Losing faith with Luxor :(

What is it like to live in Luxor? Share your experiences of Luxor's culture.

Moderators: DJKeefy, 4u Network

Kymmy
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:40 pm
Location: six months Luxor six months UK
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 10 times
United Kingdom

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Kymmy »

Pps
I hope the lady in question is ok and returns to UK she will far better off ( in my mind anyway)) welcome home xxxxcc



Kymmy
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:40 pm
Location: six months Luxor six months UK
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 10 times
United Kingdom

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Kymmy »

Faith is lost gone to another Place wasted and unused misused and a abused totally gone
Lost to only the hangers on hoping willing and praying that life will return ??? That the good
Times will come back so we can once again lie cheat deceive steal and have are wonderful life
Back
Well in the words of a ???!
Been. Done it got me. T shirt
You hang in there for a long long time
Having your heart broken is the easy part; knowing when to move on is the challenge.

Mad Dilys
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2136
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:19 am
Location: Luxor/UK/Ibiza
Has thanked: 4715 times
Been thanked: 2358 times
Spain

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Mad Dilys »

Kymmy wrote:Faith is lost gone to another Place wasted and unused misused and a abused totally gone
Lost to only the hangers on hoping willing and praying that life will return ??? That the good
Times will come back so we can once again lie cheat deceive steal and have are wonderful life
Back
Well in the words of a ???!
Been. Done it got me. T shirt
You hang in there for a long long time
Having your heart broken is the easy part; knowing when to move on is the challenge.
But have you? :ni:
Smile! It confuses people

User avatar
Adamantium
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:36 pm
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 50 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Adamantium »

I have been keeping an eye on Egyptian affairs since the revolution. I frequently Google Luxor to see what the tourist situation is. I Google Scams and crime and a lot of the stuff I have read weighs up against that. To hear that a man (DJKeefy) who has dedicated ten years of his life to Luxor has lost faith is quite alarming. I have studied affairs so keenly I was even able to predict that after the spate of terrorist attacks up north with attention drawn to those areas the security forces were taking their eye off the ball and they would soon target the popular areas of the South and two weeks later they attacked Aswan a very beautiful City. I had heard of the crimes that take place such as the Burglaries of holiday apartments. I had so often wanted to return to Luxor but I think the Luxor I cherish has gone. I pondered on the choice of Flat V Hotel in regards to personal safety and that of my belongings. With the situation as it is and people's money running dry along with the tourists numbers greatly depleted hotel staff may help themselves or do so spurred on by outside influences meaning the criminal element.

Many of the stories I have come across regard peoples intolerance towards the aggressive hassle usually initiated by Caleche drivers. Aggressive hassle is brought about through the desperate need to get a good days pay to feed family and horses. I have seen the videos of Luxor Souk becoming a ghost town and I have seen a photo of the area where the Oum Khalthoum Café used to be and now it is bare and apparently people dump their rubbish there. Even as the Revolution was in its early stages and Mubarak was still in office I thought it better the revolution never happened. Thankfully Morsi did not last. He shot himself in the foot in appointing a man associated with terrorism as the Governor. When Morsi was ousted Luxor partied. They feared he would bring in extremists who would do to Luxor what ISIL has done to the Museum of Mosul.

Shortly before Christmas I watched home video of Egypt. So busy the tourists were there. The souk was busy. People were happy. It was all good. I watch it and think yes I want to return. But then I realise it is to that Egypt, that Luxor I want to return. But it sounds like that Luxor has fallen into premature antiquity. Expats forsaking Luxor...That says it all. The founder of this Forum himself an expat seeing no upturn in sight. Am I then to live Egypt through its glorious past as experienced by me? I keep hoping it will change. People believed Sisi would bring about that change but his Government make no effort to promote Egypt. While we have had Commercials promoting Morocco and Tunisia each making a grab for those who have abandoned Egypt we get nothing of the sort from Egypt? Why? Have the people in power also given up? Have they also decided Egypt is a lost cause or is it a case of "I'm all right Jack." After all they have their millions and billions. They don't mix with mere mortals. Even Mubarak had a man who would got outside the walls of the Palace and let him know what the ordinary people were up to.

Susan Mubarak as I had experienced in Aswan insisted the Corniche is closed for her to drive down. All of the businesses had to close. Must they be thinking "We could have put up with that for one day rather than all these years of loss." None of us can turn back time. A life of what ifs does no one any good. But if one blog I came across is anything to go by where tourists put across their stories of hassle and crime the typical response from an Egyptian isn't. "We will change. We want the tourists back. We will be better people." No, their response is. "If you don't like what we do or the way we are don't come to our country." They would rather shoot themselves in the foot. What a shame.

I have often asked myself, if I do not go back what other Country would I chose? I know I love Egypt. If there is a film or documentary concerning Egypt I watch it. Is it time to say goodbye to this cradle of civilisation? If I was to follow my heart then I will be engaging in a tug-of-war with myself. One part of me says yes and another no. When I hear of crimes and bombings and matters that further deter the tourists my heart bleeds for Egypt and I see the downslide.

So I can definitely say this Forum has been informative.

LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 2256 times
Canada

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

@ Adamantium - very interesting post. When did you first start going to Luxor and for how many years did you know it pre-Revolution? And, if I might ask - what brought you to Luxor initially?

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Glyphdoctor »

Adamantium wrote: But if one blog I came across is anything to go by where tourists put across their stories of hassle and crime the typical response from an Egyptian isn't. "We will change. We want the tourists back. We will be better people." No, their response is. "If you don't like what we do or the way we are don't come to our country." They would rather shoot themselves in the foot. What a shame.
.
I don't know how long you have been coming to Luxor but over 20 years ago lots of people working in tourism in Luxor said to me, "Where are the factories? There's nothing here to do but tourism. We want other opportunities." So not really being excited about tourists is nothing new. Believe me, people don't work in tourism because they love tourists and want to rely on tourism for a living. They do so because everyone-from the government to the old ladies who invest their money in businesses in Luxor-thinks of only one thing, tourism. It's forced on Luxor whether the people like it or not. If someone cared to diversify the economy I think people would be quite happy to put whiny, self-centered tourists who want the place to stay the same for them forever behind them.

User avatar
Luxor Pharoahs
Member
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:26 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 149 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Luxor Pharoahs »

Adamantium, there are still more ex pats leaving this year. The original poster on this subject who has lost faith is by far not the only one. There are many in the process of moving or looking elsewhere to move.
There are even some who invested heavy in business's getting fed up and looking to see if they can salvage something before they move. Some that invested in property are also attempting to sell but without success, so they can move. There is a lot of investment needed in the whole of Luxor, and it will depend on how long this takes and how long people are prepared to wait to see progress.
But don't fall for the hard up banana, there are plenty of people with money in Luxor, still new cars appearing on the streets everyday, and the uncontrolled building program is booming. This says there is plenty of cash about, one minute someone pleading poverty the next minute they are building blocks of flats, don't know who they will rent or sell them to, because no one wants to rent to locals. Again I don't know why!! Ha Ha!!

User avatar
Luxor Pharoahs
Member
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:26 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 149 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Luxor Pharoahs »

You are 100% correct GD. But who will put their head above the parapet to start something like this?
A lot of the time when new concepts and ideas are put forward, they are met with cynicism or the barriers go up to make it a non starter.

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Glyphdoctor »

I don't know if anyone stopped to consider that perhaps the locals have lost faith in the tourists. When I see comments like Adamantium's above where his main concern for the bombings seems to be that it scares off tourists I feel how close-minded and blinkered some people are. Yes, that impacts the tourist flow and that impacts the economy but show some sympathy with those who are direct victims of those bombings or who have no choice but to move around near potential targets on a daily basis. I was just saying to my husband last night, how do we even go out without having to pass a target, for example there's a KFC on one side of the street, a mobile phone network shop over on the other side a little further down, and then you have this gaggle of police in the middle, and maybe a courthouse thrown in. You'd have to zigzag all over the place to get away from it all. When foreigners see everything in Egypt through the eyes of tourism and tourist impact it comes across as very callous and insensitive.

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7260
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2074 times
Been thanked: 6093 times
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by newcastle »

I think you're being a little harsh regarding foreigners perception of Egypt Glyph....but then this is your 'style' :urm:

Of course foreigners view Egypt through the eyes of a potential visitor....what else? It doesn't mean they are oblivious or uncaring towards the economic & security issues facing the country.

Yes....many comments I see here and elsewhere are ill-informed, self-centered and, in some cases, quite crass. LP seems to think there's plenty of money around in the hands of the locals and that their tales of their poverty are exaggerated. He needs to get out more.

It's obvious Luxor needs to diversify away from tourism....but this is not going to happen unless & until the government focuses on the area with massive projects. Such efforts as I've seen tend to be spasmodic and tourism-orientated. While the security situation remains delicate, such efforts are a waste of time. No-one is much inclined to travel to a war zone no matter how extraordinary its history might be, how neat & tidy the streets might be or how welcoming and well-behaved the locals might be. Egypt is perceived as a war zone...and it's getting worse.

The media is full of reports on developments elsewhere....new capital city, Suez canal extension, solar power for Sharm, extensive development of Red Sea resorts etc etc..

But Luxor.....????

As for Keefy....my guess is he was having a bad day when he posted a while back :lol:

We all have them :wi

User avatar
DJKeefy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10839
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 863 times
Been thanked: 1832 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by DJKeefy »

newcastle wrote: As for Keefy....my guess is he was having a bad day when he posted a while back :lol:

We all have them :wi
Could be newcastle, but these bad days seem to be getting more frequent, I can't recall any before the revolution, unless my mind is on the blink (possibility) lol
Image

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Glyphdoctor »

I'll give you a very common example Newcastle. How often do people say if they don't get the sexual harassment under control the tourists won't come back. A true point, but there are probably a lot more Egyptian girls who have to deal with it day in and day out 365 days a year. It's not a specifically tourist problem. It's not restricted to tourism areas. Make the country a place that Egyptians want to live in and then it will be a place others want to visit.

I happen to live in a neighborhood that is full of tourists from one single country. Tons of them. They have not stopped coming except for a brief period in the past 4 years and they increase in numbers all the time. The only things specifically tailored to them here are two restaurants selling their national food and 2 or 3 currency exchanges, both of which are frequented by Egyptians as well. There is nothing else for them as visitors specifically whatsoever, not even more than one tiny hotel. They stay in the same flats in buildings where Egyptians live. They shop in the same shops everyone else does and go to the suq everyone else goes to. You don't have to go out of your way to please the tourists. No one chases after them specifically because they aren't Egyptian, even though their nationality is immediately identifiable. Make it good for locals and the tourists will come.

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7260
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2074 times
Been thanked: 6093 times
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by newcastle »

DJKeefy wrote:
newcastle wrote: As for Keefy....my guess is he was having a bad day when he posted a while back :lol:

We all have them :wi
Could be newcastle, but these bad days seem to be getting more frequent, I can't recall any before the revolution, unless my mind is on the blink (possibility) lol
No surprise there.

It's been a traumatic 4 years for Egypt generally and for many of us associated with it :cg

User avatar
Zooropa
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Leicester
Has thanked: 1286 times
Been thanked: 1749 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Zooropa »

Glyphdoctor wrote:
Adamantium wrote: But if one blog I came across is anything to go by where tourists put across their stories of hassle and crime the typical response from an Egyptian isn't. "We will change. We want the tourists back. We will be better people." No, their response is. "If you don't like what we do or the way we are don't come to our country." They would rather shoot themselves in the foot. What a shame.
.
I don't know how long you have been coming to Luxor but over 20 years ago lots of people working in tourism in Luxor said to me, "Where are the factories? There's nothing here to do but tourism. We want other opportunities." So not really being excited about tourists is nothing new. Believe me, people don't work in tourism because they love tourists and want to rely on tourism for a living. They do so because everyone-from the government to the old ladies who invest their money in businesses in Luxor-thinks of only one thing, tourism. It's forced on Luxor whether the people like it or not. If someone cared to diversify the economy I think people would be quite happy to put whiny, self-centered tourists who want the place to stay the same for them forever behind them.
Yes, and perhaps the whiny tourists will find an alternative place where they don't get the tits hassled off them every time they set foot out of their hotel.

Every bodies happy. :br

User avatar
Luxor Pharoahs
Member
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:26 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 149 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Luxor Pharoahs »

I do get around, every day I am out and about, I see new things everyday and that is why I say the economy of Luxor is not as bad as people are saying. Unless of course these new cars and buildings are being built with Goverment subsidies. But the eyes say it all, "I need to be better than the man next door". So material things come first, food and basic things are secondary. Maybe do to lack of real education and studies of economics.

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7260
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2074 times
Been thanked: 6093 times
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by newcastle »

Glyphdoctor wrote:I'll give you a very common example Newcastle. How often do people say if they don't get the sexual harassment under control the tourists won't come back. A true point, but there are probably a lot more Egyptian girls who have to deal with it day in and day out 365 days a year. It's not a specifically tourist problem. It's not restricted to tourism areas. Make the country a place that Egyptians want to live in and then it will be a place others want to visit.

I happen to live in a neighborhood that is full of tourists from one single country. Tons of them. They have not stopped coming except for a brief period in the past 4 years and they increase in numbers all the time. The only things specifically tailored to them here are two restaurants selling their national food and 2 or 3 currency exchanges, both of which are frequented by Egyptians as well. There is nothing else for them as visitors specifically whatsoever, not even more than one tiny hotel. They stay in the same flats in buildings where Egyptians live. They shop in the same shops everyone else does and go to the suq everyone else goes to. You don't have to go out of your way to please the tourists. No one chases after them specifically because they aren't Egyptian, even though their nationality is immediately identifiable. Make it good for locals and the tourists will come.
We're singing from the same hymn sheet Glyph.

In my view it's the perceived security issues keeping the tourists away. The hassle & filth never discouraged them in the past.

And yes, the Egyptians have all the same issues to contend with. They have little choice but to endure.

User avatar
Who2
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6853
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: Siddharthanagar
Has thanked: 1541 times
Been thanked: 5358 times
Gender:
Nepal

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Who2 »

Sexual harassment ? what are we talking about here ? from the tourists to the locals seems far more appropiate than visa versa, going by the book Television street anyhow…. :cool:
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Glyphdoctor »

But it's the image for tourists that counts above all.

There's a trial scheduled for the men who killed the dog already on March 11.

User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4470
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 2863 times
Been thanked: 5467 times
United Kingdom

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by carrie »

When people say that there is no poverty in Luxor look at the new cars the building etc, they fail to remember or even don't know that a lot of families in Luxor have someone working abroad Dubai, Kuwait for instance who send remittances home to the families. One man I know has a lovely home, beautiful car, he's a teacher and couldn't possibly afford it on his salary but Dad works in Kuwait and sends money home regularly. Unless you know the circumstances how can you judge.

User avatar
HEPZIBAH
Luxor4u God
Luxor4u God
Posts: 11532
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 3103 times
Been thanked: 4388 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by HEPZIBAH »

I would also suggest that even though there may be signs of greater wealth you don't have to look very far to see more than just signs of greater poverty. Those in the middle of the two are probably the ones that have 'government' type jobs and have a regular income but it barely meets the increased cost of living.
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • Do you have a faith ?
    by WIZARD » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:56 am » in Politics and Religion
    71 Replies
    10107 Views
    Last post by Bearded Brian
    Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:53 pm
  • Blind faith?
    by newcastle » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:28 pm » in Know Egypt
    2 Replies
    459 Views
    Last post by Major Thom
    Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:22 pm
  • The Cost of losing one's Cherry ?
    by Who2 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:03 am » in Know Egypt
    8 Replies
    384 Views
    Last post by Who2
    Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:23 pm
  • Tourism minister: sector losing LE1 billion per month
    by DJKeefy » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:11 am » in Know Egypt
    0 Replies
    189 Views
    Last post by DJKeefy
    Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:11 am
  • Hilton Luxor Resort raises EGP 16,500 for Luxor Orphanage
    by DJKeefy » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:33 pm » in Know Egypt
    11 Replies
    1191 Views
    Last post by Winged Isis
    Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:54 am