Abuse of Animals

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Abuse of Animals

Post by Hafiz » Mon May 20, 2019 3:08 pm

Abuse of Animals.

I hadn't realized that posting links to videos would lead to unpleasant images appearing in this post. Its the only way I know to post the link but don't read any further if you have fragile responses to bad human behavior to animals.

The NYT has a new major article on what everyone knows goes on in Giza and Luxor to horses and donkeys. Nothing seems to change. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/worl ... collection

Here is the latest video of barbaric mistreatment.

Common sense that harsh treatment of animals is self defeating in terms of the animals ability to work doesn’t sink in.

The specific teachings in the Koran from The Prophet himself are ignored – along with much other inconvenient good sense in that book however the Copts have none of the western teachings from St Francis and others which would control their tempers. On the other hand the Copts are ‘meticulous’ on rituals, fasting and anything that involves rigid rules about moral irrelevancies – a ‘feature’ found in most Orthodox ‘religions’ in the Middle East.

The Prophet was principally a vegetarian and is quoted as saying: "Fear God in regards to these animals who cannot speak their will,". The Quran also says "He who takes pity even on a sparrow and spares its life, God will be merciful to him on the Day of Judgement."

There are more Qur'anic suras or verses advocating kindness to animals than there are on female "modesty" but modern Muslims choose to spotlight one and not the other – something that frequently happens in the muddled, self-serving and fractured theology that is Islam. https://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture ... s-1.635674

Cruel behaviou in Egypt is much broader than the tourist trade. Australia used to export beef and lamb in the hundreds of millions $ to Egypt but gave up. First our outrage on mistreatment. Second a grant from us to rebuild an abattoir and train staff to solve the problem then third another atrocity which revolted our PM and the very farmers who exported. We, then and now, sell nothing to Egypt and could not care less. In this country the good treatment of animals is good business sense as well as good morality.

The Australian NGO Animals Australia funded a female ex Federal police officer to go underground in Egyptian abattoirs with a hidden camera in 2006 leading to ‘You wont see worse examples of animal cruelty than this, admits Australia’s Agricultural Minister, Peter McGauran (a cattle/cow farmer in his private life). First the cattle is stabbed in the eye, then its back tendons are slashed to stop it escaping.” a video of a national Australian TV program on this matter including expert commentary from Professors at leading UK universities. I suggest you be cautious.

Other and worse illustrations which also show chaos and mismanagement in their abattoir work generally that suggest animal cruelty is only part of unbelievable mismanagement, poor training, no accountability for mistakes. There are 3-5 children about 6 years of age watching the vile bad behavior and keenly filming it on their own phones to ‘enjoy’ it later. The training of the next generation in barbarism looks clear because their parents must have agreed for these kids to be in this blood soaked and dangerous work environment.

A video showing the state of the art abattoir in Sokhna the Australian taxpayer funded one between 2006-2010 together with training to improve the situation. Almost immediately after the trade recommenced in 2010 the animal abuse re-commenced, Australian public opinion was revolted and our government stopped the trade. Its still stopped and no company dares risk its reputation in the Egypt trade. Not an attractive view.

Nowadays live animal exports into Egypt come mainly from South America and India where public opinion is not offended by barbaric behavior but public opinion is starting to hot up in Brazil. https://www.theland.com.au/story/507783 ... -campaign/

An aside, Brazil and India both have Foot and Mouth and Mad Cow Diseases so importing these cattle from those locations carries risks to animals and people and you wonder which Supreme Militarios is agreeing to these imports or doing the meticulous inspection of animals once they arrive – following 40 days in quarantine. My guess is that no one is doing anything in Egypt to protect its people or its animal industry from infection from imported diseases. What’s your guess?.

If you want to increase your chances of Mad Cow Disease eat beef in Egypt.

In Egypt they have enough problems all of which they deal with poorly and in 2012 1 million cattle were put down with the introduced Foot and Mouth disease inflicted on themselves by sourcing from dangerous locations. Eire is dangling for beef sales but my guess is that one or two barbarities will close that down.

It seems the Army (not the Departments of Agriculture or Food) has now muscled out all the private meat importing companies, dominates imports and applies its agricultural, international trade and veterinary skills (none) to this industry it now controls. If people or cattle die or infect Egyptians I’m sure it will accept responsibility. https://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN ... 1-2016.pdf (An official US government document)

I’ve noticed that poor treatment of animals is broader that the tourist trade and butchery trade and that farmers mistreat animals in cruel ways that fulfill no practical purpose.

To me this barbarism is quite widespread and even includes the poorly attended/trained ‘poodles’ of the Egyptian rich.



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Re: Abuse of Animals

Post by Who2 » Tue May 21, 2019 3:52 pm

I can report I have never abused any animals even a sheep, called nos 7.
But I have killed a few, mostly I've eaten them except for the odd dog...
It's called 'the great eating if someone want's to 'top me, creep up behind me and put one in my head,
when I least expect, I to have feelings you know!

The other day I saw on that Luxor 'friends site someone moaning about some vet killing their cat,
another said: Ace killed their dog.
Everybody that buys in a supermarket should be made to visit an abattoir once in their early life span.
People could accuse me of killing patients now and again when I was a paramedic, I/we were doing our best, pricks!.... 8)

Ps: 'Have you never noticed that Butcher's can be a strange breed of human ?
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

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Re: Abuse of Animals

Post by Hafiz » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:53 am

Agree about the visits but not to an Egyptian. In the last few decades most western abattoir's have been improved hugely although the Halal systems of slitting the throat have been tolerated in the west for too long.

Part of the Australian exports to the ME used be for end of Ramadan feasts where some urban idiot father would slaughter a lamb in front of the family - how impotently masculine. Thank god we no longer sell a kilo to that part of the world.

My local butcher with his own smoking house and system of aging beef is an ebullient and charming creature but possibly a minority of one in this trade.

With Brazil beef I did not make my point clear enough - eat at your own risk if you have suicidal tendencies.

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Re: Abuse of Animals

Post by newcastle » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:09 am

Coincidentally, Eid el Adha is 12th August this year....the date we Brits let loose on grouse.

I shall be in London, hamdulillah, ......where there is little likelihood of being disturbed by bleating sheep/goats awaiting slaughter or 12-bores scattering flocks of overfed game birds.

Eid el Adha is truly a horrible time to be in Egypt if you have any sensibilities towards animal suffering.

Sheep/goats may not be the most intelligent of animals but you can’t help but feel that, being crammed into pens overnight and then hearing or seeing your compatriots dragged out to have their throats slit (sometimes not too effectively), is a terrifying experience.

Last year I stayed indoors, fingers in ears, while my family went through the ceremonies a few metres away.

Never again. :(

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Re: Abuse of Animals

Post by Horus » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:28 am

Most humans eat meat, we have to accept that, but at the very least the animal should be dispatched in the quickest most humane method possible by people skilled in the job and under close monitoring. They should not be part of some ritual killing for religious reasons that takes no account for the distress it may cause the animal being slaughtered.
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Re: Abuse of Animals

Post by newcastle » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:21 am

Arguments will continue over whether throat-slitting is the most humane way of dispatching an animal. In practical terms, and provided it’s carried out by an expert with a very sharp knife, I believe it to be no worse than other kinds of termination.

Putting an animal to sleep, and then dispatching it, is hardly practicable in the field of human meat consumption.....although, of course, it’s what vets do....and the state executioners in USA.

But where I have concerns is that the prevalence of throat slitting has little to do with humane killing or efficiency. It’s a throwback to ancient beliefs and customs which, along with public executions, bear-baiting, bull fighting etc have no place in the modern world.

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Re: Abuse of Animals

Post by carrie » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:26 am

A few years ago I was invited to go for the day to celebrate Eid El Adha. My friends father had purchased three lambs some months earlier to raise and fatten ready for the feast. Those animals were fussed over and cared for incredibly.
Come the day of the slaughter I was asked if I wanted to see the animals being killed. No I didn't. Then I changed my mind yes I would watch. It was an experience that I would never repeat and I wanted to know what happened.
The three sheep were lined up and special men came who prayed over the sheep and then proceeded to kill them. First sheep, whilst the others looked on, they slit it's throat. It seemed to take ages for the animal to die. Meanwhile the other two were terrified. The smell of blood, the sight of it pouring out of the neck of the dying sheep. The poor animals saw it all.
Then a pump was inserted into the dead sheep and it was blown up like a balloon, this is to make the skinning of the animal easier I was told. By this time I had had enough. Eventually all the sheep were dead, skinned and chopped up by an axe. Lumps of meat where thrown into a big bowl, the meat was still twitching.
Horrible experience one I will never forget but I am glad I saw it. I am a meat eater not a lot but I do enjoy it. I had never given much thought before to the manner of an animals death before I ate it. Something we all should do.

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Re: Abuse of Animals

Post by Mad Dilys » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:10 pm

newcastle wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:21 am
Arguments will continue over whether throat-slitting is the most humane way of dispatching an animal. In practical terms, and provided it’s carried out by an expert with a very sharp knife, I believe it to be no worse than other kinds of termination.

Putting an animal to sleep, and then dispatching it, is hardly practicable in the field of human meat consumption.....although, of course, it’s what vets do....and the state executioners in USA.

But where I have concerns is that the prevalence of throat slitting has little to do with humane killing or efficiency. It’s a throwback to ancient beliefs and customs which, along with public executions, bear-baiting, bull fighting etc have no place in the modern world.
I do wish that people would acknowledge the difference between religion and custom.

I used to raise cattle, goats, sheep and pigs. I'd take them to be slaughtered, collect the carcases and butcher them myself for direct sale as meat. People would usually order a side or a quarter of an animal. I butchered very little beef, we shared a carcass with our friends usually, the other animals going to market.

I know exactly what happens, and what should happen in a British abattoir, or lets be honest slaughter house.
The animal is stunned first with a captive bolt pistol. If you Google "stun" you are told
1.
knock unconscious or into a dazed or semi-conscious state.
"the man was stunned by a blow to the head"
synonyms:
daze, stupefy, knock senseless, knock unconscious, knock out, lay out; informal knock for six
"a glancing blow stunned Gary"
2.
astonish or shock (someone) so that they are temporarily unable to react.
"the community was stunned by the tragedy"
synonyms:
astound, amaze, astonish, startle, take someone's breath away, dumbfound, stupefy, overwhelm, stagger, shock, confound, take aback,


There is a huge difference between being stunned and being knocked unconscious.

Cattle are stunned then hoisted by a chain usually round one leg and while they dangle struggling over a gutter which collects the blood they have their throats cut - which actually kills them and they are disembowelled. It's pretty speedy, a processing line ……………. but make no mistake all beef animals in the UK are killed by loss of blood however it is dressed up by custom or the innocent belief that a steak magically appears in a supermarket from cloud cuckoo land.

I regarded the killing as a necessary evil, but all my animals were free range, well fed and sheltered and had as good and respected life as possible until the time came for them to go. Of course I couldn't do it for long - there's plenty of other things to enjoy eating and to keep you fit and well.

Each to his own I guess.
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Re: Abuse of Animals

Post by Hafiz » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:36 am

Humane and quick killing meets gourmet needs because animals crowded for hours in panic mode and then dispatched less than quickly pump their bodies full of natural panic chemicals which make the meat tough. Therefore Egyptian barbarities are also bad meet. Modern abattoirs in the west aim to keep the mood quiet and the dispatch quick. I am told that large mobs of animals congregated outside/inside an abattoir become group-panicked with the same effect on their bodies.

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