Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his body

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by HEPZIBAH » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:03 am

A-Four wrote:I suppose it's like these Forums in a way, I notice often that some people have hidden agendas and it easy to detect after a while,...
So true A-Four. Indeed possibly one of your truer comments yet. :roll:

(Where's that tongue in cheek smilie when you need it!)


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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by Horus » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:19 am

HEPZIBAH wrote:
A-Four wrote:I suppose it's like these Forums in a way, I notice often that some people have hidden agendas and it easy to detect after a while,...
So true A-Four. Indeed possibly one of your truer comments yet. :roll:

(Where's that tongue in cheek smilie when you need it!)
And a classic example of "if the cap fits, wear it"
What a home goal :a11: :)))
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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by Horus » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:52 am

A-Four wrote:
Horus wrote:And your point is?
My point is ,........certain people, organisations, and media outlets have their own secret agenda for getting their 'message' across especially on the Internet. For example, Freedomhouse.org gets between 60 to 80% of its finances from the U.S. Treasury. With regards the Huffingtonpost, I think most people will find it rather difficult to find out who actually really owns it.

I suppose my point here is that most people believe what they read in the media, and in the past that has been so, today in the fast moving 24 hour internet news service, we have to look carefully who is behind it.
Lets have some evidence to back up your last couple of statements A4
How do you arrive at the figure of 60% to 80% for US treasury funding for Freeedomhouse.org? Please give your source for this figure.

Freedom House describes itself as non-partisan and broad-based, "a clear voice for democracy and freedom around the world." It was founded nearly sixty years ago by Eleanor Roosevelt and Wendell Willkie, plus other Americans concerned with the mounting threats to peace and democracy, Freedom House has been a vigorous proponent of democratic values and a steadfast opponent of dictatorships of the far left and the far right.
It was an outspoken advocate of the Marshall Plan and NATO in the 1940s, the U.S. civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s, the Vietnam boat people in the 1970s, Poland's Solidarity movement and the Filipino democratic opposition in the 1980s, and supported the many democracies that emerged around the world in the 1990s. Freedom House has vigorously opposed dictatorships in Central America, Chile and apartheid in South Africa, the suppression of the Prague Spring, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, genocide in Bosnia and Rwanda, and the brutal violation of human rights in Cuba, Burma, China, and Iraq. It has championed the rights of democratic activists, religious believers, trade unionists, journalists, and proponents of free markets.
So there we have it, an organisation that in your book needs to be watched and has a hidden agenda and subversive US treasury funding.

As to the Huffington Post, no mystery there, it is owned by AOL and is in fact a ‘news aggregator’ which means it gathers its news from everywhere on the web and from all available sources such as news feeds, online newspapers, blogs, videos and podcasts, so where is the mystery in that?
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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by HEPZIBAH » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:10 am

Horus wrote:
As to the Huffington Post, no mystery there, it is owned by AOL and is in fact a ‘news aggregator’ which means it gathers its news from everywhere on the web and from all available sources such as news feeds, online newspapers, blogs, videos and podcasts, so where is the mystery in that?
Oh! A bit like me then. I shall now add 'News Aggregator' to my CV. :a59:
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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by newcastle » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:30 am

Of course, the line taken by the current regime is that ALL the reports in the media dwelling on 'negative' aspects of Egypt are the product of propagandists in the pay of "foreign sources" seeking to undermine the regime with exaggerations, half-truths and lies.

And for those unable to maintain a dignified silence on the matter, it never hurts to toe the government line. :urm:

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by Hafiz » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:48 pm

A4our – I ‘enjoy’ our accidental coincidence of opinion, love not entirely relevant detail and don’t mind a bit of speculation - but on this you go too far. :)

Are you seriously suggesting that MI6 recruits foreign juvenile nationals – Italians – to spy for Her Majesty’s much diminished dominions? Maybe you do and think they are immediately sent into the field. If only life/spy craft were so simple. An Italian/English would be not be hidden in plain sight!

Your friends at al Shorouk have come up with an even more convoluted variation on this theme: “Earlier that week (March), Al-Shorouk also published an article linking Regeni to Italian intelligence services and saying that they found the names and numbers of Egyptian opposition figures on Regeni’s laptop and that he was believed to be sharing the information with a British company linked to intelligence.” Italian intelligence helping English companies and spooks. Some people will believe anything.

You have further support for your views. Al Wafd believes 90 Egyptian based organizations work for foreign intelligence and the Egyptian TV performer Moussa believes the UK Ambassador worked for intelligence – and wants Prime Minister May to travel ‘in disguise’ to Egypt to check the situation out for herself. A useful list of related and fresh Egyptian conspiracy theories is at: http://www.madamasr.com/sections/politi ... nspiracies

As far as being a spy - what fool would send a kid to foment trouble in the supine/comatose/disorganized Egyptian labor movement – and with what purpose. He was a kid with an agenda, probably egged on by his Egypt-absent (former AUC employee) supervisor – he did not have spy-craft, a gun or money. Egypt used to be full of these types - they were called international NGO workers. Most of them have ‘gone’ home.

It is odd that his nominal work would have aroused much interest or, if it did, they could have expelled him like others. Other international researchers are working in this area ‘Gilbert Achcar, Giulio’s academic supervisor at London’s School of Oriental and African Studies wrote: “I personally know several other students in various universities who have worked or are presently working on PhD theses on the topic of the Egyptian labor movement. That is to say that there was absolutely nothing extraordinary in Giulo Regeni’s research.’
https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/who ... -in-egypt/ (not a good article). In addition his work was with the street vendors union (others say also the tax collectors union) which Reuters describes as ‘not overtly political’.

You may not need to be a spook to get this treatment. The bland truth is maybe that thousands are similarly treated and the only surprising thing in this matter is the 220 page Italian forensic report which refutes every Egyptian statements that he was killed by gangsters/terrorists/motor vehicle accident/a robbery/lovers feud/killed by terrorists in the style of the intelligence services to frame the latter/killed by a rival intelligence agency to smear Sisi/killed to disrupt relations with Italy. The last mentioned of these madnesses has been put about by the President. http://www.madamasr.com/sections/politi ... ocal-press. Some 'locals' even tried to smear him as gay - until the girlfriend and other female lovers emerged.

Meanwhile there are north of 40,000 political prisoners in jail without trial and recent reports in other posts on this site state the hell has been bashed out of some of them. There are also newspaper reports about the withdrawal of medical support to prisoners (except to Mubarak). In addition there is no systematic coronial procedure in Egypt where deaths, in this case in custody, are independently examined. A request from a relative for an independent coroner can be refused even where you offer to pay for it. http://www.madamasr.com/sections/politi ... close-case

If you die in jail, or anywhere else, no-one is going to independently determine cause of death. The courts will not offer protection. One dead Italian is one thing but there are so many others for whom no-one speaks.

The National Council for Human Rights (NCHR), a state-affiliated rights organization is responsible for reporting to government on torture and deaths in custody. Its recent report says that three died in the past year. They also stated that there were no suspicious disappearances. Others such as the NGO Nadeem Centre say closer to 474 Egyptians died at the hands of security forces and over 600 people were tortured while in detention in 2015 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-22/e ... er/7187944 which might explain why the Health Ministry has closed their office down in February for planning/permit issues. http://www.madamasr.com/news/national-r ... nces-egypt They also reported 29 enforced disappearances in August. Others, including Amnesty, put the figures much higher. For those interested in more the novel ‘The Queue’ by Basma Abdel Aziz (the psychiatrist founder of Nadeem) is likened by western critics to Orwell’s ‘1984’. http://www.mhpbooks.com/books/the-queue/

A4our its all very simple and happening, in a routine way, to hundreds every day and in front of everyone’s eyes. There is nothing secret about any of it – except the names of those responsible. If there is a conspiracy its about that.

A partial view of local ‘ disappearances’ is at: https://egyptianchronicles.blogspot.com ... m-all.html. Amnesty’s view as at the middle of this year is at: http://www.amnesty.org.au/news/comments/42113/ and a very recent view by the local Egyptian Commission for Rights and Freedoms is at: http://www.ec-rf.org/?p=1648. Many of the disappeared never reappear.

For those who want more (very good): http://www.reuters.com/investigates/spe ... pt-regeni/
And the article Regeni wrote for an Italian Communist daily about going to an independent trade union meeting in December (its very gushy, romantic, propagandistic and not at all analytical). http://ilmanifesto.global/in-egypt-seco ... de-unions/
His reference to ‘revolutionary period of 2011-2013’ is very odd and ‘Many of these privatizations after the 2011 revolution have been brought before the courts, which have often nullified them’ is not accurate and ‘The unions’ defiance of the state of emergency’ is just plain wrong – the last emergency was in 2013. His friends and colleagues say he was a near genius but this article is full of holes. In the words of his advisor in Egypt he was“steering clear of anything political” – don’t think so.

There is a conspiracy/cover up but I think its not external.

AFour - Sorry about the overkill - maybe I need a straw man. Still friends I hope. :oops:

Dusak - I disagree that the story is difficult to get hold of or that speculation reigns (not your words). Try the Reuters special report above although it is now a bit out of date - but not in any way which prejudices the government's 'case'.

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by newcastle » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:47 pm

Well Hafiz, that's made Horus' comments look positively anodyne :lol:

Will we be seeing you anytime soon? ;)

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by A-Four » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:47 pm

Really is nice for you to show an interest in a debate here Hafiz, otherwise I would certainly leave these three to look, as usual, for the eye themselves, though I'm sure you may agree, even in the matinee performances, there is a little chance of anyone finding it.

Glad to say that like some others, there is life away from here, hope to write more tomorrow. :wi .

P.S. - I would enjoy dealing with you in debate Hafiz, as I know there is no ill feeling on either party, while you may notice others on here feel that,.........well like others, I am sure you understand what I mean. I choose these days to ignore them, but remember, like going to see a comedian in a theatre, you never challenge the star act, they hold the mic, if you get my drift here, so expect anything to be rubbed out long before you see it. :wi .

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by Horus » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:18 am

Spouting your usual rubbish again A4? Er, if you get my drift, but then again I couldn't possibly comment, but I will write about it later and as I said on the 14th of August nineteen canteen, blah blah blah from a special confidant who I cannot name for security reasons, but who workes illegally doing you know what, nudge nudge, ;) ;)
:a86:
Edit: Oh I see you decided to delete your diatribe A4
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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by A-Four » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:17 am

Hello Hafiz, it really is good to hear from you, and although you seem to think I do not agree with you on one or two matters that you write above, I shall come back to, perhaps later today or tomorrow.

You will forgive me now though I hope, while I deal with earlier posts from other members.

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by A-Four » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:34 am

Horus wrote:
A-Four wrote:
Horus wrote:And your point is?
My point is ,........certain people, organisations, and media outlets have their own secret agenda for getting their 'message' across especially on the Internet. For example, Freedomhouse.org gets between 60 to 80% of its finances from the U.S. Treasury. With regards the Huffingtonpost, I think most people will find it rather difficult to find out who actually really owns it.

I suppose my point here is that most people believe what they read in the media, and in the past that has been so, today in the fast moving 24 hour internet news service, we have to look carefully who is behind it.
Lets have some evidence to back up your last couple of statements A4
How do you arrive at the figure of 60% to 80% for US treasury funding for Freeedomhouse.org? Please give your source for this figure.
Any organisation will describe its self under what ever bright light it can find, but when we start looking for a more independent view of the books, then things can look a whole lot different.

Wikipedia quote. - 'As of 2010, grants awarded from the U.S. Government accounted for most of Freedom House's funding'.


Hopefully, I shall be back on here later today to deal with The Huffingtonpost.

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by Horus » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:29 am

Hopefully, I shall be back on here later today to deal with The Huffingtonpost.
I wouldn't bother if that is as good as your evidence gets :urm:
And it would hardly matter if they were 100% funded, it has no bearing on that organisation in the way that you are trying to imply in your post.
Their aim is clear and simple as laid out above with the examples I have given you, so even if what you claim funding wise was true, all it would prove is that America supported freedom and democracy all over the world and opposed human rights abuses, so where is your evidence that they are involved in subversive activities and a tool of the American government?

"You should also use the full Wiki quote if you are going to use it to support your argument:
As of 2010, grants awarded from the US government accounted for most of Freedom House's funding; the grants were not earmarked by the government but allocated through a competitive process"
In other words they are an N.G.O. and have to compete for the funding.

Anyone who wants to read the article about Freedom House can make up their own minds here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House

But once again you have managed to swerve the conversation from the original topic of human rights abuse in Egypt to there being some ulterior motive by a respectable organisation with a proven track record. The two references for human rights abuse in Egypt were just two of many many more that could be cited if required, so discrediting any of them would hardly vindicate your argument, it is a fact, many reports say so, or are you saying that everything is all sweetness and light?

How often have we heard you warning everyone to watch what they are saying in Egypt, of how the 'Amdowla' are always watching, or be careful what you say on this forum et al. Why would this be so if even you yourself believed there was no danger of being victimised for your actions?
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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by A-Four » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:47 am

Horus wrote:
"You should also use the full Wiki quote if you are going to use it to support your argument:
As of 2010, grants awarded from the US government accounted for most of Freedom House's funding; the grants were not earmarked by the government but allocated through a competitive process"
In other words they are an N.G.O. and have to compete for the funding.
...................and I suppose having the likes of past board members such as Donald Rumsfeld, would not have helped in obtaining such money,"...............you will also find that in Wiki too.

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by Horus » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:25 am

A-Four wrote:
Horus wrote:
"You should also use the full Wiki quote if you are going to use it to support your argument:
As of 2010, grants awarded from the US government accounted for most of Freedom House's funding; the grants were not earmarked by the government but allocated through a competitive process"
In other words they are an N.G.O. and have to compete for the funding.
...................and I suppose having the likes of past board members such as Donald Rumsfeld, would not have helped in obtaining such money,"...............you will also find that in Wiki too.
I was very busy yesterday so sorry for a late reply, but again I see you have answered none of my original questions, quite what Donald Rumsfeld and the abuse of human rights in Egypt have in common I really don’t know. Again I repeat that you are constantly warning anyone who will listen that they should be carefull of what they say and write because the security forces are always watching, why would you do that if there was no chance of a knock on your door and a fast trip to Cairo? you have said as much in other posts that you have made. As for the Wiki link, remember that it was I who gave the link so that others could read the complete article instead of a short quote that you posted from Wiki.Seems to me that you often accuse others of researching from Wiki, but make great use of it yourself. 8)
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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by A-Four » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:45 pm

Now that Freedomhouse.org has been digested, let us make some speed, before going back to deal with some rather quite strongly worded comments here.

At the age of 16, a young girl arrived I the U.K. from Greece by the name of Mss Stassinopoulou. She, believe it or not completed her education at Girton College Cambridge, studied economics amongst other things. As time went by this lady would show on rather intellectual programs on both B.B.C. TV or radio, with the likes of Malcolm Mugridge or more importantly, in our case, Bernard Levin who started a rather unhealthy relationship with this dear young lady, a sort of a 'call me daddy', - anyhow let's not go there.

Between then and her attempt to claim fame in a California Governor election, she acquired very extreme right wing credentials similar to those of the then sitting governor - Gray Davis, there was a furious T.V debate by these two, who politically were very similar. Suddenly, and with little notice the American version of 'man in white suit' appears, (some of you might remember The Hamilton.) in the form of Mr Arnold Schwarzenegger,.........the rest is history.

After this, our dear lady friend begun to change her somewhat rather vulgar (even for America) political views, and out of the blue got married and became Mss Arianna Huffington, who, yes you've guessed it, went on to co-founder The Huffington Post. To her surprise, some years later her husband came out as being gay, (nothing wrong there in my opinion) though his wife's opinion on gay people was some what startling in the past, to say the least. I would have thought that our dear lady here would have had at least a couple of encounters with Sandi Tokzsvig (or Toxic, as she was known) during her old dormitory days at Girton College.

Anyhow, swiftly moving on,...........Well, life moves on as they say, and Mss Huffington became rather friendly with another member of the Levin family (remember Daddy) this time "Gerry" Levin, the highly respected owner of AOL, she persuaded him to buy Huffington Post, even though he had already made the most dreadful corporate mistakes in history, when he bought TimeLife

"Gerry" Levin and in fact the whole family were world renowned for fairness and respectability, and so was AOL. Today this organisation is no longer the institution it once was, in fact even with the aid of Wiki, the average person is going to find it rather difficult as to who now owns AOL. It certainly not The Verizon Group, but another one, that also deals in $100's Billions each,.......but has no real name.

P.S. - They make an awful lot of guns and bullets, but do not have the fodder to use them, so they may want to persuade YOU.

P.P.S. - Propaganda - The greatest weapon in War.

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by A-Four » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:03 pm

HEPZIBAH wrote:
Horus wrote:
As to the Huffington Post, no mystery there, it is owned by AOL and is in fact a ‘news aggregator’ which means it gathers its news from everywhere on the web and from all available sources such as news feeds, online newspapers, blogs, videos and podcasts, so where is the mystery in that?
Oh! A bit like me then. I shall now add 'News Aggregator' to my CV. :a59:

So much for AOL and being a 'News Aggregator' and being independent.

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by newcastle » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:55 pm

A-Four wrote:
HEPZIBAH wrote:
Horus wrote:
As to the Huffington Post, no mystery there, it is owned by AOL and is in fact a ‘news aggregator’ which means it gathers its news from everywhere on the web and from all available sources such as news feeds, online newspapers, blogs, videos and podcasts, so where is the mystery in that?
Oh! A bit like me then. I shall now add 'News Aggregator' to my CV. :a59:

So much for AOL and being a 'News Aggregator' and being independent.
What, exactly, has your meandering tittle-tattle got to do with Horus' statement that Huffington Post is a news aggregator? Anything at all?

Incidentally ( although I got bored with it after the first few sentences) your tedious tale contains some questionable "details" :

Although Bernard Levin is referred to in Wikipedia as a relative of Jerry (Gerald M.) Levin....I rather doubt it . (Distant at best....and wholly irrelevant)

Sandi Toksvig is 8 years younger than Arianna Huffington and unlikely to have encountered her in a Cambridge dormitory. But, again, irrelevant

AOL IS wholly owned by Verizon....at least according to the company's 2015 accounts, audited by Ernst & Young.

Perhaps these accountants are also part of the conspiracy to delude the world with false news regarding Egypt's record on human rights. :urm:

In his post, Hafiz gave several more sources reporting on the human rights situation in Egypt. All pretty damning. Care to try and undermine them?
Last edited by newcastle on Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by Horus » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:04 pm

More crap and twaddle to avoid answering the question, Huffington Post & Freedom.org have bugger all to do with the point being put across, you are just using them as a smoke screen, I could have cited a few dozen other sources, but just chose those two as examples of where the information of Egypts human rights record could be obtained. If those two sources have an agenda against Egypt then every other source must be the same and there are dozens to pick from. The bottom line is DO YOU BELIEVE THAT EGYPT HAS A GOOD HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD? simple question and if you do then why do you constantly warn people to be careful what they say regarding the regime?
The only person buying into the propaganda is you! 8)
Edit: typed up prior to Newcastles lates post.
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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by Hafiz » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:17 pm

God - what does one need to do to keep people on topic.

Greek female media millionaires - what is this relevant to, except Wall Street.

Freedomhouse - who cares - it could be a center of crippled lesbian separatist leftism for all I care. Its not.

The issue is not bias or funding - but what is the consensus on what is happening in Egypt.

Here is some more 'stuff' - all communist/Rumsfeld rot:

The New Times has always claimed it has witnesses to Regini being arrested in the street and three sources to prove he was taken into detention.. Three Egyptian intelligence officials and three police sources told Reuters that Regeni was detained by police and transferred to a compound run by Homeland Security on the day his friends say he disappeared. http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/giu ... d29a2e8eb8.

The government tried the gangster story (gangsters killed him) and claimed they arrested two gangsters and killed another four (or five if you count the driver a person unrelated to the others) associated with the murder. In March they arrested four relatives of the five dead ‘gangsters’. The police claimed the relatives had Regeni’s passport and wallet. Nothing seems to have resulted from these killings and arrests.

Even the killing of the gangsters story is falling apart with witnesses now saying they were unarmed painters killed by police with machine guns. The dead weren’t cleanskins but never robbers, thiefs or kidnappers. Tellingly, their relatives claim that the dead accused were in the Delta on the day Regeni disappeared. Why would robbers torture? Why would anyone believe this rot? http://www.voanews.com/a/killing-of-5-e ... 11435.html.

The Italian media is now claiming that they ‘have obtained’ access to incriminating telephone records http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07 ... yptian-po/ - (maybe a helpful security service) and La Republica has published the name of an Egyptian high official, with a previous conviction for torture, (some say murder) who they believe responsible http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/giulio-regeni- ... re-1553429. Whether that high official was part of the murder or is just part of the investigation – or both - gets a bit confusing. http://www.madamasr.com/news/officer-in ... ure-murder. What is clear is that, following his conviction, he was promoted. He is now front and central in the Italian case and his past is not irrelevant.

The details of that historical case show the level of brutality, lies and cover-up prevalent at that time: ‘in September 1999, when he was a police lieutenant colonel (now a Major General) in the Montazah district of the Mediterranean coastal city of Alexandria.

He and three other officers were accused of torturing to death Farid Shawqi Abdel-Al, a man they had detained on suspicion of breaking into and robbing a house, according to court documents obtained by the AP and two lawyers who represented Abdel-Al-Tarek Khater, who works for the Human Rights Center for Assisting Prisoners, and Mahmoud Albakry Alafifi.

The accused officers claimed that during his arrest, Abdel-Al wrested away from them and beat his own head against a metal pole, threatening to commit suicide if they detained him, and later died of his injuries, according to the court documents.

A lower court first acquitted the four, but prosecutors appealed, and in January 2003 the cassation court ordered a retrial. In the second trial, the now Major General and two others were convicted and the fourth was acquitted. One of the three (the now Major General) was also convicted of falsifying records concerning the timing of his arrest to support their story.

Police officers forced the family to hurriedly bury the body under guard by security forces, according to prosecution documents. But prosecutors had the body disinterred and the autopsy found Abdel-Al had been beaten on his face with fists and a heavy object and was strangled by hand, the documents say.’ http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 126030.cms
He got a one year suspended sentence.

He was also on duty when Khaled Saeed, an Alexandrian youth who in 2010 was beaten to death by police outside a cafe. Police initially claimed that Saeed suffocated to death after trying to swallow drugs during his arrest — until photos emerged of his body showing his face brutally disfigured by beating.

The Italian reports are a lot more detailed than the English but quote anonymous sources.

There is also a vague smell in the early comments of his Cambridge supporters that he might have wandered off topic and looked into the al-Nahda Square and the Rabaa al-Adawiya Square ‘incidents’. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/ne ... ound-egypt. That he was off agenda is confirmed by a union representative who spoke to him but won’t reveal the nature of his questions http://en.aswatmasriya.com/news/details ... wt.twitter. – although there was an earlier example of a witness who wanted to ‘help’ Egypt and reputable reports state that this person was a regular informer and had a dispute with Giulio about wanting a phone and overseas travel. Pure speculation, but these ‘incidents’ are still a very sensitive issue in Egypt. Reuters reports that he may have been investigation Army economic interests – also a sensitive issue. I

There is one report in the Italian version of La Repubblica that the president of the board of directors of the Egyptian Commission for Rights and Freedoms, who was assisting the Regeni family, was arrested in April for ‘incitement to violence to overthrow the government, membership in a "terrorist" group, and promotion of 'terrorism'. http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2016/04 ... 138506446/. A garbled local report in translation is at: http://www.ec-rf.org/?p=1445 He has been released on bail in the past few days.

There is another agenda. To what extent are aliens monitored, what is the role of informers and what role does technology play (another post0. This case illustrates a number of points about the physical monitoring of aliens.

It’s a bit difficult to know to what level all, and I mean all, Europeans are monitored. In this case the admissions are striking: “I always found him (Regeni) at the Ahmed Hilmi market surrounded by lots of vendors, talking and laughing with them, and half the vendors are police informants.”…” Colonel Mamdouh Samir, the Shubra station chief, strenuously denies that Giulio visited the market. “Officers are always present there,” he said. “If he had gone to the market, I would have been personally informed.” General Bassem al-Shaarawi, the chief of the Azbakiya station, says virtually the same thing: “He did not come to the market or the station. We have cameras everywhere. For him to enter the station and us to conceal his entrance would be impossible.”

So this seems to mean that the police are aware of all Europeans visiting crowded markets. Really. Don't they have better things to do.

Could Egypt be so paranoid and so over-policed? In 2011 the Interior Ministry employed about 2,000,000 people but not all of those would have been employed in security/policing. http://time.com/4285659/giulio-regeni-i ... der-egypt/. Of course there are other interpretations – including that the police brag in the press and overstate their capacity to monitor outsiders.

Do aliens in Egypt feel they are monitored? Well not on the beach or doing other 'touristic' things. Are there thousands of informants when westerners go 'off-agenda'?

Overall there is still a mystery. If he was a trouble maker - expel him. Why seize him and torture him? Maybe he knew something really sensitive?
Last edited by Hafiz on Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Italian guy had mysterious 'letters' carved into his bod

Post by newcastle » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:45 pm

According to Wikipedia :

The Ministry of Interior directs the Central Security Forces, around 410,000 in 2012; the National Police, around 500,000; and the Egyptian Homeland security, around 200,000 strong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_ ... or_(Egypt)

That's an impressive number in a population of 90 million. ....and is possibly significantly higher now than in 2012.

One of the puzzling aspects - and I've seen it raised in defence of the claim by the security apparatus that they had nothing to do with Regeni's death - is that would they have murdered a foreign national and left his body on a highway to be found with unmistakeable signs of torture? It would have been a simple matter to dispose of a body in Egypt's extensive deserts where it would never be found.

Could they really be so careless - or so convinced of their impunity?

No doubt there is more to emerge in this saga.

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