Luxor Egypt the facts

What is it like to live in Luxor? Share your experiences of Luxor's culture.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:14 am

I see why you have a personal interest in that case Glyph, and yes you have every right to have an input for the very reasons you state. I did not realise this at all, I always thought you lived and worked in Cairo.

Who - did you really need to have a face put to the name, we have said hello many times, even in KZ the other week, sorry that I am gorillafied, but we cannot all be good looking or even a boring old fart like people suggest, anyway you have the right to ignore me in the future if you wish, my features and presence, I am afraid do scare some people and give them nightmares.

I had the local vet trying to inject me the other day, thinking I was a dog, but its like anything else I do not take myself seriously at all. :lol: :snig: :snig:



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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:15 am

I see why you have a personal interest in that case Glyph, and yes you have every right to have an input for the very reasons you state. I did not realise this at all, I always thought you lived and worked in Cairo.

Who - did you really need to have a face put to the name, we have said hello many times, even in KZ the other week, sorry that I am gorillafied, but we cannot all be good looking or even a boring old fart like people suggest, anyway you have the right to ignore me in the future if you wish, my features and presence, I am afraid do scare some people and give them nightmares.

I had the local vet trying to inject me the other day, thinking I was an animal, but its like anything else I do not take myself seriously at all. :lol: :snig: :snig:

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by LivinginLuxor » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:33 am

Methinks you protest too much!

Having read your constant complaints about life in Luxor - power cuts, water cuts, poor workmanship by cowboy builders, being ripped off by police etc etc, I got the impression that life here was almost intolerable for you. I agree with most of your points in your video, but could not help but compare and contrast that with your writings on this forum. Which one should I believe - the rose tinted view of Luxor from that video or the vituperative one from your many posts? I'm not sure, but there does seem to be a whiff of hypocrisy in one or the other!
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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Glyphdoctor » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:43 am

While I will keep my wild speculative theories about the disconnect between his posts and his video to myself, in defense of CE I do have to say it is one thing to live here, build a home here and settle down and another to visit for a week and he is not necessarily contradicting himself in giving different views of each. However, I would actually flip the assessment myself. I would have less safety concerns about someone living here as they should have a better idea of what is going on and when and where to avoid certain situations than a tourist who has never been here and might walk into a bad situation without even realizing it and lots of bad situations are popping up all over and will continue to pop up that could put a tourist at risk if they are out and about on their own.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Dusak » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:42 am

Its a human frailty to constantly change ones mind/opinion or perspective about all kinds of subjects. Sometimes I let out a great sigh of disheartening exasperation, wondering why am I here. Then I look at the greater picture and always end up forming the same conclusion. Because I want to be.

I'm one that logs on every day, Vodafone permitting, to see what's been said/discussed or argued about. One or two do change back and forth with their view on things, some stick stoically to their original opinions. That's the way things are, but I do think the one's that have a one sided view, which is constantly voiced on here or other places are missing out by displaying an unwillingness to view others opinions without heavy criticism as if they are the most knowledgeable of the human race.

As for the vid itself, I do not think that it matters if it was a complete opposite to what is posted on here, it was an attempt to encourage tourists back. The fact that this vid was found and not advertised showed that no self gain motive was intended. But I do have to say a lot of it was untruthfully displayed as being a positive place to visit and experience for a holiday in this moment of time. With all the current problems this is one of the last places to visit with the expectation of comfort and joy.
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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:28 pm

Glyph is very correct on this one, (There is a difference in living here, to spending a few week holiday) yes I do moan about the power/water cuts, I do moan about the infrastructure, I do moan about cowboy builders etc etc, cannot say I have ever moaned about the Police ripping me off though, anyway a quick cut and paste will put me right.

Non of these things will get put right without money, money to invest in the infrastructure, money to invest and prevent power/water cuts, money to invest in education to show people the proper way of doing things and the correct tools to use. Most of this money will have to be found and I would think that tourism will be at the forefront of Luxors rising from the ashes following a disastrous 3 years.

Therefore to get started on these things, to help business's and families, it is important to start at the beginning and get the tourism industry kick started, once we can get this started it will be hoped that the money will be invested wisely on these items. So it was with good intent I made this video to help in a small way, however it seems by the comments that, many of us do not seem to want improvements, in fact some of the comments make me feel that, its the UK that need to spend more money on education and not Egypt. for that reason I see no more reason to help or get involved with helping tourism in Luxor, and instead leave it to others. It does tell me though that after all the comments and worry from people, and all the bravado about getting tourists back to Luxor, they seem to have double standards, one for what they post on the internet and one for what they personally think.

I hope now this has explained my stance on why I made this video, the bottom rung on the ladder has to be mounted before you further the others.

I really should not have to explained this, I would have thought it would have been glaringly obvious, but now I have explained it the comments do seem to be a little fickle, and of course spoken without looking into the real situation. It is and i am sure those who are concerned vital that the local children get the correct and right education, its vital that the infrastructure, beyond power/water cuts gets put right for everyone living here. We have a tendency to be complacent because good education etc was readily available for us and free, and like myself I presume we have a tendency to forget this. At the start of every school term we buy books, pens, pencils, rulers, protractors etc for every child in our village, in the hope it helps them, and we are fortunate to be able to do this.

I could not say in the video, "We need your money to help with education the infrastructure, etc "Because that would have been a plea for help, and would have maybe fallen on deaf ears. So the only other way was to tell it has I found it, I hope that it does a bit of good, for to me having once shopped at ASDA "Every little helps"

L in L I appreciate, some of my rantings may have confused you, but hopefully you will now understand a little more, and thanks for your backing on most of the things I said on the video. Finally on this from myself thanks Dusak it seems you have hit on what its all about straight away.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Cyprus100 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:38 pm

Thanks for the enlightenment Chocolate Eclair as I'd no idea who the original post referred to, hence my asking.

In fact, it's only a few weeks ago that I realised you were a bloke because your username always struck me as belonging to a female as any reference to chocolate in a username is generally a woman thing. :?

I'm not going to go back and watch the rest of the video though.

It goes to show that nothing can be kept secret or hidden on the world wide web!
Michele,
Previously living in Limassol, Cyprus but now back in UK since 2016 :-(
Egypt is now so far away....

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:28 pm

You are right Cyprus in what you say, about things being aired in public in general. The video was meant initially for YouTube and to reach a worldwide audience. I am not too much bothered about people that take and copy things, but what does bother me is some of the negativity and remarks that have nothing to do with the video. These morons listen to the gutter dwellers and actually believe them, and at any opportunity they like to have a go for things they know nothing about or just repeat gossip and lies. I am talking about a certain social network site, when I say this.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Ruby Slippers » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:43 pm

In an ideal world, tourism would just rise again like a Phoenix from the ashes! Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how many videos are put on YouTube, until the Foreign Offices in European countries change their opinions - and advice - flights will not return; insurance won't cover you, and the situation as it stands cannot change! Perhaps you should send a copy of your video to the Foreign Offices concerned, CE, and see if it changes their minds! :urm:

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Glyphdoctor » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Why is it that everyone blames the travel advice given out by foreign governments? Don't any of you understand what that advice is based on? Are you all in such denial about how unstable this country really is? It's like treating the symptom, not the cause. And none of you can treat the cause.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Ruby Slippers » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:16 pm

The return of tourism would be at best a quick fix. However, it could just kickstart the economy and give the wherewithal to the local people to turn their thoughts to other fields of occupation which wouldn't be dependant on market fluctuations so tied up to tourism. This could in its turn lead to an upturn in the economy in general. But any divergence takes time and costs money.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:55 pm

Don't y'all think that politically the country has to get it together first? THEN and only then and once there is legitimate leadership there can be direction and planning and on and on. So long as the country is in flux business and commerce are not going to play there.

Ever watch the Stock Markets? i.e. the Dow Jones - if there is even a whiff of a problem the Dow will drop like a frozen turkey.

No businesses will get financing to go ahead right now for a tourist season. No businesses are going to risk their airplanes, their buses, their hotels etc etc etc in any country that isn't solid and no backer is going to back them right now either.

Business and commerce run on loans, debts, payments, money shuffles etc. AND they need to protect their interests and assets. They're not going to venture into Egypt 'til the country can demonstrate it is again stable.

That being said I do believe CEs video was well intentioned. Sure he is always on about certain topics but don't we all have our pet peeves? He, at least, had the conviction to put this beliefs out there. Will they help? Will they turn Luxor around? Will CE's video bring tourists flocking back? Probably not but who knows? Can't see his video hurting anything and in times of crisis sometimes it brings comfort to actually DO something. It can be very hard to do nothing and sit idle when you're invested in something that isn't going well. Actually doing something can relieve some of your own personal stress and can be healthy as a coping mechanism for the individual.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:16 am

CE's video came across more professional in its production than any other of the attempts I have seen lately to get tourism back, so I agree it probably won't hurt anything, although some other attempts to get tourism back likely will. Although I completely disagree with his analysis of the situation. The key thing here is Luxor EGYPT the facts. Even if there has not been much unrest in Luxor, in EGYPT where there has always been very centralized control and there does not seem to be a lot of that control in place anymore, then anything can happen anywhere and get completely out of hand in a matter of seconds. And for tourists to get to Luxor now, they have to pass through other areas and they may want to visit other areas. Luxor is not a country on its own.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:02 am

Thank you all and thank you Glyph and LLL. The video was not meant to hurt at all, I suppose really I am pleased that the sensible ones saw it being that way. It was just a small piece that got put on to the internet like many others do, to support my belief in Luxor and to support the many, both local and ex pats that are doing their best to raise the profile of both Luxor and surrounds.

Tourism and the money that tourism brings to Luxor will help to rebuild the place and to enable the small jobs required to go ahead, provided of course it stays in Luxor.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Dusak » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:46 am

Glyphdoctor wrote:Why is it that everyone blames the travel advice given out by foreign governments? Don't any of you understand what that advice is based on? Are you all in such denial about how unstable this country really is? It's like treating the symptom, not the cause. And none of you can treat the cause.
From the beginnings of the problems, shortages of fuel, power cuts and all the fighting, tourists still came, tour company's still sold holiday places. Governments placed a travel warning in place, insurance company's refused to issue insurance policy's, flights were canceled because of this fact so tourists stopped coming. So yes, the way I see it, it is a direct result of the warnings against unnecessary travel.
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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:17 am

Do you really not understand why the governments put the warnings in place? It has nothing to do with power outages or gas shortages.

I would suggest you all turn on ONTV Live for a while on Sunday and then switch to Mubashir Misr and then switch back and forth and then maybe you will understand the deep divisions and instability in this country that is going on beyond the area in the immediately vicinity of your computer. You really don't even need to leave your home to figure out why countries advise their citizens to avoid coming to Egypt. Turn on the tv, see the footage each side is showing and what they are saying and you will start to get a clue about it.

Just as a lesson to learn from, after the results of the elections were overturned in Algeria, it took 9 months for the resulting civil war to start. We aren't out of the woods here yet, not by a longshot.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Cyprus100 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:30 am

It's all about stability and at the moment it is the country of Egypt which is unstable. It kicked off again only yesterday, albeit in Cairo but remember, most tourists don't realise that Cairo to Luxor is around 10 hours by train.

It's no use if governments encourage their citizens to visit countries where there is civil unrest if they have to keep providing flight seats to bail them out every 5 minutes when there's an altercation. Financially, they cannot afford to take that risk neither can they play with the lives of their citizens. And so, the warnings are given....
As soon as the FCO gives such a warning, that's when the tour operators take heed and so do the insurance companies.

Quite frankly, although we've gone on holiday several times from Cyprus since we came here in 2004 the only place we've ever taken out insurance for is Egypt, mainly because of medical cover and/or expatriation to bring us back to our resident country.

We've been to Lebanon, Syria, Greece and Malta over the years - all without insurance. Lebanon we've visited 4 times and Syria twice.

The current advice from the FCO site (updated yesterday)

Still current at: 5 October 2013
Updated: 4 October 2013
Latest update: protests on 3 October
The FCO do not advise against the use of Cairo airport as a transit stop providing you do not leave the airport grounds. There have been access problems on some of the roads to Cairo airport, particularly Saleh Salem Road.
Protests and demonstrations

There have been violent clashes since July 2013 resulting in a large number of deaths. Most of the clashes have taken place in Cairo, Alexandria and Mansoura. There have been demonstrations in other parts of Egypt, including Hurghada and Luxor, some of which have turned violent. Further demonstrations are likely and could take place in any part of the country.
Think about it.... if you were considering say coming to visit Limassol in Cyprus (we're in the middle of the island some 60km from the nearest airports) and you saw those kind of warnings for Larnaca, Nicosia and Paphos - would you still envisage planning a visit to Limassol if your government indicated not to and knowing full well if you did that your insurance is unlikely to offer you any kind of protection?
Michele,
Previously living in Limassol, Cyprus but now back in UK since 2016 :-(
Egypt is now so far away....

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:05 pm

Cyprus100 wrote:It's all about stability and at the moment it is the country of Egypt which is unstable. It kicked off again only yesterday, albeit in Cairo but remember, most tourists don't realise that Cairo to Luxor is around 10 hours by train.
Correction, Luxor is no longer 10 hours from Cairo by train. All trains between Luxor and Cairo and almost the entire country (except for about 14 out of 1000 trains) have been shut down by the ministry of interior since the middle of August because the ministry says they cannot guarantee the safety of the lines, e.g. prevent bombs from being laid on the tracks. There is no timeline for their return either. But hey, you wouldn't want a tourist to come thinking they could book a train to Luxor when they got to Cairo and find out that it is no longer an option either.

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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Dusak » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:24 pm

I wasn't saying that the power outages were anything to dissuade the tourists from coming, I was saying that no matter what they saw on the TV's around the world they still came. When the advise against unessential travel was issued then they stopped coming, re-insurance. We also know that the trains at the moment are halted, this again was used as an example in relation to traveling distance, not a statement of ignorance. It is obvious that if all travel was back to normal with no adverse advise, then some tourists would be visiting, in my opinion.
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Re: Luxor Egypt the facts

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:27 pm

And no one is denying that the advice doesn't effect things. But why does no one in Luxor want to actually acknowledge the reasons for the advice?

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