Safety??

What is it like to live in Luxor? Share your experiences of Luxor's culture.

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Safety??

Post by hatusu »

Since Ive been back in Luxor so many many people, (both friends and strangers) have asked me if I feel safe here. I suppose safety is a relative thing, isn’t it? We’ve seen the short video of the recent serious and violent trouble in Awamia but here is part of an email I received from a close friend a couple of days ago (her husband is 70. They live in a small town in the midlands)

“ Trying to get into the doctors or get a medical appointment is a joke. Mike needed to see a doctor so first he went through a telephone interview which took a week to arrange, then he was given an appointment in a further week's time. He waited outside for 20 mins and wasn't allowed to even park in the car park for some reason. He was seen in a porch with a door with a big gap at the top with nothing in it except an examining couch. He said he had to put his coat on the floor!! He needs a blood test, the first available one is 20th November. I just hope that we don't get anything more serious. My brother-in-law's front tooth fell out and he's been told it'll be a year before he can get it fixed.”

The truth is that healthwise I feel safer here than in the UK. At the very least here in Luxor I can see a doctor or dentist whenever I need but I suppose safety is a relative thing, isn’t it? (And I do think that FEELING safe does play a part in keeping healthy)



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Re: Safety??

Post by carrie »

I couldn't agree more and not only health wise do I feel safer,

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Re: Safety??

Post by carrie »

A friend here was recently diagnosed with an illness that required an immediate operation. Arrangements were made and off to Assuit we went next day. Day after that the operation. A few days to recover and back to Luxor.
She is doing very well thankfully but if she had been in the UK what with delays etc she would most probably be dead now.

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Re: Safety??

Post by newcastle »

I imagine the quality of surgeries in U.K. varies enormously. My own - in Poplar- serves a huge community but makes good use of online facilities. For any medical issue you submit an -e-consult and receive a reply or call from doctor within 48 hrs.

Obviously, you can call if you have a more urgent issue.

Blood tests etc and appointments are usually available within 7 days.

The restrictions imposed by COVID-19 are a nuisance....but have the advantage of deterring those who shouldn’t really be bothering the doctor at all :lol:

Heaven knows how those not internet- savvy cope.

I’ve had a number of “ emergency” issues and was in the Royal London within minutes. I have several regular reviews each year which normally entail sitting in the hospital clinic for hours. Now....the consultant calls me to discuss the results of blood tests, scans etc. Much better!

Dental issues....I usually have attended to in Egypt. Much cheaper! I’m not sure I’d be too comfortable with Egyptian doctors attending to my other problems....which is why my life is divided between the two countries.

Regarding the COVID-19 situation generally, the almost total absence of precautions in Egypt is unsettling. At least there’s some effort to comply in London. Fortunately, I keep myself to myself mostly so would be unlucky to catch it.

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Re: Safety??

Post by A-Four »

Today, I have had another good laugh about this subject from the usual characters who so 'live' in Luxor.

The facts are simply this, yes there is a so called international hospital in Luxor, I can assure all that it is ill equipped, there are NO specialised surgeon who reside in Luxor, for two very good reasons, 1) There are no suitable residential areas. 2) Egyptian people in Luxor, no matter how wealthy, only want to pay by instalments, as with a surgeon, if the patient dies, the family refuse to pays,.....sounds crazy, but true.

I know of three ex-pats would died in Luxor, because they could not get the emergency service we in the U.K. should be so grateful for, further more, I know of two contributors to this forum who certainly were lucky to get early warnings in Egypt, of what may seriously endanger their future life, both left Luxor rather swiftly,.......and Oh boy, are they grateful for the N.H.S. now. I wonder if either one of them would like to comment ?

Usually in Europe, 20% of first time heart attack patients die, in Egypt this is much higher, in Luxor it will be higher still. The nearest specialised heart hospital is Quenna, though in truth, this is a University Hospital, so the best in the area is up in Assuit, some 120 miles away,...good luck with getting there day or night, I'm sure the surgeon will hang around while you arrive.

I first lived in Egypt at a rather younger age than most, I used Cairo as my base to travel throughout the world rather than pay the European cartel air fares at that time. I loved my time in Egypt, and especially Luxor WB, my then country home, but a time came when I feared for my health, and security that has now long gone in Egypt, and knew then it was time to go.

Three friends died there who need not have, two, as I have said were very lucky, me, I enjoyed my younger life there, would I be there now ?, ..........not on anyone's life.

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Re: Safety??

Post by hatusu »

A-four wrote
"Today, I have had another good laugh about this subject from the usual characters who so 'live' in Luxor."

Why can you never reply to someone else’s post without sneering? Is no-one else entitled to an opinion?

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Re: Safety??

Post by Angela »

I actually agree with a lot of what Hatusu says about Healthcare here at the moment. While I would rather be in the UK during an emergency, I would actually rather be in Luxor for the day to day health requirements. I've personally found it very good very during the diagnostic phase. One summer I was in the UK and when to the UK with some unusual health symptoms and was sent away with my tail between my legs, no testing, just told it was probably in my mind. On my return, I had some tests and with 48 hours I had received full blood tests, been diagnosed with two chronic conditions, seen a consultant, and put on medication. As it turned out, my brother was diagnosed with the same condition back in the UK, but it took him several months to get to the same stage I was at in within 48 hours.

Also, while many specialists don't actually live in Luxor, many of them travel down from Cairo for say a week and do clinics. My son had a skin graft last year. The Plastic Surgeon did all the pre-ops, the surgery he was looked after by a very good nurse and we had Skype consultations with him until he came back 2 weeks later to do the follow-up. The fact he didn't actually live in Luxor made little difference especially as we also had his number to be able to call him directly. I also see an Endocrinologist, again, he doesn't live in Luxor but he does a clinic monthly so it makes little difference that he isn't in Luxor every day. I know that I have to wait a maximum of 3 weeks to see him between each appointment.Not that I need them that often.

Since the pandemic, we've had to see a couple of healthcare professionals. My son needed the Dentist and was seen and treated within a couple of days. A relative had kidney issues and has all manner of tests and appointments and was diagnosed within the week. Of course, Emergency care leaves a lot to be desired but for diagnostics it is actually surprisingly good and importantly, fast, especially if you make a point of educating yourself about health and can ask the right questions.

So, going back to Hatusu's comments, I agree. For day to day healthcare needs i.e dentistry, blood tests, scans, xrays and seeing specialists I would rather be in Egypt at the moment.This is what she was referring to, not Emergency care. My own Mum, back in the UK, has ended up in hospital in the High Dependency Unit, possibly due, in part, to the lack of care that she's received from her GP during this pandemic. I can't tell you how frustrating it is for an ill loved one not to be able to be seen face to face by a GP when it is very much needed.

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Re: Safety??

Post by Teddyboy »

That was a great post Angela. (Long time no see, by the way, I hope you're well etc.) We're really fortunate in Luxor, we have a GP on the ground floor of our building, a urologist/surgeon on the 1st floor, and a great dentist on the 2nd! I had a kidney stone which started hurting one evening, was diagnosed (10 mm!) and medication given the same night, and dissolved within 8 days. I couldn't have even got an appointment with our quack, in that time, here in the UK. It's a disgrace!

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Re: Safety??

Post by Angela »

Teddyboy wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:44 am
That was a great post Angela. (Long time no see, by the way, I hope you're well etc.) We're really fortunate in Luxor, we have a GP on the ground floor of our building, a urologist/surgeon on the 1st floor, and a great dentist on the 2nd! I had a kidney stone which started hurting one evening, was diagnosed (10 mm!) and medication given the same night, and dissolved within 8 days. I couldn't have even got an appointment with our quack, in that time, here in the UK. It's a disgrace!
I'm well thanks and hope you are too. Yes, I totally, agree diagnostics are excellent. I needed a Thyroid Scan, you have to wait for months in the UK to have one done, if you can even get past the gatekeeper (the GP). I looked into private, it was £350 plus extras. I had a an ultrasound done here in Luxor on my return from the summer. I walked into the Scanning clinic with no referral from a doctor, I just told them what I wanted. One hour later, I'd been scanned and was handed a full report along with images. It cost about 200le (about a tenner). I regularly have blood tests, again I can ask for what I want without a referral. Within three hours the results are available online and you can also go in and collect hard copy reports if you want them. Once I had a bloodtest, went shopping in KZ and by the time I'd got home, the results were already online - less than an hour.

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Re: Safety??

Post by hatusu »

What street is the Scanning Clinic on Angela please ?(for future reference if needed)

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Re: Safety??

Post by Angela »

It's called Radwania Scan and is on a side street off TV street. I don't know the name of the street but all taxi drivers know it, as it's well known.

They do MRI's, CT Scans, Ultrasound, Echo Cardiography, Multi Slice CT, Colour Doppler. They also do Interventional procedures, so CT or Ultrasound guided biopsies etc. I've become a bit of a scanning/testing junkie here as you can literally manage your own health and refer yourself to Consultant level specialists. I went to see an Eye, Nose and Throat Doctor last year because of a recurring throat problem. I decided I wanted to go in the morning, went that evening, had some tests done with the results the next day. He was great and he actually looked at me when talking to me, rather than at the computer screen. It would literally have taken months to have achieved the same thing in the UK. I'd had a six month long sore throat, it constantly hurt and the back of my mouth was always burning. It never stopped.I was worried I had throat cancer of something. I had some tests and it turned out I had developed an intolerance to coffee. I stopped drinking it and haven't had a sore throat since!

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Re: Safety??

Post by carrie »

I dont know the name but its the street off TV where the cable from the mast comes down and there is a great block of concrete in the middle of the street.
They really are good.

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Re: Safety??

Post by hatusu »

Thank you both of you - I recognise your description Carrie ie big block of concrete!
PS The intolerance to coffee is very interesting.

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Re: Safety??

Post by Angela »

Urgh. Sorry for all the typos above - I typed and hit send without checking. That should read ear, nose and throat above, amongst other glaring errors.

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Re: Safety??

Post by A-Four »

hatusu wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:33 pm
A-four wrote
"Today, I have had another good laugh about this subject from the usual characters who so 'live' in Luxor."

Why can you never reply to someone else’s post without sneering? Is no-one else entitled to an opinion?
The' 'sneering' as you suggest here, is because at every opportunity on this site you banging on, how bad the N.H.S. is with regards your family in the U.K. The facts are quite simply this, if anyone is not happy with a G.P. you change, with best results being joining a group practice, being that a such practice has a stronger budget.

I live in what is called the City of London, it has perhaps the best G.P. service in the country, though I have remained with my G.P. service in one of the poorest areas of London, the East End, simply because I believe their service is the best.

The reason why you are getting a A.1. service in Luxor for your tests is because you are paying the going price, and although very reasonable for you, not so for the poor Egyptian people. Such private tests carried out in the U.K., would cost a lot more for simple reasons. When it come to major operations in Egypt, most on here would get a big shock as to the price, and even more so in an emergency.

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Re: Safety??

Post by A-Four »

Teddyboy wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:44 am
! I had a kidney stone which started hurting one evening, was diagnosed (10 mm!) and medication given the same night, and dissolved within 8 days. I couldn't have even got an appointment with our quack, in that time, here in the UK. It's a disgrace!
I find it very difficult to believe that a 10 mm kidney stone would have "started hurting one evening". You state here it was "dissolved within 8 days". I can only assume that you was treated using the Lithotripsy method, that actually if successful breaks down the stone into smaller parts after repeated treatments, each lasting perhaps 30 minutes each session. You were very lucky that this treatment was successful. To fragment (not dissolve) such a size stone even after treatment could certainly cause severe pain passing even 2.5 mm or less fragment.

In the U.K., I am sure a simple minor procedure under general anaesthetic would have been a much safer and quicker option, especially for a man. The pain from such a stone as yours most people would simply dial 999, the procedure would be carried out the same day.

If you had been given the stone Teddyboy, you could have had it analysed, the results would tell you what foods to avoid in future.

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Re: Safety??

Post by DJKeefy »

The other side of the coin.

I have been siluffering from ptsd and servere anxiety since coming back to the the UK, I've not yet had any problems with the NHS.
A couple of weeks ago due to some unwanted side effects from one of the tablets I am on they wanted to check my blood for hepatitis C ( maybe cause I lived in Egypt) and also for platelets, I saw my doctor within 2 days,, I could have had one the next day but it would have been a different doctor due to my doctor having his day off, i choose my doctor,, my non fasting blood test was the next day, the doctor also wanted me to have a brain scan(mri), I received a letter 2 days later with my appointment ifor the next 3 days,
My blood test came back OK within 3 to 4 days, my results was ok accept for low folic acid (i think b12) which the doctor put me on folic acid for 3 months, I also was pre diabetic, the doctor referred me to a pre diabetic program, I had my brain scan and they found a shadow on the left side of the brain which the doctor and neurology team was unsure about, I was sent the same day to the hospital for more tests, now I am awaiting the results and probably more tests.
All free on the NHS, thank god for our NHS.

Just another praise of the NHS, when I was removed from Egypt the NHS found a blood clot in my leg which was from the pot Luxor international hospital badly put on my broken knee cap, the NHS told me it was a good job I came home else I could have been dead within 3 to 7 days I was put on warfarin for 3 months.

I praise the NHS :)
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Re: Safety??

Post by newcastle »

Likewise, I’ve got nothing but praise for the NHS.....having been a regular “customer “ for the last three years. I’ve never had any detrimental waits.....and the cost of my treatment, had I had to pay, would have been ruinous.

The GP service is under tremendous strain, partly because of COVID-19, partly because of a decade of austerity and I’ve seen anecdotal reports of people experiencing problems, late diagnoses etc. All I can say is that I’ve been unaffected.....luck....who knows.

I haven’t had a lot of contact with health services in Egypt. I had a painful encounter with a lion fish a couple of weeks ago. Fortunately we have a hospital specialising in diving issues in Hurghada. They sorted it out quickly.

Four years ago the hospital in El Gouna correctly identified a tumour. I went to London for the follow up treatment.

The hospital in Hurghada was less successful in identifying the cause of acute stomach pains a couple of years ago. With an ultrasound showing nothing, they simply gave me medication for a stomach bug. I was travelling to London a few days later. Just as well...my duodenum ruptured (the pain was due to it leaking) and I spent the next month in intensive care and a further 5 months in hospital. Had I not travelled to London, I would have died.

Swings and roundabouts 😎

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Re: Safety??

Post by Angela »

A-Four wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:23 pm
hatusu wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:33 pm
A-four wrote
"Today, I have had another good laugh about this subject from the usual characters who so 'live' in Luxor."

Why can you never reply to someone else’s post without sneering? Is no-one else entitled to an opinion?
The' 'sneering' as you suggest here, is because at every opportunity on this site you banging on, how bad the N.H.S. is with regards your family in the U.K. The facts are quite simply this, if anyone is not happy with a G.P. you change, with best results being joining a group practice, being that a such practice has a stronger budget.

I live in what is called the City of London, it has perhaps the best G.P. service in the country, though I have remained with my G.P. service in one of the poorest areas of London, the East End, simply because I believe their service is the best.

The reason why you are getting a A.1. service in Luxor for your tests is because you are paying the going price, and although very reasonable for you, not so for the poor Egyptian people. Such private tests carried out in the U.K., would cost a lot more for simple reasons. When it come to major operations in Egypt, most on here would get a big shock as to the price, and even more so in an emergency.
You've actually missed the point here though, A-Four. Nobody is disputing that it is far easier for us to have the means to pay for treatment than poor Egyptians. But that wasn't Hatusu's point, was it? Her point was that for her, it is easier to obtain day to day healthcare here in Luxor than in the UK DURING THE PANDEMIC.

The original post was about the ease of accessing basic healthcare, not major operations, unless I'm missing something. Hatusu was referring specifically to the problems accessing care during the pandemic so changing GP's will not necessarily overcome this.

I certainly would not have a shock at the cost of operations here. I had one in Cairo in 2006, my son had one last year and I have various family members here in Luxor who have been operated on, privately, over the last 20 years. I've also had private treatment back in the UK so I am fully aware of the cost of even 30 minutes of a consultant's time. As a rule, operations in Egypt are less expensive than a comparable operation in the UK, whilst still being a significant amount of money. For example, my Cairo operation (2006) cost the equivalent of approx £1500 GBP, the same operation at that time was around £3.5k privately in the UK.

Why do you suggest that we are somehow naive about the realities of healthcare here in Luxor? I think most of us are very much aware of the negative aspects, as well as some positives. I know of several people that have died over the years due to the poor healthcare they've received, it's usually because they do not have the money to pay for private care and have to rely on the International Hospital...say no more.

Likewise, nobody is knocking the NHS, unless I am missing something. In fact, that is one thing you will never see me do, when I vote, top of my agenda is always what each party will do for the NHS. It needs to be protected and properly funded. 10 years ago my Mum had spinal surgery on the NHS, it would have cost $130k in the US . I had eye surgery on the NHS when I was 4 and I would be walking around blind in one eye if it were not for them.

Sadly, at the moment there are many people that are struggling to access healthcare back in the UK, due to the pandemic. Women are not getting smears and breast examinations carried out in a timely fashion. People with a horrendous toothache cannot access dentists and so on. Others may not be able to get a face to face appointment when it is very much needed. Of course, this is not a blanket statement and some people will have been able to access their healthcare provider with ease. These are of course unprecedented times and nothing is ever black or white.

It is too early to be able to look at statistics on how non-covid 19 patients have been impacted over the last few months However, I consider the Health Foundation a reputable source and you may find it useful to read it so that you understand the challenges that many (not all) patients are facing.

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... -of-impact

Furthermore, The British Medical Journal states the following:

"As the NHS works out how to restart routine services with the ongoing risk of outbreaks, primary care will be put under additional strain by delayed presentations, investigations, and treatment; poorly controlled long term conditions; a rise in mental illness; the need to deliver the largest flu vaccination campaign to date; the effects of “long covid”; and widened socioeconomic inequalities due to covid-19 and the associated response."

This basically serves as an acknowlegement to Hatusu's comments that the NHS has been put under strain in regards to the management of Chronic illness, investigations and delayed treatments.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3353

Have a great day :br

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Re: Safety??

Post by Who2 »

Regarding the NHS, the only time I have been able to see my Doctor in the last 9 months,
was him popping into Pret a manger, viewed from the pub.
My question regarding health in Egypt:

Can anyone recommend a good quality Insurance scheme valid in Egypt ?
As the Health Center there seems to prefer them, cheers.... 8)
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

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