The good, the bad and ...

[Dusak]

I was talking to a long term friend living here yesterday and just happened to mention that I hadn't seen so and so in a long time, another long time casual friend, but one that I took to be reliable and honest. I was quick to receive the ''don't mention that name to me'' comment, which surprised me as this other person was a much closer friend to the friend I was talking to than I was. Apparently this person had attempted to relieve my friend from quite a bit of cash. Obviously we discussed this matter at length. Then I was told that another long time acquaintance of us both, also living here, had also attempted to do the same. It seemed that both of these new clefties were operating independently, one not knowing what the other was up to.

I was at a loss to understand why this should happen as both these people had always been helpful, came out with the rest of us, but not often, over the years, joining in the fun and activities. My friend stated without thought that it was purely down to money, they having to struggle to survive here. So it seems that the only option they had was the attempted theft from a loyal friend that thankfully saw what was being attempted. It just goes to show that you really can not trust as many as you first presumed you could. Sad that things have to go in this direction, even sadder that you once called them friend.

It is also a fact that both relied on the past larger numbers of expats living here to get an income.

It was certainly an interesting day, as it also seems that another well known expat living here is attempting to do the same to me, but in a different form and one that really does not interest me in the slightest. I help anyone that asks for it, not interested in any form of commission, but they are and so took the opportunity to steer away from me a new acquaintance that I was helping through a third party for nothing into the direction of gain for them. This cash shortage some expats are experiencing is slowly turning what was once decent people into unethical predators.

[Brian Yare]

No wonder DJK is no longer posting here!

[Who2]

No wonder DJK is no longer posting here!

Who he ?….

[Major Thom]

Lack of cash drives people to do anything "D" a shame really, that's why rainy day savings is a must. Its terrible I know especially when it involves friends.

[carrie]

D it always disturbs me when someone says something about someone they have a dispute with, there are two sides to every story, I always judge people on how they behave to me personally.

[carrie]

Lack of cash drives some people to do some things MT not everyone.

[BENNU]

It is sad that your friends are no longer friends, Dusak.

The first foreigners that were friendly with me in Luxor 8-10 years ago, were dishonest and only looking for ways to get money out of you. They were people who loved it here but had no other income but what they could trick others into paying.

They could not afford to live here so I do not know why they stayed.

Today there seems to be people who stay because they cannot afford to leave.

Very sad.

[Glyphdoctor]

I've said it before and I will say it again, there was a time when you had to exchange a certain amount of hard currency every day of your stay in order to extend your tourist visa. Bringing back that rule would probably be helpful in these cases. Not entirely because I met people at that time who were engaging in some rather strange ways of supporting themselves on a temporary basis, but at least it would eliminate the people who thought they could settle down for good without a legal way to support themselves.

[LovelyLadyLux]

To me the entire issue of scamming money comes down to 'what price freedom' in that if you're caught scamming and it is sufficient to warrant legal action it means you will ultimately give up you personal freedom, peace of mind, friendships and on and on. Is scamming worth it?

Same way I don't understand people who shoplift penny items, get caught and end up doing time. They're paying an extremely high price in terms of personal freedom for such a silly act.

Guess at the end of the day you have to live with your own conscience and actions and what you've done.

[Dusak]

First of all I'm the only one out of those mentioned that is a member of this forum, one of them hasn't even got a computer. I agree that there is always two sides to every story and in most cases the listener should take everything with a pinch of salt. But in regards to this one I saw the evidence myself. The three that are mentioned are only casual friends, I could go a full year without seeing any of them, with the exception of the one that was nearly taken advantage off.

When you are suddenly faced with a situation such as this your memory suddenly tends to kick in, highlighting past occurrences that you have taken only a passing interest in, but put alongside these recent events, its suddenly becomes clear that there have been a couple of near misses with these three.

I am not going to get involved as such as it is none of my business and there was no victim, this time. I will, no doubt, meet them in the streets at some time in the future. They will, I'm sure, acknowledge me with a friendly hello which I will return. I will not take offense with them concerning what I've been told.

It is just a shame that people are suddenly placed in a position of such dire straights that they have to resort to such actions against friends that had so many good times together when it was all milk and honey.

As for the reinstatement of the rule of having to prove your financial worth to stay here on a years visa, as we had to do, if it be true that this is no longer in force, then I think that it would be a good decision to bring it back. And not only that, any such rule should run in tandem with an automatic check with that persons home country. I would imagine that there would be a lot of payments having to be returned to the governments.

[Glyphdoctor]

That's another point-the financial debts in their home countries, although that is not Egypt's business to deal with. There's a woman I used to know about 15 years ago, and I just googled her and it seems she is still here, who was running away from paying her student loan debts back in the US. She had lived in Taiwan for about 6 years before that so she has been on the run for more than two decades. And student loan debts are the one kind of debt you can't get rid of in the US even by declaring bankruptcy.

[A-Four]

I have to agree with Dusak with this situation.

I and another member of this forum became only too aware of this problem during my last recent visit, I was horrified to learn that a number of what I always thought were quite well off ex-pat, who seem to be living week to week, they tell me they would return to the U.K., if they could.

During a conversation with a group of ex-pats, within the first week of my stay in Luxor, when there was a time that I thought it might be prudent to get the next plane out of Egypt, I suggested that all independant travellers, like myself and ex-pats should have at least £500 in hard currency, just in case the whole place goes tits-up. This being because all banks and cash points would close, no one would take the local currency being that when the banks did open the LE, would have collapsed. "And where would you expect us to find that", came the reply.

[HEPZIBAH]

I have to agree with Dusak with this situation.

I and another member of this forum became only too aware of this problem during my last recent visit, I was horrified to learn that a number of what I always thought were quite well off ex-pat, who seem to be living week to week, they tell me they would return to the U.K., if they could.

During a conversation with a group of ex-pats, within the first week of my stay in Luxor, when there was a time that I thought it might be prudent to get the next plane out of Egypt, I suggested that all independant travellers, like myself and ex-pats should have at least £500 in hard currency, just in case the whole place goes tits-up. This being because all banks and cash points would close, no one would take the local currency being that when the banks did open the LE, would have collapsed. "And where would you expect us to find that", came the reply.

I would suggest that should such an occasion arise that £500 would not be sufficient and that a minimum of perhaps £1,000 might be a more realistic starting point.

Let us hope that it is never a situation where our figures are put to the test.

[Glyphdoctor]

I've heard, secondhand, that a certain expat was actually repeatedly borrowing money from a friend in the UK. The friend finally got sick of being used as a cash machine and refused to hand over any more money and cut off the relationship completely. And who knows, maybe other friends in the UK were being hit up for money by this same person.

Whether it is 500 or 1000, it's incredibly crazy to let yourself get stuck in a poor, unstable country on a tourist visa without any money to your name. Say they even managed to get back to the UK or were forced to go back, what are they going to do, walk out of Heathrow and go sleep on the street?

[A-Four]

I have to agree with Dusak with this situation.

I and another member of this forum became only too aware of this problem during my last recent visit, I was horrified to learn that a number of what I always thought were quite well off ex-pat, who seem to be living week to week, they tell me they would return to the U.K., if they could.

During a conversation with a group of ex-pats, within the first week of my stay in Luxor, when there was a time that I thought it might be prudent to get the next plane out of Egypt, I suggested that all independant travellers, like myself and ex-pats should have at least £500 in hard currency, just in case the whole place goes tits-up. This being because all banks and cash points would close, no one would take the local currency being that when the banks did open the LE, would have collapsed. "And where would you expect us to find that", came the reply.

I would suggest that should such an occasion arise that £500 would not be sufficient and that a minimum of perhaps £1,000 might be a more realistic starting point.

Let us hope that it is never a situation where our figures are put to the test.

Yes, perhaps you are correct here on price Hepzibah.

On my last visit, I brought along my older brother, and although I have been in a number of war zones in my life, my brother trusts me to place him in a town or country that ain't going to kick off. I was quite nervous during our first week in Luxor, and kept a careful track on the Internet, had I known the information I was getting then, two weeks earlier I would certainly have canceled the holiday.

I know an unauthordox method of getting out of Luxor to Cairo, if the **** hit the fan, though I would not want to put my brother though that, therefore I held enough £ sterling should it be needed.

My Grandfather knew the Mann's in Bierut in the late Eighties, I think they were in the RAF together during WW2, they came and stayed with him on WB, he said both of them were bats, but then again so was he.. The point I am trying to make is that the British government tried to get them out to Cyprus, they refused, then were kidnapped by the Hezbollah, a name that is still around today, they lost everything, the rest is history.

If there was to be an attack on the status quo in Egypt, to destabilise the present system in what many would regard as "the jewel in the Middle East" then it certainly would come from the South, where the so called dis enfranchised people would be most evident, and before you or anyone in what I call 'the Caccoon' that is Luxor, would know, is that some one unkind person would be banging at their door.

That first week in Egypt for me did NOT feel safe, others on here, should take note.

[carrie]

Why didn't you feel safe?

[Dusak]

For the last two and a half months I've been on the road through Luxor. Going to my friends place, traveling all over the place buying and looking for building materials. All I can say is that all looked and felt, for me that is, just as it did last year and the years before that. Safe. I know that I will never be in a position of entering the 'underbelly' of the city, the hidden system where things move at a different pace and direction, but would assume that I, and others, would, eventually, see an indication that things were about to change, or there was ''a feeling in the air.'' But nothing of the sort seems evident to me. I suppose if you think that something is amiss without actually witnessing anything or are of a nervous disposition then I think that you would be on your toes most times.

I have noted that some expats are attempting to borrow money 'on a short term basis' from friends, but from what I can see, those friends are ether not as well fixed as they were in the past so have to decline the requests, or just do not trust getting the money back. And why should they be asked to bail out people they have really only just met, time wise, with their money that they have worked all, or most of their lives for? You look out for yourself nowadays, gone are the friendly knocks on your back door for a two day top up loan, knowing that you had the moral guarantee of getting it back. Nowadays it tends to be a fond farewell, never to see it returned.

And its not as if these requests for financial help are for the little luxuries in life, they are to cover the basics, food, electricity rent and the likes. One of the more used ones that I've herd of of late is that the cash seeker needs to go back to the UK under the guise of various reasons, death in the family, medical or legal needs. All bogus as they are still here many months later figgering out excuses as to why the delay in leaving.

[Mad Dilys]

I give in the spirit of charity, I will not lend.

My family say that if you can afford to lose the money give it - do not make someone obligated to you.

I have been baled out many times in my life without asking for help and always so far paid it back.

I have also given significant sums and refused re-payment.

That is quite different from an advance in lieu of work to be done, again, don't moan if they don't keep their part of the deal, it's a gamble.

[carrie]

I know someone who borrowed money to return to the UK to visit a family member, the person lending it couldn't really afford it but asked for it to be repaid, as and when the other could do so. Even got a signed agreement. The borrower has refused to give the money back even saying that the note he signed had been forged.
Everyone complains about Egyptians being scammers but in my opinion it's the ex pats who are the biggest.

[Who2]

On my last visit to Blighty I happily found 5k in one of my 2 safes, I bought it back with me I have 50 quid left.
Why ? well to be honest I hate travelling to the 'dark-side to withdraw from an ATM.
So where has it gone into the Egyptian economy with the rest of well over a £100k. If I couldn't have afforded to live here, I wouldn't have come in the first place. Stupid I'm not!….