do with it LLL racism was rife, especially in the deep south of the USA, when Cassius Clay returned from the Olympic games proudly clutching his gold medal he was still refused a table in the local restaurant because he was black. What surprises me is that more mistreated black people weren't radicalized back then.

[HEPZIBAH]

There's always ONE or TWO(probably MANY)on this forum who will nit-pick at everything I post.

[newcastle]

Many held him up as an example of the benefits of that religion, in the way he conducted himself after becoming a muslim.

I'm not referencing Islam (as an entity in its entirety) however Cassius Clay/Mohammed Ali converted to Islam via Louis Farrakhan who is known for his anti-white, anti-Semitic and homophobic stance and possibly/maybe (nothing conclusive but to some highly suspicious) implication that his rhetoric may have brought about the assassination of Malcolm X.

Not saying that Farrakhan wasn't entitled to say what he says and he has mellowed over the years greatly it was just that he didn't really follow a peace loving path so an eyebrow could be raised if one uses Islam and Farrakhan in the same breath.

I know nothing of the private life of Mohammed Ali and don't think I ever watched him pummel anybody in the ring either. All I'm saying is and we don't know what his real Islamic beliefs were. IF he followed Farrakhans path .... ??? but he also might have plough his own way too.

"I know nothing of the private life of Mohammed Ali...." so what is the point you're making ?

I suppose one thing you might have heard of was his refusal to fight in Vietnam....in the belief it contravened the tenets of islam.

He adopted orthodox islam in the 1970s and devoted much of his time after retirement to philanthropy and the civil rights movement. In 1998 he was made a United Nations Messenger of Peace and, in 2005, was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom .

All this while suffering from degenerative Parkinsons Disease.

[LovelyLadyLux]

"I know nothing of the private life of Mohammed Ali...." so what is the point you're making ?

MY POINT - Farrakhan was promoting a relatively "violent" anti-white, anti-Semitic, homophobic version of Islam. After his conversion he converted approximately 20,000 others. One would THINK as his own version of Islam smacked of violent rhetoric those he converted would think of it and follow it in the same vein. Many did.

MY POINT - maybe in his own private life Mohammed Ali had the same thoughts as the man who converted him (who knows?) however his public persona and acts were quiet different.

And yeah - I heard everything you've said.

@Carrie - I'm old enough to remember a segregated south. There was NOTHING positive about life there. Signs everywhere - 'whites only.' I don't think anybody was happy and everybody lived under a mantle of enforced compliance and non-stop discriminatory social rules and regulations. I have no idea why more black people didn't mass together and rebel either.

[newcastle]

"I know nothing of the private life of Mohammed Ali...." so what is the point you're making ?

MY POINT - Farrakhan was promoting a relatively "violent" anti-white, anti-Semitic, homophobic version of Islam. After his conversion he converted approximately 20,000 others. One would THINK as his own version of Islam smacked of violent rhetoric those he converted would think of it and follow it in the same vein. Many did.

Apparently. ... Muhammed Ali didn't.

MY POINT - maybe in his own private life Mohammed Ali had the same thoughts as the man who converted him (who knows?) however his public persona and acts were quiet different.

MAYBE , in his private life, his thoughts centred on violence, homophobia and anti-semitism..
Possibly paedophilia and Satanism too. Who knows?

Isn't what men DO a more reliable indication of what sort of person they are rather than surmising what they may or may not have thought?

And yeah - I heard everything you've said.

@Carrie - I'm old enough to remember a segregated south. There was NOTHING positive about life there. Signs everywhere - 'whites only.' I don't think anybody was happy and everybody lived under a mantle of enforced compliance and non-stop discriminatory social rules and regulations. I have no idea why more black people didn't mass together and rebel either.

[Dusak]

I thought that you had said your final farewell ST? But I suppose a boxing post would encourage you into the ring for a fight.

Anyway, back to what is really sad, the loss of a truly great sports man. As a young man I never had any interest in boxing, but would always watch this man when in the ring, a great fighter, a great entertainer and a good contributor to charities around the world.