WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

What is it like to live in Luxor? Share your experiences of Luxor's culture.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by A-Four » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:53 pm

LovelyLadyLux wrote:The point of this thread by Wiz - to bring it back to where I think it should be: (And I quote)

WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).



It cannot be easy taking someone into your home and caring for them without question and forfeiting your privacy for an unspecified length of time, but they both worked earnestly in getting my life back on track. I have been helped by them in so many ways, that to try to recount them here would be virtually impossible, but they did help me, and I thank God. I shall be eternally grateful to both of them for a very long time to icome and be constantly reminded by their presence that there is still good in the world.

YOU LLL ARE SO WRONG.

It is a person in London I know of, who not only once, but twice prepared himself for the arrival of a case similar to that of Wiz, who had to be strong to handle such a case that was about to HIT him. Not easy, being that the last time they had seen their dear friend had been under much more happier circumstances, but then to see there friend, in a way, they never expected to in their wildest dreams, and the shock that they see before them unfolds, and at the same time they must keep an expression and composure of joy about their face, of seeing their old friend before them, while really all that they want to do is burst out crying as they see the horror that unfolds before their very eyes.

For dear old Wiz this has been a dreadful time, but please, Mary and George, I know you not, but I can tell you, you almost feel that even you feel that YOU need help now.

To all I say who live under the tourist visa in Luxor, take care, it is so easy to find yourself in a similar way as Wiz, even I had problems with the secret police, though I ****** them off, and left Egypt when I wanted too.

A-Four.



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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Scottishtourist » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:13 pm

Must admit,I can't even see why Wizard would want to go back!
If,as he says they've treated him like ****..then why hang on to the dream...all this nonsense about Egyptian family and whatever!
Give up the ghost Wizard..for your own sake.
You're being looked after in UK,authorities are bending over backwards to accommodate you.
They're shifting pensions,offering housing,and doing it at a speed you would never be familiar with in Luxor.
Accept it and give in graciously.Just be a tourist from now on.
Live out your old age in peace and dignity.With free healthcare to boot!
Change your attitude towards the situation...and you'll be the winner!

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by HEPZIBAH » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:33 pm

Scottishtourist wrote:then why hang on to the dream...all this nonsense about Egyptian family and whatever!
For someone who claims to be very family orientated (by implication of what has been written if not by what has actually been written) that is a very odd, even heartless statement. How would you feel if you suddenly had to detach yourself from daily one to one contact with your children and grandchildren? There may not be marriage or blood lineage involved in Wiz's case but nevertheless family is what he has had to leave. To call it nonsense is insensitive and insulting.
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Scottishtourist » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:50 pm

No it's not Hepzibah.It's realistic!
You may be privvy to all the other information regarding this case.Other's are not,and just call it as they see it!
He's getting every help available from UK authorities.They've pulled out all stops for him.They're helping him!
As are his friends.
So please don't tell me I'm insensitive to his problem!
I've read the posts and commented on the situation as I see it!
You seem to have more info on the subject..but are not willing to share it.Well, fair play,I ain't gonna push for it.It ain't my business,and I really don't wanna take on added pressure of an ex-pats problems!
With all respect,I've said my piece..I'm family orientated...for my OWN!

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:05 am

YOU LLL ARE SO WRONG.
@ A-Four - what??? I'm missing what I'm so wrong about OR maybe you didn't get my point. I re-quoted Wiz's first post of this thread to bring it back to talking about Wiz and what he went through. I didn't like the thread to start drifting (as most threads on here do) to TAPATALK and away from Wiz.

Not too sure what I'm wrong about ????? Although I definitely do concur that sometimes the Careproviders need their own Careproviders aka mental emotional support to deal with extreme cases such as this one. I have a notion that many have returned to the UK from Luxor in extremely poor condition.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Dusak » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:11 am

I can easily understand WIZARDS upset on loosing face to face contact with his Egyptian friends and 'family.' Given how much blood related family can distance themselves from the 'pack', only to resurface when something is possibly on offer, such as a last will and testament, would be a great loss, as the difference being, Egyptian friends are always there for you, from my own personal experience. On the very rare occasions that I have been ill, nothing has been to much trouble for them, seeing to my daily needs and organizing prescriptions and even Doctors if needed.

Again, from my own personal experiences in the UK, close friends and even relatives usually can only 'drop in' when convenient to them or their prior arrangements or work commitments allow. If I where to suffer what WIZARD has suffered I would love to be able to say that I have a George and Mary in the UK that would offer me such an unreserved and compassionate placement in their home and lives, but I can't. Such as they are a rare breed.

I'm a person that never forgets. When first coming to live here, the house was laid open for any former friends in the UK to come and visit, staying totally free. That is friendship. But, three years later when taking a two week visit to the UK, to visit these said same friends, not one offered the same, even though their kids had flown from the nest and there was plenty of room to spare. We owned a very nice three bed roomed park home in the Lakes. All used it for free weekends and long stay holidays, again totally free of any charge. We never expected a reciprocated level of generosity and friendship, but it would of been nice to have been placed in a position to refuse the offer.

My Egyptian friends here are an important and integral part of my life, not something that I would look forwards to loosing. And even more so when you reside in a country that gives you great pleasure. If I where he, I would seriously consider doing a Jane and getting those with a more far reaching voice involved in the hopes that this event would be the last and those directly involved would be brought to justice.
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:04 am

But what happened to Wiz was NOT sudden. Rewriting history is an insult to our intelligence. He was given an order to leave more than two years ago, which he chose to ignore and got away with! And then he decided to leave, of his own accord, last month. And then, in what was clearly a gross lapse of judgment, he decided to try to come back!

It is also very possible that one of the following two things could have happened:

1. He lived out the rest of his days ignoring his order to depart and died and was buried in Luxor with the authorities ignoring his continued presence as long as he was alive. They did it for two years, who is to say they wouldn't have continued for the next 20?

2. He took the last two years afforded to him to get his affairs in order and move to another country (not necessarily the UK-could be anywhere), on his own terms.

Whatever happened, it happened as a result of choices he made. I know he didn't choose to have his visa refused, but everything else after that he did. However, he did choose to spend more than 20 years on a tourist visa, which is not intended for residence and really does not require any justification after such a long period of time to be revoked other than you can't possibly be on a 20 year tour. And I told him, directly, here in this forum, maybe 4 or 5 years ago, that a tourist visa is not a secure thing to live on if you want to stay forever.

That the authorities might at some point in the future decide to just refuse the renewal of any tourist visa was perfectly logical and could be foreseen since years ago as they were increasingly being abused by many for illegal activities and increasingly long stays. When I first came to Egypt, you had to exchange a certain amount of foreign currency with receipts for every day you wanted to renew your visa and that I think cut back on people just using them for other purposes, but since they got rid of that rule, the abuse of the visa has skyrocketed.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:51 am

Am not trying to mitigate that Wiz took his fate into his own hands when he opted to march to his own time frame of doing what he did when and if you do that you do ultimately have to face the consequences of your actions and choices.

If you live 20 or however many years in contravention to a countries rules concerning a Visa then you should pay the price or take the punishment for doing this - however - having read Wiz' next thread, his final Revelation, I do find it unconscionable as to how he was treated by authorities.

Regardless of who you are the crime, Wiz' crime did NOT equal the punishment meted out. Being taken into custody to expedite or ensure a deportation - fair nuff. That the conditions of the holding cell were deplorable - it is what it is - however taking somebody into custody does NOT give authorities the right to water board and otherwise torture. Was it really necessary to do that to an elderly frail man? For what purpose? To show that you're capable of extreme brutality?

Very sad and disturbing all 'round.

All I can say is if it happened to me once I was safe, secure and rested I'd be singing like the proverbial canary about each and every incident. I'd be making personal appearances and verbalizing profusely to any and all who would listen. Wouldn't hesitate for a heartbeat to make it known what I went through going on the theory that if it could happen to me it could then happen to YOU.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:38 am

LovelyLadyLux wrote: All I can say is if it happened to me once I was safe, secure and rested I'd be singing like the proverbial canary about each and every incident. I'd be making personal appearances and verbalizing profusely to any and all who would listen. Wouldn't hesitate for a heartbeat to make it known what I went through going on the theory that if it could happen to me it could then happen to YOU.
There have been people making similar allegations about similar things happening to them appearing in the press FOR YEARS, since the days of Mubarak even. I don't think a month or two goes by without such allegations appearing in the press from some foreigner or another.

So much so that it is hardly notable news anymore to hear stuff like this. And if Wiz doesn't seem to have taken past stories on board as words of wisdom to apply to himself, I hardly expect others will.

It's a cliche, but denial isn't just a river in Egypt and denial is all that seems to exist in the expat community living on tourist visas. People know they are living on borrowed time, and some engage in some pretty odd behavior to keep the clock ticking, but they just keep telling themselves it can't happen to them.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Bullet Magnet » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:33 am

It's no secret that I see life differently to others, I always have, and clearly Wizard is not meant to be in Egypt right now.
The despicable and degrading treatment by the Police should re-itterate that to all.
But life is a funny old game, and Wizard has been lifted from Hell by his good friends, and as such, I feel that I would take all the help they are offering in getting Wizard back on his feet and ready to get back into battle.
Or indeed help Wizard down a new path in life. That will become clear as time moves on.

God moves in mysterious way's.. :cool:

I saw the lights going out a long time ago over our beloved Egypt, and despite a few attempts at coming back, I knew it was not to be until the time is right.

Sound familiar to anyone ?

All the very best Wizard, you do what you have to do, but as I said before, you gotta get yourself physically in better shape first. :up
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by dsaxelby » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:45 am

Dusak wrote: Again, from my own personal experiences in the UK, close friends and even relatives usually can only 'drop in' when convenient to them or their prior arrangements or work commitments allow. If I where to suffer what WIZARD has suffered I would love to be able to say that I have a George and Mary in the UK that would offer me such an unreserved and compassionate placement in their home and lives, but I can't. Such as they are a rare breed.
.
I would come and get you D :)

LLL anyone who has suffered from torture/abuse of any type usually are not in any state to either report it or even talk about it. Given time perhaps Wiz will, let him first come to terms with everything that has happened, and recover at his own pace.


(ps D have a few jobs you could do in the house :up )
(pps No trophy required ;) )
It is what it is.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by HEPZIBAH » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:56 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:But what happened to Wiz was NOT sudden. Rewriting history is an insult to our intelligence. He was given an order to leave more than two years ago, which he chose to ignore and got away with! And then he decided to leave, of his own accord, last month. And then, in what was clearly a gross lapse of judgment, he decided to try to come back!

It is also very possible that one of the following two things could have happened:

1. He lived out the rest of his days ignoring his order to depart and died and was buried in Luxor with the authorities ignoring his continued presence as long as he was alive. They did it for two years, who is to say they wouldn't have continued for the next 20?

2. He took the last two years afforded to him to get his affairs in order and move to another country (not necessarily the UK-could be anywhere), on his own terms.

Whatever happened, it happened as a result of choices he made. I know he didn't choose to have his visa refused, but everything else after that he did. However, he did choose to spend more than 20 years on a tourist visa, which is not intended for residence and really does not require any justification after such a long period of time to be revoked other than you can't possibly be on a 20 year tour. And I told him, directly, here in this forum, maybe 4 or 5 years ago, that a tourist visa is not a secure thing to live on if you want to stay forever.

That the authorities might at some point in the future decide to just refuse the renewal of any tourist visa was perfectly logical and could be foreseen since years ago as they were increasingly being abused by many for illegal activities and increasingly long stays. When I first came to Egypt, you had to exchange a certain amount of foreign currency with receipts for every day you wanted to renew your visa and that I think cut back on people just using them for other purposes, but since they got rid of that rule, the abuse of the visa has skyrocketed.
As the user of the word 'sudden' I do accept what you are saying. I certainly am not trying to rewrite history. I used the word incorrectly but it still does not take away the grief both he and the family are feeling - whether the situation was foreseen, forestalled, or not. Nor the point I was addressing about insensitivity.

Whilst I agree with the comments made above and previously about it not being normal to be a tourist for such long lengths of time, this is not just the fault of the ex-pats who have been able to get continual renewed visa's but also of the system that has allowed them to do it for so long and lull them into a false sense of security.
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Dusak » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:17 pm

I have to agree with both GD and HEPZIBAH, but it still does not justify what happened, not just to him, but others of whatever nationality. Some times it takes some folk that bit longer to eventually admit defeat. A new start in old pastures is not much of a comparison to what once was, but knowing that you are in capable hands and safe should take precedence over a country now lost to you. You will always have the memories, and anybody nowadays is contactable by phone. You or they can easily send photos and video clips to each other. Something is always better than nothing. So count your blessings.

That's a very kind offer from you dsaxelby but you would not have to come over for me as I would be in the air before I realized what had happened and by the sound of it, p*** wet through with only my shorts to my name and a pair of rusty electrodes a dangling. [not making light of your situation WIZARD, but humor helps at times] :up
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Robbo70 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:22 pm

Dusak wrote:If I where to suffer what WIZARD has suffered I would love to be able to say that I have a George and Mary in the UK that would offer me such an unreserved and compassionate placement in their home and lives, but I can't. Such as they are a rare breed.
If you are ever desperate enough to return to St Helens, then you are welcome should the occasion arise. I am in the process of making plans to leave Luxor, return to my old life for a few years while things settle down. When I return to Luxor on Thursday it will be with the intention to start wrapping up my Egyptian adventure for the time being. Should you still consider this part of the country your home, then come on over!
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Scottishtourist » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:38 pm

There's always Scotland too Dusak!
I'll look after you in my own inimitable way!!
Be afraid...be very afraid,lol.

But p.s...I'll refuse any offers of marriage..I just really need a handyman who will fix all those annoying little problems I got with this house..roofing,redecorating,plumbing,electrics,etc,etc.

So..in words of the "Drifters"...come on over to my place!

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:39 pm

HEPZIBAH wrote: Whilst I agree with the comments made above and previously about it not being normal to be a tourist for such long lengths of time, this is not just the fault of the ex-pats who have been able to get continual renewed visa's but also of the system that has allowed them to do it for so long and lull them into a false sense of security.
It is not the fault of the government. The landing card you get at the airport asks you what the purpose of your "visit" is. And it's in English as well as Arabic. I don't know what is so hard to grasp about that. So anyone who comes to Egypt for a "visit" hoping to die here is either planning a suicide bombing or is taking advantage of the system. Yes, they may get away with it for some time, even a long time, but a visit is not supposed to last forever. And there are a lot of people who fall into that category. Do you think this is the Hotel California?

A few years ago I pointed out to Wiz that there was a 3 year renewable residence visa available to those who are living in nursing homes in Egypt. I think he thought I was being facetious at the time. But I was actually quite serious. There are a number of options besides playing tourist forever.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by HEPZIBAH » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:56 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:
HEPZIBAH wrote: Whilst I agree with the comments made above and previously about it not being normal to be a tourist for such long lengths of time, this is not just the fault of the ex-pats who have been able to get continual renewed visa's but also of the system that has allowed them to do it for so long and lull them into a false sense of security.
It is not the fault of the government. The landing card you get at the airport asks you what the purpose of your "visit" is. And it's in English as well as Arabic. I don't know what is so hard to grasp about that. So anyone who comes to Egypt for a "visit" hoping to die here is either planning a suicide bombing or is taking advantage of the system. Yes, they may get away with it for some time, even a long time, but a visit is not supposed to last forever. And there are a lot of people who fall into that category. Do you think this is the Hotel California?

A few years ago I pointed out to Wiz that there was a 3 year renewable residence visa available to those who are living in nursing homes in Egypt. I think he thought I was being facetious at the time. But I was actually quite serious. There are a number of options besides playing tourist forever.
I'm fully aware of the landing card and of the other visa options. However, if the Egyptian government wanted to tighten those rules they could. However, it would appear that for many years ex-pats (tourists) have been able to keep going to the passport office or wherever it is that renews visas and keep getting a continuation by 3,6 or most commonly I believe in the past 12 months. That actually has nothing to do with the landing card - a piece of paper that many will not have seen for a good few years.
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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:04 pm

And if they want to kick you out on a tourist visa at any time they can without justification, so why tighten the rules? Just because long term tourists can't control their desire to stay?

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by carrie » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:42 pm

I live here on a tourist visa and hope to do so for a very long time, God willing. I don't work, all my income comes from the UK, all my income is spent here amongst the Egyptian population, very rarely do I frequent European run establishments. I don't cause problems, I live quietly if everyone like me was asked to leave then Luxor would be much poorer than it already is.

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Re: WIZARD'S DEPORTATION. (my guardian angels).

Post by dsaxelby » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:52 pm

My visa does not say what it is in English it lasts a year and another stamp for multiple entries 'not allowed to work' any idea what type it is :?
It is what it is.

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