Losing faith with Luxor :(

[DJKeefy]

I know Justen (Luxor Pharaohs) likes to wind people up, but I can not see him posting this "Would tourists want to holiday on the West Bank a place that harbors rapists????" for a joke, can you? If he knows of something that has happened please post about it Justen (name are not required) it may help others in protecting themselves.

The reason I ask about the above is cause last week the Lady (68) who lives above me, was burgled (we reckon about 5am in the morning), I was in the building and so was the owner, but we heard nothing (she was staying at a friends at the West Bank), they got into her house via the building next door (just been built but empty) they must have got on the first floor balcony and then jumped over to her balcony and forced the balcony doors open (they are not that strong) they got away with all her Jewelry, a camera and some cash. With Justen posting about rapists it's got some people thinking what if she had been in the flat, they might have hurt her, they might have raped her, who knows. Anyway this lovely lady is now leaving the place she once loved and going back to the UK. BTW she has had a bag snatched twice by lads motorbikes in the past, one time she was dragged down onto the floor. She has just had enough.

A few months back my friends motorbike was stolen from outside our building (this was locked up too) probably just picked up and put onto a pickup truck. last night another friends bike was stolen from a busy street, but no one saw anything

These are what I know of 100% in the last month yet I hear other stories of people getting burgled, bike stolen, bags snatched, even I have heard of an elderly women who was smacked in the face by some Egyptian. What is happening here!!! I myself are losing the happiness that I once had for this place, I wish I could join in with these events promoting Luxor on how safe it is, but I can't I would just be lying to myself and others. Most of you know that I have dedicated 10 years of my life with Luxor4u and want nothing more than Luxor to be safe and bustling with tourists, but as I see it now, there is not much of a good future.

Here is some photos of the burgled flat above me, the one with the material tied to the door must have been used for them to shimmy down the wall, they had put the bolt on the door (from inside) so the main door could not be opened if anyone came home whilst they was there, other photos show items and clothes thrown out from the drawers/wardrobe.



I must admit I was quite impressed with the police and army though, 3 vans full of them come to check the flat and ask questions

[DJKeefy]

The information and photos about the flat burglary was posted by request from the lady who's flat was burgled in a hope that people who live here might check the security of their property to make sure its safe.

[Dusak]

This upsurge of criminal attacks in and around Luxor is depressing to hear about, but even more so when it concerns yourself or very close friends. Revolution one was supposed, or at least expected too, to free this country of a lot of past troubles, but in my view has only increased them. Crimes such as the one you have reported on being one of the results. Burglaries are a result of not only greed, but the sudden and sharp fall of money available to hand. Loosing jobs, businesses, increases in food costs all contribute to these crimes due to the near disappearance of the tourist trade. I doubt very much if many are drug related as in most other countries.

Old people have always been deemed as an easy target, little or no chance of them putting up a fight. Here in Karnak I have seen very little crime since coming here. There was a slight increase a couple of years ago, but things seen to have quieted down now. This increase would never force me to make the same decision as your friend, as I would see such a move as jumping into the fire out of the frying pan. Crime figures are escalating very quickly in the UK.

As for LP comments on the West Bank rapist, who is to know what he meant, could of been just another one of his coded puns, something totally unrelated to the actual act of rape.

I hope your friend soon recovers from her ordeal, and takes home lots of good memories with her, not just this bad one. At least she wasn't there at the time, things could of turned out a lot worse.

Good to see that your up and about again.

[Glyphdoctor]

I don't know any pertinent details of what Justen is talking about, but I do know that his remarks should be taken completely seriously and not just treated as a windup.

You must recall that man who came from Esna a few months ago and raped the European woman in the banana grove. It's clear that criminals see foreigners/foreign women as easy/fruitful targets for rape or burglary. That is likely because the consequences (potential for a blood feud) are likely less and the amounts of money to be gained are seen to be more.

As for crime figures in Egypt and especially Luxor, I doubt you have any clue what they really are as a lot of crimes are dealt with outside the official criminal justice system. For example, between my husband and I we probably know as many people who were victims of murder/attempted murder in Egypt as in the US or probably even more and you know what the murder rates in the US are like.

[Luxor Pharoahs]

I think many feel the same way as yourself Keith! Its good someone has the b--s to post what is happening..

[Luxor Pharoahs]

One of the biggest problems on the West Bank is if a crime is reported the villains family and villagers will put the victim under a great deal of pressure to drop cases, be it theft, attack or whatever, saying they will deal with it in the Islamic way. Everyone has heard of this. Maybe the lady in the Banana Field was put under this pressure, maybe the lady who was attacked recently, or who had her bag stolen were treated the same, maybe the man who had his motorbike stolen may have gone through the same thing, maybe the lady whose flat was broken into and had items stolen will go through the same thing. It really should be that if a case is serious enough the police and the law makers should override the wishes of the victim. I am sure that many people who have been robbed, attacked or whatever have experienced this and have been left with a feeling of not having justice it must be terrible for them, the distress must play on their minds for a long time after. It maybe there are many attackers that are roaming about free, in the knowledge their last case was dropped and in the future, local pressure and threats will prevent it again. Its a sad state of affairs. But once again I really have to say "Is this a place to invite tourists to?"

I personally did not know this pressure and threats existed, but apparently it does, and European people are put under great pressure to save the local villain. Its a disgrace really and needs looking into.

[Glyphdoctor]

The Islamic punishment for rape is death, LP.

[Jayway]

Living in a dream Keefy, when are you going to realise the dream is over ? ? ? Why do people who leave return to UK ? There are other countries that are warm and reasonably safe.

[newcastle]

The concept of 'rape' in islam is a little vague. I don't think it's mentioned in the Qur'an. Zina (unlawful sex) is forbidden outside of marriage....the status of the 'victim' is irrelevant and the idea that a woman had any say in the matter would have seemed foreign, at least to the early muslims. Slaves, and captives taken in battle were routinely raped.....and the act specifically sanctioned for unmarried warriors.

But I digress. The idea that the issues of robbery & rape should be dealt with in 'the islamic way' is a misnomer. What is involved is 'tribal law & culture'....not islam.

Surmounting this has long been a problem for the law in Egypt.

[Glyphdoctor]

It is effective within the culture and is often done with the full knowledge and coordination with the police and other authorities, even though it is outside the state justice system. It's how things work in Luxor and the state accepts it because they know it works in most cases and it would be harder to change it than accept it. It does not mean people are necessarily escaping justice, just that they have a different concept of justice and punishment than you do. These are the same systems the Egyptians in Luxor use among themselves to settle disputes and if they thought they could get a fairer deal from the state, they would resort to it. But they don't. It also is a system that recognizes the important of families as opposed to the state justice system which is based on individuals. Remember, in all cases there are at least two parties and there might be one who comes out of it better than the other but the important thing is they both regard it as fair, even if it is not a desired judgment.

[Bullet Magnet]

The Islamic punishment for rape is death, LP.

And how many Men have had this sentence. ? You will of course be aware of what is required by the victim to even press charges..

Maybe this is worth mentioning, and you could please describe this process to us all.

[Glyphdoctor]

High profile cases of gang rape and child rape tend to get death sentences in the court system. Others we don't hear much about so who knows. The rape law was revised a few months ago though with stiffer punishments and clearer definitions. It also recognized the possibility that men could be victims of rape for the first time.

Murder cases tend to be 1 or 3 years for cases of self-defense or defense of property, 15 years in cases of family feuds and revenge killings. I know of one murder case personally (perpetrator was actually a woman) where the penalty was death, although I am not sure if it was actually carried out, but I do know it was sent to the mufti for ratification according to the newspapers. In that case the murder was long premeditated and not revenge of any kind. She actually attempted to kill the victim once with poison, but it failed, and was not recognized as such by the doctors in the hospital treating him, and then some 9 months later she hit the victim over the head with a heavy object and killed him that time. I also know of a case where the death was not intentional, but was due to fighting between two parties, and the first party killed the second in a way that normally would not result in death. The killer fled Egypt for many many years, repented and turned his life around and became a very well-behaved and religious person. I think his family made a settlement with the family of the man who died of some kind, and he eventually returned for maybe a year but left again due to a mismatch between his current job qualifications and positions available here at the time.

[DJKeefy]

Living in a dream Keefy, when are you going to realise the dream is over ? ? ? Why do people who leave return to UK ? There are other countries that are warm and reasonably safe.

Out of the blue by Jayway I can assure you Jayway I don't live in any dream, far from it.

[Who2]

20 years ago The Egyptian Gazette had a great column called "Red Handed" it was brilliant and highly collectable about the ongoing daily crimes of everyday Egyptians, over the years written by many different journalists but with always 'a flair for the dramatic, the 'perps always always admitted their heinous crimes wrought on just about every level of egyptian society.
I always thought a collection would make a great book.
If you ever thought this land was a bed of roses you should have done your homework better, 'rose tinted glasses'
to be honest…
Ps: Perhaps the EG still has that column.

[Dusak]

From what I have been told, the family suffer so much shame, shame that in a lot of cases when the crime is perpetrated against an unmarried woman, that it is usually left unreported by the victim. They tend to be blamed for the attack and become ''soiled goods'' where marriage is concerned. This happened to a friend of my friend some eight years ago. The girls family accepted 20,000Le as compensation from the boys family that then shipped him off the Cairo to live with relatives. I just wonder what happens under these circumstances if the girl ends up pregnant.

[carrie]

Oh great stories by Red Handed loved reading them. I remember a mortuary assistant was moving a womans body to the morgue and he had forgotten the keys, he sent his assistant to get them and when he returned the first man was having sex with the dead woman. Can't remember how long he got but it was always stories like that.
I know Keefy you have been having problems for some time about living here you are intelligent and young enough to start over somewhere else, life is too short to spend your life living somewhere you are unhappy. Remember though that nowhere is perfect, robberies, rapes, theft takes place everywhere and less so in Egypt than in the majority of the "developed world".

[DJKeefy]

I know Keefy you have been having problems for some time about living here you are intelligent and young enough to start over somewhere else, life is too short to spend your life living somewhere you are unhappy. Remember though that nowhere is perfect, robberies, rapes, theft takes place everywhere and less so in Egypt than in the majority of the "developed world".

I am not having problems, I just don't like what I am seeing/hearing I love Luxor and I love majority of the Egyptian people, of course there is some that will ruin that experience, yet since the revolution it is getting worse. I don't care about what the stats are in other parts of the world, "I LIVE HERE" and know like you do and the Egyptians do that the place is getting worse and "robberies, rapes and theft" are increasing big time.

[lotusflower]

Whilst it is a small item it is still a robbery. I purchased 20 meters of water hose for washing my steps a few weeks ago in abu Naher costing 85 le. I then connected a power washer connecter to the hose which I had brought from Ireland (costing about 15 Euro), great for power washing my steps and any mats I have to clean. Left the hose connected to the tap down stairs and the gates were locked. Got up one morning and hose and connector gone! somebody would have had to put a long stick through the gates to catch it or hook it, pulled it off the tap and STOLE it.

The connector is yellow/blue and green just in case anyone might see it... This item is not available in Luxor.

[Luxor Pharoahs]

The main problem is the fact there has been no work for many in Luxor now for the past three years, tensions will grow among those struggling for money. We keep hearing about bag snatches, robberies, breaking into peoples homes theft and many other stories. now we are hearing that foreigners have been given until the 11th February to leave and if they have business's until 13th February. What will be next?

People keep asking "When will the tourists be back?" at this moment of time the answer is Never!!, why should they come back? All it will take is an incident in Luxor and the tourist industry will be killed off once and for all. History tells us this, Hatchepsutes incident, the revolution and the massacres in Cairo, the killing of police officers and security officers in Cairo. Although many of these incidents are in Cairo it will not take long to spread if the Security does not take action. But then when they do take action they get condemned. You can not have it all ways.

Again there are those who do not take these warnings seriously and again I am sorry but rose tinted glasses comes to mind. Lets just hope if anything does happen these people are NOT effected, if they are they will be running to the eye clinic for new spectacles to look through from a different angle.

There are some of the members here who actually live in Cairo, some may even know someone who has been killed by these incidents, fortunately Luxor has been reasonably quiet during these periods, but if the place stays like it is and people have no incomes for another year, I foresee things may change drastically. For this reason we have to give during these troubled time the security forces our full backing no matter what, so they can bring the Country back to normality.

Don't take my word for it, just look at the amount of ex pats that vowed "Luxor is great", "I would never leave Luxor", where are these people now? they are not in Luxor. They have deserted it haven't they. It may be for lack of work it maybe they do not feel safe, but the fact is they made a statement and did not stick to it. This being the case, just think of how locals feel.

[Who2]

Quote:
People keep asking "When will the tourists be back?" at this moment of time the answer is Never!!, why should they come back? All it will take is an incident in Luxor and the tourist industry will be killed off once and for all.

Some people never listen, this moment in time or any moment in time it's all a matter or Tour companies revenues…
Ps: And tour companies insurance policies...