WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

What is it like to live in Luxor? Share your experiences of Luxor's culture.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by HEPZIBAH » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:15 am

I know Wiz has shared/is sharing his story of his own free will. However, I think there are good and bad points to this. His story stands as an example of what can happen and should be a useful warning that it can actually happen to anyone. He wasn't the first, he won't be the last - for whatever reason or charge. When you are dealing with officialdom reasons as to the what, why's and wherefores' are seldom, if ever, given.

The danger in sharing ones personal experience is that others then start digging, asking questions that they are naturally curious about but in fact is not their business (and they would not like other people asking of them either I dare say).

At the end of the day, whilst there may be some similarities in these cases, everyone is individual too. I think we all have to bear in mind that it could happen to any ex-pat living in Egypt - for whatever reason. There are some who seem to be a bit cocky about such things and seem to think it couldn't happen to them. Were I resident in Egypt I would not be so sure.

I think everyone should have some sort of contingency plan. In situations like this, especially if you have no ties left with your home country, it can be very tough. There is suddenly so much to think about at a time when you are in shock and unable to think things through - money, accommodation, medical care if needed, even as in Wiz's case clothing (imaging living your life in the heat of Luxor and then being stuck in the UK with only the clothes on your back).

Seriously folks, don't waste too much time wondering about the why's of this case. Instead use your time wisely and think about what you would do in the same or similar situation - and then make appropriate contingency plans as far as possible.

Edit - to insert key missing word.
Last edited by HEPZIBAH on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by Glyphdoctor » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:41 am

Egyptians should have a contingency plan too. Not because of a 4am knock, but because one never knows what could happen. Better to be able to leave legally than wind up in a refugee camp in Northern Sudan should all go to hell for whatever reason or on a boat between Libya and Italy. I wouldn't advise anyone to leave now just to make a new life elsewhere as I don't think it is that bad, but if one knows it won't be easy to leave if things got very bad, then I would advise them to make sure that it can happen if necessary in a legal fashion. If that means finding a way to go abroad temporarily to get permanent residency or citizenship elsewhere and come back, then I would say do it, especially if you are young. How many husbands of foreign women married to Egyptians here, especially ones with orfi husbands, would be able to get to their wife's country rapidly if anything were to happen that forced the wife to leave? Do they have the legal and financial status to get a visa?

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by Who2 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:17 pm

Let me tell you a story:...............
When I was on holiday compliments of Her Majesties, the guy next to my 'apartment was believed to be a 'noted IRA gun runner as his trial approached he became far more agitated and the Catholic priest started visiting quite regularly.
The night before he was due up at The Old Bailey I hand wrote a poem in my head to him about resilience and fortitude.
The next day the landing screw said to me "you silly bunt he was never IRA he was the Hillsborough rapist" throwing me a copy of that days Daily Mirror.
(this guy had raped about 4 nurses)
So it's easy to fall under the guise of another's story of sympathy and sorrow. We are after all human, well most of us are..:cool:
As Maggie T liked to quote "No One is Innocent"
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by carrie » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:41 pm

I don't care why Wiz was deported, it really is none of my business, don't want to speculate. I just hope he is being cared for there in the UK, that he has reported his treatment to the authorities, for the sake of us all, that if unable to return he finds safe, secure accomodation, and appropriate medical attention.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by Glyphdoctor » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:02 pm

Who2-Actually I could see how this could happen to someone who is totally innocent of any crimes. 25 years here or not, he was on a tourist visa. Who is to say that some visa officer just came to the conclusion that he didn't need any more time for touristic activities? Tourist visas may not have limits (or they may have), but the law as I have read it concerns the purpose of the visit. And it's hard to say anyone's purpose is touristic after 6-12 months, don't you think? I actually find it more shocking that they renew tourist visas indefinitely than they cancel one after 25 years! And I think Wiz may recall I told him that here in these forums several years before he even got his visa refused.

And with that in mind, it could happen to any one of you living on a tourist visa at any time even if you are otherwise law-abiding. And with that, I refer you to Hepzi's post above.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by HEPZIBAH » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:18 pm

It seems to me that this is, for many, a vicious circle. The rules in Egypt would seem either not to be clear or not be enforced or both. If the powers that be have been habitually re-issuing Tourist Visa's then those that choose to visit Egypt short term and stay longer - providing they have been re-issued a visa for x months or year/s - cannot be blamed for wishing to continue with that 'system'. From all I have read over the years from people renewing or trying to renew or extend a visa it is all a bit of a lottery as to who you are, where you apply (and...I am reasonably confident in some case ...how much you have in your palm when you shake hands).

If the rules were clearer, the information given out consistent, and any updates made with clear and well publicised information and lead up time, I'm sure there would not be half the confusion and problems there are now. Sending people on a run-a-round from one office to another may well work in Cairo but when it involves travelling the length or breadth of the country on fools errands there is something seriously wrong.
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by DJKeefy » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:50 pm

Well according to the government website (information from about 4 years ago, things might have changed) anyone that lived in the country for 10 solid years without leaving would be entitled to an Egyptian passport, ask at any passport office and they will tell you, NEVER, even if you lived here for 50 years :roll:

How many Egyptian people in just Luxor alone have a UK passport? (I know many), How many people from the UK have a Egyptian passport? (I know none).
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by Glyphdoctor » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:53 pm

10 years residence. A tourist is not a resident. You must also have good morals, mentally sane, not disabled, pass an Arabic test and have a legal means of earning a living if you want to get citizenship based on 10 years residence. I think probably the only person who might be able to prove they have a legal means to earn a living and has lived in Luxor as a resident, not tourist, is Bombay. Because he has had residence visas and a legal business. I can think of only one other forum member who ever had a work permit of any kind and lives in Luxor.

Other forum members that I know have Egyptian citizenship include MD and Goddess. I think there is someone else too but who it is slips my mind. I have several other friends in Cairo who also got citizenship, but all are wives of Egyptians.

Edit: And I can think of several too who got it because their mothers were Egyptian.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by DJKeefy » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:13 pm

No Glyph it only said Stayed in the country did not say with what means (visa wise or other), I suppose they can add or minus what they want, wherever, whenever though.
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by Robbo70 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:20 pm

DJKeefy wrote:No Glyph it only said Stayed in the country did not say with what means (visa wise or other), I suppose they can add or minus what they want, wherever, whenever though.
Most of the descriptions of the visas are vague. The 5 year one states 'married to an Egyptian national' but then when you enquire they tell you it must be an embassy marriage.
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by Who2 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:37 pm

I can remember every single minute of the time my collar was first felt for a serious offense, time stood still, I thought about everything I possessed, 2 cars 3 flats 7 suits a girlfriend all to be lost in the blink of an eye, time moves on, possessions you find are irreverent, but nevertheless it gives one time to 'reflect on ones past misdemeanors and hopefully learn, or else one is lost.
Ps: "If you can't do the time then don't do the crime....:cool:
Pss: It's difficult to con a con-man, if you get my drift.........
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by DJKeefy » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:45 pm

Who2 wrote:I can remember every single minute of the time my collar was first felt for a serious offense, time stood still, I thought about everything I possessed, 2 cars 3 flats 7 suits a girlfriend all to be lost in the blink of an eye, time moves on, possessions you find are irreverent, but nevertheless it gives one time to 'reflect on ones past misdemeanors and hopefully learn, or else one is lost.
Ps: "If you can't do the time then don't do the crime....:cool:
Pss: It's difficult to con a con-man, if you get my drift.........
Have you posted this in the wrong thread Who2? You have lost me, mind you, I am lost with most of your posts (I probably drink the wrong tea) :lol:
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by Glyphdoctor » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:06 pm

Keefy-Here's the law:
http://www.e-lawyerassistance.com/Legis ... ylawar.pdf

It's in Arabic, but to qualify for citizenship by 10 years residence, it says you have to have had 10 years "ordinary residence"

You can find a definition of "ordinary residence" in English here:
http://www.cairo-airport.com/residence.htm

A tourist does not have "ordinary residence" and therefore does not qualify for citizenship. As I said, the only non-wife of an Egyptian in Luxor I can think of who would qualify for citizenship is Bombay, having had investor 5 year visas for more than 10 years.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by DJKeefy » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:35 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:Keefy-Here's the law:
http://www.e-lawyerassistance.com/Legis ... ylawar.pdf

It's in Arabic, but to qualify for citizenship by 10 years residence, it says you have to have had 10 years "ordinary residence"

You can find a definition of "ordinary residence" in English here:
http://www.cairo-airport.com/residence.htm

A tourist does not have "ordinary residence" and therefore does not qualify for citizenship. As I said, the only non-wife of an Egyptian in Luxor I can think of who would qualify for citizenship is Bombay, having had investor 5 year visas for more than 10 years.
:lol: I am not looking for an Egyptian passport, in fact far from it (how I am feeling about the place at the moment) But thanks Glyph for your Input :)
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by Glyphdoctor » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:57 pm

I know you aren't, but just wanted to make the situation clear because so many people seem to think they are being denied citizenship illegally when they have been here 10 years continuously on a tourist visa, when it doesn't entitle them in the first place. And by the way, it also does not say you have to have been here continuously, just that you have had to have had ordinary residence continuously, which is a visa status, not a physical presence status, which means of course you could travel abroad probably for up to six months at a time and keep your residency current because residence visas generally allow for an absence of 6 months.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION (part two)

Post by Who2 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:36 pm

Quote: Have you posted this in the wrong thread Who2? You have lost me, mind you, I am lost with most of your posts..
Answer: "I was just stating, When you seemed to have lost all and everything a few times around, one comes to a realization that material things are irrelevant and allows one the space to consider one's misdemeanors and think yourself lucky you didn't get the truncheon up the jacksey treatment, there's always a silver lining to every story...and we still await this story......:cool:
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

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