Losing faith with Luxor :(

What is it like to live in Luxor? Share your experiences of Luxor's culture.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Glyphdoctor »

Luxor Pharoahs wrote:The main problem is the fact there has been no work for many in Luxor now for the past three years, tensions will grow among those struggling for money. We keep hearing about bag snatches, robberies, breaking into peoples homes theft and many other stories.



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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Brian Yare »

Glyphdoctor wrote:
Luxor Pharoahs wrote:The main problem is the fact there has been no work for many in Luxor now for the past three years, tensions will grow among those struggling for money. We keep hearing about bag snatches, robberies, breaking into peoples homes theft and many other stories.
Your point being ? GD?

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Adamantium »

LovelyLadyLux wrote:@ Adamantium - very interesting post. When did you first start going to Luxor and for how many years did you know it pre-Revolution? And, if I might ask - what brought you to Luxor initially?
I had first come to Egypt pre-revolution. I had only ever known Mubarak's Egypt.

A friend had initially asked me to join him on a trip as he went regularly, however I was content with my beloved Ireland. Some years later I had been in WHS Looking through the DK Book on Egypt reminding me of the splendour and awesome history which I had loved learning about when at school. I realised then I had always loved Egypt but when my friend asked me I had not actually ever been abroad. I had even missed out on some great trips when at Uni all because I didn't have a passport. So I opted to come to Egypt and it was summer so I will never forget leaving the plane and feeling the heat and the scent and I sensed I was somewhere I was going to love. It was night when I had arrived so I did not get to see that much. I did walk around and found the people to be very friendly and polite.

I would say there are two elements at play that had me fall in love with Egypt, my love of Egyptology and fondness for Arabian Nights tales. I recall my first time in Aswan. I had walked through the souk having promised the string of sellers I would come back, but I was not to know I would fall in love with this little Mosque and the people around it. It all looked like a scene from "The Thief of Baghdad." I sat with them for a while filming. I left, carried on my walk only to return later. It is a pleasant little community where I felt welcome.

I have been to all of the Temples several times although no Tombs. One time I walked from Gazira up to Hatshepsut and then walked around to Deir El Medina and back around to Gazira. An Egyptian told me I was mad as I could have been attacked. I sense that walk could not be so without incident these days. There was just one small incident but nothing I could not deal with. My life was not threatened or my belongings. Those incidents came later like when I asked a taxi driver to take me to Hatshepsut and he as much as abducted me and took me to El Barat. Having made a bid for freedom I met a good Samaritan who took me in and shared with me his Ramadan breakfast. I then began to avoid the West Bank.

As I said in the post I have a lot of video of my time in Egypt over 400 Hours so I have been many times. It is great looking through them although heart breaking through what I have been reading. The Glory days are history and it might be I will have to live off my memories although that thought saddens me. I only stopped going before the revolution as I wished to concentrate on my work a lot of which I have Egypt to thank for as it has proven to be a great inspiration.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

A Adamantium - thank you for sharing your insights. Very interesting. I too have only been to Egypt pre-revolution when Mubarak was in power.

Any chance you'll share some of your movie clips?

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Adamantium »

Glyphdoctor wrote:I don't know if anyone stopped to consider that perhaps the locals have lost faith in the tourists. When I see comments like Adamantium's above where his main concern for the bombings seems to be that it scares off tourists I feel how close-minded and blinkered some people are. Yes, that impacts the tourist flow and that impacts the economy but show some sympathy with those who are direct victims of those bombings or who have no choice but to move around near potential targets on a daily basis. I was just saying to my husband last night, how do we even go out without having to pass a target, for example there's a KFC on one side of the street, a mobile phone network shop over on the other side a little further down, and then you have this gaggle of police in the middle, and maybe a courthouse thrown in. You'd have to zigzag all over the place to get away from it all. When foreigners see everything in Egypt through the eyes of tourism and tourist impact it comes across as very callous and insensitive.
Hi Glyphdoctor. You are quite right to pick up on that point although you have read me wrong. If you look again I had not written of the terrorist attacks from that perspective. It was only in mentioning crime and aggressive hassle I spoke of the impact on tourism. However if that is how you viewed the article then I should clarify my perspective that you understand me better. It is not that I am insensitive towards the impact on Egypt and Egyptians. When I initially hear of bombings in Egypt my first thought is not for the impact on tourism. When I heard of the bombing in Aswan I googled it concerned with where it hit and who was targeted and killed. If that came across as my main concern I was only addressing it as this post is about the state of Luxor and the downturn in tourism therefore I was writing it from that perspective. However my focus on the effect these incidents have on tourism is not through some selfish concern for tourists but the welfare of Egyptians who suffer through the lack of tourism, therefore if tourists are deterred from going to Luxor because of such troubles then the welfare of Egyptians suffer. Only a short time after the revolution I had a Coptic friend ask me "When will the tourists return." Just a month or two later other friends were telling me the shops were closing in the souk. So I have long been aware of how much Egyptians have been suffering. I spend my time helping to promote Egypt via Facebook pages and groups reminding people of its history, splendour and the friendliness of its people. I speak enthusiastically of my time there experiencing all aspects of its culture with the diversity of Arabian and Nubian and the multitude of music and art that comes from such cultures.I don't come to Egypt to hang out with tourists. You don't find me in any beer gardens or pubs.

Sadly Egypt is in the grip of terrorists with ISIL Affiliated groups finding leverage in Egypt's north. Innocent bloggers are being incarnated for unjust sentences. Women are being gang raped. Morsi had been voted into Presidency but anyone like myself who keenly watches events in Egypt realised the Military were not taking a back seat. They were waiting in the wings just waiting for Morsi to put a foot wrong as he did and so under the peoples mandate they took power and brought Egypt around full circle. Events in the North come about as the Government wishes to create a buffer zone and so are removing innocent Egyptians from their homes. The Police are corrupt and persistently seek baksheesh from people often pulling them to one side. No money then Kalaboosh. I have met Egyptians who had killed Policemen and the people cheer when they hear this. In some jails Egyptians do not get fed and so have relatives bring food in for them. I had to speak up for one Caleche driver who was wrongly dragged to Kalaboosh in Aswan as someone wrongly pointed the finger at him. It was then I saw the inside and not for the last time. The Police arrest you for smoking Hashish but freely smoke it themselves as I discovered in Aswan. The Currency Exchange in Luxor got raided. In Aswan there has been strife between the Nubian and Beni Helal tribe bringing about deaths. A Six year old boy was raped by an adult because he was singing a Pro Sisi song. I am well aware of what is happening in Egypt and its impact on its people however tourism is a life-blood and without the tourist revenue anarchy and crime are the consequences. I am an avid viewer of Aljazeera who dedicated several of their 'Inside Story' slots to Egypt. I have hours of recordings of the Revolution seeing its beginnings to the present situation with attacks on ISIL in Libya and Egypt's declaration of HAMAS as a terrorist group therefore inspiring further confrontations and attacks from groups sympathetic to these groups.

So believe me when I say when I come to Egypt I do not come to hang out with tourists not that I have anything against tourists. But I want to hang out with English people I can go to England. If I want to sit drinking Stella I can do that at home. (I much prefer Guiness.) I have nothing against tourists. I much prefer to stay in hotels where there seldom are any. I come to Egypt for Egypt's sake and I cry when I hear of such troubles as I have known Egypt in its better times and I long for it to be so again. So this is the context in which my article had been written.
Last edited by Adamantium on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Adamantium »

LovelyLadyLux wrote:A Adamantium - thank you for sharing your insights. Very interesting. I too have only been to Egypt pre-revolution when Mubarak was in power.

Any chance you'll share some of your movie clips?
Hi LovelyladyLux. I shall seek to do so once I have Formatted them for this new laptop. (Long Story.) You have reminded me that I have to get around to that. Most of them were done on DV tapes. It is only in recent years I did digital recordings. I am watching some now going back to the beginning. I have seen the souk evolve and the Corniche on the West Bank emerge. So many changes. I have Luxor Station as my Wallpaper as it is the gateway to Aswan. When I am in Luxor I miss Aswan. When I am in Aswan I miss Luxor.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by newcastle »

Adamantium wrote:
Glyphdoctor wrote:I don't know if anyone stopped to consider that perhaps the locals have lost faith in the tourists. When I see comments like Adamantium's above where his main concern for the bombings seems to be that it scares off tourists I feel how close-minded and blinkered some people are. Yes, that impacts the tourist flow and that impacts the economy but show some sympathy with those who are direct victims of those bombings or who have no choice but to move around near potential targets on a daily basis. I was just saying to my husband last night, how do we even go out without having to pass a target, for example there's a KFC on one side of the street, a mobile phone network shop over on the other side a little further down, and then you have this gaggle of police in the middle, and maybe a courthouse thrown in. You'd have to zigzag all over the place to get away from it all. When foreigners see everything in Egypt through the eyes of tourism and tourist impact it comes across as very callous and insensitive.
Hi Glyphdoctor. You are quite right to pick up on that point although you have read me wrong. If you look again I had not written of the terrorist attacks from that perspective. It was only in mentioning crime and aggressive hassle I spoke of the impact on tourism. However if that is how you viewed the article then I should clarify my perspective that you understand me better. It is not that I am insensitive towards the impact on Egypt and Egyptians. When I initially hear of bombings in Egypt my first thought is not for the impact on tourism. When I heard of the bombing in Aswan I googled it concerned with where it hit and who was targeted and killed. If that came across as my main concern I was only addressing it as this post is about the state of Luxor and the downturn in tourism therefore I was writing it from that perspective. However my focus on the effect these incidents have on tourism is not through some selfish concern for tourists but the welfare of Egyptians who suffer through the lack of tourism, therefore if tourists are deterred from going to Luxor because of such troubles then the welfare of Egyptians suffer. Only a short time after the revolution I had a Coptic friend ask me "When will the tourists return." Just a month or two later other friends were telling me the shops were closing in the souk. So I have long been aware of how much Egyptians have been suffering. I spend my time helping to promote Egypt via Facebook pages and groups reminding people of its history, splendour and the friendliness of its people. I speak enthusiastically of my time there experiencing all aspects of its culture with the diversity of Arabian and Nubian and the multitude of music and art that comes from such cultures.I don't come to Egypt to hang out with tourists. You don't find me in any beer gardens or pubs.

Sadly Egypt is in the grip of terrorists with ISIL Affiliated groups finding leverage in Egypt's north. Innocent bloggers are being incarnated for unjust sentences. Women are being gang raped. Morsi had been voted into Presidency but anyone like myself who keenly watches events in Egypt realised the Military were not taking a back seat. They were waiting in the wings just waiting for Morsi to put a foot wrong as he did and so under the peoples mandate they took power and brought Egypt around full circle. Events in the North come about as the Government wishes to create a buffer zone and so are removing innocent Egyptians from their homes. The Police are corrupt and persistently seek baksheesh from people often pulling them to one side. No money then Kalaboosh. I have met Egyptians who had killed Policemen and the people cheer when they hear this. In some jails Egyptians do not get fed and so have relatives bring food in for them. I had to speak up for one Caleche driver who was wrongly dragged to Kalaboosh in Aswan as someone wrongly pointed the finger at him. It was then I saw the inside and not for the last time. The Police arrest you for smoking Hashish but freely smoke it themselves as I discovered in Aswan. The Currency Exchange in Luxor got raided. In Aswan there has been strife between the Nubian and Beni Helal tribe bringing about deaths. A Six year old boy was raped by an adult because he was singing a Pro Sisi song. I am well aware of what is happening in Egypt and its impact on its people however tourism is a life-blood and without the tourist revenue anarchy and crime are the consequences. I am an avid viewer of Aljazeera who dedicated several of their 'Inside Story' slots to Egypt. I have hours of recordings of the Revolution seeing its beginnings to the present situation with attacks on ISIL in Libya and Egypt's declaration of HAMAS as a terrorist group therefore inspiring further confrontations and attacks from groups sympathetic to these groups.

So believe me when I say when I come to Egypt I do not come to hang out with tourists not that I have anything against tourists. But I want to hang out with English people I can go to England. If I want to sit drinking Stella I can do that at home. (I much prefer Guiness.) I have nothing against tourists. I much prefer to stay in hotels where there seldom are any. I come to Egypt for Egypt's sake and I cry when I hear of such troubles as I have known Egypt in its better times and I long for it to be so again. So this is the context in which my article had been written.
There was no need to explain yourself Adamantium.

Glyph is always pointing the finger at us "uncaring" expats/tourists. Take it as her way of balancing the content of the forum which does sometimes sway towards criticising every aspect of life in Egypt.

It would be equally creepy to read post after post lamenting the fate of the Egyptians, pre & post revolution, which you portray quite accurately (as far as my experience is concerned).

Direct criticism of the authorities on internet sites is not welcomed and may lead to your exclusion from Egypt - as one former member of this forum discovered.
DJKeefy Edit this is supposedly from what was wrote on facebook though, not here.

Glyph's comments on the posts of others sometimes verges on the grossly presumptuous.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Adamantium »

newcastle wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
Glyphdoctor wrote:I don't know if anyone stopped to consider that perhaps the locals have lost faith in the tourists. When I see comments like Adamantium's above where his main concern for the bombings seems to be that it scares off tourists I feel how close-minded and blinkered some people are. Yes, that impacts the tourist flow and that impacts the economy but show some sympathy with those who are direct victims of those bombings or who have no choice but to move around near potential targets on a daily basis. I was just saying to my husband last night, how do we even go out without having to pass a target, for example there's a KFC on one side of the street, a mobile phone network shop over on the other side a little further down, and then you have this gaggle of police in the middle, and maybe a courthouse thrown in. You'd have to zigzag all over the place to get away from it all. When foreigners see everything in Egypt through the eyes of tourism and tourist impact it comes across as very callous and insensitive.
Hi Glyphdoctor. You are quite right to pick up on that point although you have read me wrong. If you look again I had not written of the terrorist attacks from that perspective. It was only in mentioning crime and aggressive hassle I spoke of the impact on tourism. However if that is how you viewed the article then I should clarify my perspective that you understand me better. It is not that I am insensitive towards the impact on Egypt and Egyptians. When I initially hear of bombings in Egypt my first thought is not for the impact on tourism. When I heard of the bombing in Aswan I googled it concerned with where it hit and who was targeted and killed. If that came across as my main concern I was only addressing it as this post is about the state of Luxor and the downturn in tourism therefore I was writing it from that perspective. However my focus on the effect these incidents have on tourism is not through some selfish concern for tourists but the welfare of Egyptians who suffer through the lack of tourism, therefore if tourists are deterred from going to Luxor because of such troubles then the welfare of Egyptians suffer. Only a short time after the revolution I had a Coptic friend ask me "When will the tourists return." Just a month or two later other friends were telling me the shops were closing in the souk. So I have long been aware of how much Egyptians have been suffering. I spend my time helping to promote Egypt via Facebook pages and groups reminding people of its history, splendour and the friendliness of its people. I speak enthusiastically of my time there experiencing all aspects of its culture with the diversity of Arabian and Nubian and the multitude of music and art that comes from such cultures.I don't come to Egypt to hang out with tourists. You don't find me in any beer gardens or pubs.

So believe me when I say when I come to Egypt I do not come to hang out with tourists not that I have anything against tourists. But I want to hang out with English people I can go to England. If I want to sit drinking Stella I can do that at home. (I much prefer Guiness.) I have nothing against tourists. I much prefer to stay in hotels where there seldom are any. I come to Egypt for Egypt's sake and I cry when I hear of such troubles as I have known Egypt in its better times and I long for it to be so again. So this is the context in which my article had been written.
There was no need to explain yourself Adamantium.

Glyph is always pointing the finger at us "uncaring" expats/tourists. Take it as her way of balancing the content of the forum which does sometimes sway towards criticising every aspect of life in Egypt.

It would be equally creepy to read post after post lamenting the fate of the Egyptians, pre & post revolution, which you portray quite accurately (as far as my experience is concerned).

Direct criticism of the authorities on internet sites is not welcomed and may lead to your exclusion from Egypt - as one former member of this forum discovered.

Glyph's comments on the posts of others sometimes verges on the grossly presumptuous.
Thank you for pointing that out although I had read some of your other comments and found that out. I did however get a little carried away. I was merely pointing out how aware I am of current affairs in Egypt and how they are effecting the people and the nation.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Glyphdoctor »

No offense meant, but being aware and living it are two very different things.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Dusak »

If a tourist never set foot in Egypt again, the country would carry on, the people would survive. Why some should think that tourists are the sole provider of the countries finances I don't know. Since they all but disappeared there have been no mass deaths due to starvation or suicides. The people carry on, shifting their earnings direction to other areas. Once the shock-waves of the first eighteen months or so have dissipated and they realized that tourism has almost disappeared, they adapt. The country may have lost X number of billions due to the tourist migrations to other sunnier climes, but it still turns.

Sexual harassment has been with us since the dawn of man, not a thing imported by tourists. It has always been here, just never seen by the sunglasses brigade until highlighted since the birth of the internet.

Not every building that is being built is solely for the sale to foreigners, never has been, never will be. They [the buildings] are a well established tradition by the local people for their extended families. They save for years to achieve this, or are lucky enough to have the money to choose their own time of starting to build. And when they do build, they usually put a small shop unit on the first floor, ether for their own use, or to rent out. An upsurge in building usually means that the price of steel and/or cement has dropped to more favorable levels.

There are some really good deals available at the moment concerning the purchase of new cars, low finance and long term loans, not an indication that the people are walking around with spare cash. How many in the UK put all their eggs in one basket just to own a new car? To be seen to be able to afford one? Its no different here.

Taxi drivers now have to stop and open their doors to transport the local people that want their services, not stand at the curbside, ignored because the drivers are searching out the more profitable tourist charges. They make a living, the locals get to sit in a taxi at a reasonable locals rate, they all still eat. Same with the callesh owners. Same with the shop keepers. Hotels are staying open, be they half empty, but are now welcoming more Arab visitors than they used to, even Egyptians, taking advantage of cheap rates.

Crime rates may seem to be escalating, but are they? Or is it just that we are now hearing more news that we ever did in the past? They could have remained stagnant for many years without us knowing the real figures. It has been tradition that very few crimes are reported, the police taking very little or no interest in reported crime. But when they are ordered to take notice, they start to issue numbers that give the impression that there is an upsurge in crime, but in fact there isn't. The female tourist did not first bring handbags into Egypt, Egyptian females have had them for generations, so snatching them is not a tourist born problem. It was just because they suddenly realized, the snatchers, that they contained better goodies than the local ones, and the local ladies tended to take more care of how they displayed their bags and contents.

As for the expats that have left, they where old when I first met a lot of them over ten years ago so today they are ether dead or have had to return to get looked after, unable to survive here on their own.

The motorbike problems that we all suffer from is a direct result from the government allowing the likes of India to import cheap machines. They could of created a vast industry producing a quality bike themselves at an affordable price, but not so cheap that a kid with pocket money could afford and cause mayhem wherever they ride. A missed opportunity to employ many thousands of people with the possibility of exporting the finished product. Egypt does have a bike production of sorts, but according to the stats, levels of production have dropped each year from 2011.

With or without us expats, Egypt will continue. We are, at the end of the day, an insignificant contributor to the growth and well being of this country.
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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Who2 »

HEPZIBAH wrote:I would also suggest that even though there may be signs of greater wealth you don't have to look very far to see more than just signs of greater poverty. Those in the middle of the two are probably the ones that have 'government' type jobs and have a regular income but it barely meets the increased cost of living.
Where in the World doesn't this happen, where I live amongst a farming community life seems to be moving along quite happily, without tourists…. :cool:
Ps: Regarding Al-Jazzera they are totally supportive and totally biased in favour of terrorism, why do you think they are loathed here and the Yanks tried to target them..
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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by newcastle »

Dusak wrote:

With or without us expats, Egypt will continue. We are, at the end of the day, an insignificant contributor to the growth and well being of this country.
Tourism generally is not insignificant for the country as a whole Dusak, although Luxor's contribution has declined lately. The contribution of expats per se is, however, insignificant

The recent firm action, with regard to various incidents which have flooded the internet & press here & abroad, is not unconnected with the importance the government attaches to the foreign/tourist perception of Egypt.

Otherwise , your comments are spot on.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by HEPZIBAH »

Who2 wrote:
HEPZIBAH wrote:I would also suggest that even though there may be signs of greater wealth you don't have to look very far to see more than just signs of greater poverty. Those in the middle of the two are probably the ones that have 'government' type jobs and have a regular income but it barely meets the increased cost of living.
Where in the World doesn't this happen, where I live amongst a farming community life seems to be moving along quite happily, without tourists…. :cool:

I'm sure it does happen all over the world. I'm just tired of the 'every one must have much more money because they are ...' posts without any balance.

As for farming communities - they are the ones who's lives are likely to move along quite happily because they have always known how to take care of themselves and put food on their table, no matter how meagre. City dwellers are, on the whole, less adept at this because they either don't have the original knowledge or the physical means to achieve this - or both.
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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Glyphdoctor »

Don't you know, Hepzi? Egyptians are required to be eternally poor and if they ever even reach the level that would be considered lower middle class in other countries, they must have lied, cheated or fooled someone to get there. Because otherwise, how would the lower middle classes of Europe that move to Luxor maintain the illusion to themselves that they have themselves moved up in the world by settling down with an illiterate boatman?

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by HEPZIBAH »

Glyphdoctor wrote:Don't you know, Hepzi? Egyptians are required to be eternally poor and if they ever even reach the level that would be considered lower middle class in other countries, they must have lied, cheated or fooled someone to get there. Because otherwise, how would the lower middle classes of Europe that move to Luxor maintain the illusion to themselves that they have themselves moved up in the world by settling down with an illiterate boatman?
:roll:
I'm beginning to understand. It's just taking me a little longer than others. ;)
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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Who2 »

During the Revolution I replaced my front garden gate with steel double doors, and door viewer, when my un-climeable 'jahanemai was accidentally pulled down by a passing lorry off my 10ft wall I then erected 4 strands of barbed wire on-top and started to train the 'jahanemia to climb again.
My neighbours purchased stupid little 'yapping dogs that bark all night at nothing.
I supplied 'her next door with a proper gate and automatic PIR flood lights, 'for her peace of mind.
When a member of this site was exposed to whilst on her push-bike, I supplied her with a foot of steel-linked chain, a) to lock her bike and b) to swing at 'pervs.
I also tried at the time to purchase a shotgun but the price was far to exorbitant.
So, 'Don't leave self protection until after the event, you have been warned! Girls get yourself a screech alarm and test it or a taser.. :cool:
Ps: Love the last line GDr, illiterate boatman Ha!
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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Luxor Pharoahs »

The best way to protect yourself is to revert to being deaf and dumb. In my case I am 50% there! I find it hard to distinguish the difference between any Country really, all have good and bad things going for them. It's when the bad things strike that people get annoyed, the main thing that annoys me is the Egyptian Clock, and the time it takes to complete anything. The hassle does not bother me now I have got dark and mirror lens sunglasses, and my head no longer has a right and left swivel action.
Also when you hear the old story, "I have no business and have two children to feed" gets the response, "I too have no work, I too have two children, so it makes us the same doesn't it" They suddenly seem to be lost for words. Another thing is to collect 25 p coins for back sheesh and look at their faces when you give them one of the coins. Then go into the spiel, " I have two children no work etc!"

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Adamantium »

newcastle wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
Glyphdoctor wrote:I don't know if anyone stopped to consider that perhaps the locals have lost faith in the tourists. When I see comments like Adamantium's above where his main concern for the bombings seems to be that it scares off tourists I feel how close-minded and blinkered some people are. Yes, that impacts the tourist flow and that impacts the economy but show some sympathy with those who are direct victims of those bombings or who have no choice but to move around near potential targets on a daily basis. I was just saying to my husband last night, how do we even go out without having to pass a target, for example there's a KFC on one side of the street, a mobile phone network shop over on the other side a little further down, and then you have this gaggle of police in the middle, and maybe a courthouse thrown in. You'd have to zigzag all over the place to get away from it all. When foreigners see everything in Egypt through the eyes of tourism and tourist impact it comes across as very callous and insensitive.
Hi Glyphdoctor. You are quite right to pick up on that point although you have read me wrong. If you look again I had not written of the terrorist attacks from that perspective. It was only in mentioning crime and aggressive hassle I spoke of the impact on tourism. However if that is how you viewed the article then I should clarify my perspective that you understand me better. It is not that I am insensitive towards the impact on Egypt and Egyptians. When I initially hear of bombings in Egypt my first thought is not for the impact on tourism. When I heard of the bombing in Aswan I googled it concerned with where it hit and who was targeted and killed. If that came across as my main concern I was only addressing it as this post is about the state of Luxor and the downturn in tourism therefore I was writing it from that perspective. However my focus on the effect these incidents have on tourism is not through some selfish concern for tourists but the welfare of Egyptians who suffer through the lack of tourism, therefore if tourists are deterred from going to Luxor because of such troubles then the welfare of Egyptians suffer. Only a short time after the revolution I had a Coptic friend ask me "When will the tourists return." Just a month or two later other friends were telling me the shops were closing in the souk. So I have long been aware of how much Egyptians have been suffering. I spend my time helping to promote Egypt via Facebook pages and groups reminding people of its history, splendour and the friendliness of its people. I speak enthusiastically of my time there experiencing all aspects of its culture with the diversity of Arabian and Nubian and the multitude of music and art that comes from such cultures.I don't come to Egypt to hang out with tourists. You don't find me in any beer gardens or pubs.

Sadly Egypt is in the grip of terrorists with ISIL Affiliated groups finding leverage in Egypt's north. Innocent bloggers are being incarnated for unjust sentences. Women are being gang raped. Morsi had been voted into Presidency but anyone like myself who keenly watches events in Egypt realised the Military were not taking a back seat. They were waiting in the wings just waiting for Morsi to put a foot wrong as he did and so under the peoples mandate they took power and brought Egypt around full circle. Events in the North come about as the Government wishes to create a buffer zone and so are removing innocent Egyptians from their homes. The Police are corrupt and persistently seek baksheesh from people often pulling them to one side. No money then Kalaboosh. I have met Egyptians who had killed Policemen and the people cheer when they hear this. In some jails Egyptians do not get fed and so have relatives bring food in for them. I had to speak up for one Caleche driver who was wrongly dragged to Kalaboosh in Aswan as someone wrongly pointed the finger at him. It was then I saw the inside and not for the last time. The Police arrest you for smoking Hashish but freely smoke it themselves as I discovered in Aswan. The Currency Exchange in Luxor got raided. In Aswan there has been strife between the Nubian and Beni Helal tribe bringing about deaths. A Six year old boy was raped by an adult because he was singing a Pro Sisi song. I am well aware of what is happening in Egypt and its impact on its people however tourism is a life-blood and without the tourist revenue anarchy and crime are the consequences. I am an avid viewer of Aljazeera who dedicated several of their 'Inside Story' slots to Egypt. I have hours of recordings of the Revolution seeing its beginnings to the present situation with attacks on ISIL in Libya and Egypt's declaration of HAMAS as a terrorist group therefore inspiring further confrontations and attacks from groups sympathetic to these groups.

So believe me when I say when I come to Egypt I do not come to hang out with tourists not that I have anything against tourists. But I want to hang out with English people I can go to England. If I want to sit drinking Stella I can do that at home. (I much prefer Guiness.) I have nothing against tourists. I much prefer to stay in hotels where there seldom are any. I come to Egypt for Egypt's sake and I cry when I hear of such troubles as I have known Egypt in its better times and I long for it to be so again. So this is the context in which my article had been written.
There was no need to explain yourself Adamantium.

Glyph is always pointing the finger at us "uncaring" expats/tourists. Take it as her way of balancing the content of the forum which does sometimes sway towards criticising every aspect of life in Egypt.

It would be equally creepy to read post after post lamenting the fate of the Egyptians, pre & post revolution, which you portray quite accurately (as far as my experience is concerned).

Direct criticism of the authorities on internet sites is not welcomed and may lead to your exclusion from Egypt - as one former member of this forum discovered.
DJKeefy Edit this is supposedly from what was wrote on facebook though, not here.

Glyph's comments on the posts of others sometimes verges on the grossly presumptuous.
Thank you DJKeefy. I have been anxious of this. Thanks for easing my concerns. I have not made such statements on Facebook, quite the opposite I have expressed my support of Sisi as well as hopes for a better Egypt and not from a tourist stand point.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Adamantium »

I was interested in reading the history of tourism as illustrated in one of these posts where it showed the influx of tourists in the 70s. Egypt was once the playground of the rich and famous as portrayed in "Death on the Nile." and Agatha Christies Poirot stories. It is sad how Egypt has been raped of their antiquities the British Museum being a home to a vast array of such antiquities. Given what is happening in Iraq and as far fetched as I hope this is, if according to a Fatwa which has apparently been broadcast on several Egyptian stations, if the many Temples were toppled and the antiquities destroyed as they are regarded as Idols, with all of this gone would the tourists want to see Egypt? I cherish Egypt's history, however I as much appreciate the people. The old and the new are the perfect blend that makes Egypt. Egypt of antiquity balanced against Misr of Islam with the fusion of Luxor Temple and the Mosque of El Abu Hajjaj being a perfect symbol. Having visited the Mosque I got to see the Temple from the point of view some tourists seldom do. Egypt's Mosques and Coptic Churches are as interesting as its antiquities as I mentioned in a previous post. I doubt very much Egypt ever has to entertain such a scenario as Egypt had spoken, Sisi and the army listened and they rid you of the corrupt Islamist extremist Government. The Fatwa was apparently issued in 2012 when they probably thought they had the chance and of course it now gets air time because ISIL is destroying the Antiquities of Iraq.

Given that modern tourism is a relatively new thing then it would seem given that Egypt was only the escape of the rich and famous the two not being mutual exclusive Egypt would survive without tourism. However once you taste something, lets say Democratic freedom you don't want to look back and be as it was before. Now Egypt has tasted high rates of tourism and the benefits that has brought do they then yearn for the days when it was the escape of the rich and famous and Egypt predominantly belonged to Egyptians? I would find that hard to believe. Perhaps those who say otherwise do not work with or have little to do with tourism. Although there are many who take advantage of tourists either through scams or direct theft and abuse I have met many who are genuine with no Ulterior motive behind their friendship. Egyptians are a wonderful and warm people. Those many people down the Souks those multi-linguists they would have no one to practice their verbal skills on so may loose it. I think Egypt could survive as often people do when times are hard but those on here who say Egypt can survive without the tourists is like the wounded girlfriend who having been shunned by the best boyfriend she could ever hope to have pretends she doesn't really care and can live without him. But then she spends all of her time sitting alone at home yearning for him and all the benefits that involved.

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Re: Losing faith with Luxor :(

Post by Luxor Pharoahs »

Lower/middle class, is that how others think of people from Saudi or Dubai, or Qatar? Every Country or City has the right to improve itself without being labelled. All the Countries and Cities I mentioned had to start somewhere.
It's not right now that counts so much financially it's the future, when the Suez Canal is finished more revenue will be created to invest in the Country. Vast improvements have to be made to the infrastructure to attract outside industries, but most of all education standards need to be improved. I was in a shop 2 days ago, when a woman barged in front of me with a can of drink and wanted to be served, I said do you mind I am halfway through being served can you wait your turn? The woman replied I am a teacher at the school over the road and need to get back, I then said teacher or not, it's obvious manners do not come into your curriculum

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