EgyptAir Suicide

Advice, information and discussion about Egypt in general.

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EgyptAir Suicide

Post by Hafiz » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:41 pm

EgyptAir Suicide.

‘The 2016 crash of a Paris-Cairo EgyptAir flight that killed all 66 people on board was a result of a lack of maintenance and the plane should never have taken off, according to an experts’ report commissioned by France’s justice ministry

….. an earlier suggestion by Egyptian authorities that a bomb may have been the cause.

….. authorities in Egypt had apparently not followed up calls for further investigations.


…. The two experts commissioned by French judges in charge of the dossier highlighted some twenty warnings pointing to recurring faults during the plane’s five flights before the crash.

….. The experts also expressed doubts about the skills of the Egyptian technician who gave the green light for take-off in Paris.’ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-egyp ... SKCN1RE25P

Egypt ia still sticking to the unproven view that the crash was the fault of the dirty filthy French. It is not co=operating with the French.

Another ill managed government authority controlled by military types not made better by the fact that many of the technicians and pilots are military trained which explains why its airforce always looses - '56, '67 and '73.Its silent in this Yemen war and hasn't helped out the allies in Iraq/Syria/Afghanistan in the last decade or three. In the Yugoslav war it left the protection of Muslims to Bill Clinton. Its airforce is a cardboard joke - an expensive one.

Travel at your own risk.

Its accumulated losses are in the $US1-3 billion range - no annual report nor accounts produced because of national security - or fear of belng laughed at or loosing their jobs. Its sale price loaded up with debt of $US10-20 billion is less than zero. Its staffing is greater than that of the world's largest Emirates although it is only 10%-20% of the size - probably less.



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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by Horus » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:26 pm

Hafiz, I think you will find that the protection of the Muslims of Bosnia was at the request of the United Nations Secretary General Boutros Boutros Ghali, after the UN failed to deal with the conflict. He requested the assistance of The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) to assist in military operations. Over 5000 personnel and 400 aircraft from 15 nations were involved, most of Europe with the exception of Greece took some roll, so hardly leaving it to Bill Clinton to protect them.
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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by crewmeal » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:27 am

Hafiz you say suicide but IF it was plagued with technical faults it couldn't be that. Saying that if true I'm sure the EU would ban the carrier from operating within Eurpoean boundaries such as Turkmenistan who are banned on safety issues.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news ... banned-eu/

However regarding MS804 there are plenty of conspiricy theories on YouTube.


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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by newcastle » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:37 am

Perhaps Hafiz was suggesting that anyone travelling on Egyptair must have suicidal tendencies. :lol:

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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by John Landon » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:25 am

On the bright side, if like the Pharaohs you plan on taking everything with you to the afterlife, then Egyptair do have a very generous luggage allowance.... 8)

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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by FarleyFlavors » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:29 am

Hafiz wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:41 pm
Its staffing is greater than that of the world's largest Emirates although it is only 10%-20% of the size - probably less.
Are you sure about this?

A quick search reveals that Egyptair have around 9,000 employees compared to Emirates' 65,000.

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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by carrie » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:17 am

Loved that John Landon still laughing.

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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by Major Thom » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:11 pm

Nothing is our fault, so don't try and pin the blame on us...Seems to be the attitude. Maybe the new slogan should be "Fly at your own risk"

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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by Hafiz » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:41 am

Correct. Emirates employs over 100,000 staff in planes, food, ground staff and airports for a fleet of about 300 planes – a bit difficult to be certain.

The figure you quote for EgyptAir is certainly not correct but I can’t prove that.

In 2014 Egyptair had 31,000 employees many times the number of the next largest Egyptian airline. It has expanded by 20% since then so company like Emirates which is 5-10 times the size has prorata 50% fewer staff to 1/20th.Its notable that Emirates has always had western management and pretty good management at that whereas Egypt Air doesn't even advertise its jobs and not its Executive jobs - always Egyptian and always with no experience of working with a company that gets it right.

In a peer reviewed statistical survey Journal of Air Transport Management Egyptair was the least efficient airline in Africa where African airlines lagged the world. On this basis there is an argument that Egyptair is the least efficient airline in the world.

http://www.coppead.ufrj.br/upload/publi ... ._2015.pdf
Egypt Air sales force is plagued by high absenteeism and low morale and is deeply dissatisfied with its own management, according to a confidential study commissioned by Hazem Hassan’s research firm.
Employees believe that their management is not committed to high-quality customer service, they do not trust management to keep its word and they doubt their own competence, the study by Hazem Hassan KPMG found.

Their report, obtained by The Business Today magazine shows that the vast majority of employees at Egypt’s Air telephone-based sales centers perceive themselves as under skilled and overworked.
Eighty per cent said they lacked the necessary skills to do the full range of tasks required in their job and ninety-two per cent said their workload was excessive.
https://businessspring.wordpress.com/20 ... egypt-air/ although 2012

I stretched my point too far but my bigger view is based on the vast holdings of airports – many of them in non-places/seasonal places and the numbers of staff there – doing little or nothing. That workforce, with work being an irony, is very large.

My overstatement took into account the several dozen airports in Egypt as follows.

Although its difficult to get clear info from the Egyptian media occasional slips reveal information about the backgrounds of individuals. For example the heads of the Cairo Airport Company is a General as is the head of the Egyptian Company for Airports and probably also the head of the Aeronautical Corporation. http://cementegypt.com/en/category-ceme ... ounds.html

The airports aim to build hubs but that is bull which ignores how the world actually works and how few real hubs there are and how most are based on international capital cities with 12 months tourism, major conventions and 12 months business traffic.

EypptAir and the Egyptian Holding Corporation for Airports and Air Navigation want to make Cairo an airport hub – it won’t work for at least two reasons. New plane design will mean that airports like Cairo will be leapfrogged by the new long distance planes. Second international operators don’t like stopping in Cairo. At least 6 who used call in have stopped. The reasons include that the fuel quality is poor, the maintenance staff poorly trained, screened and managed and the security amongst the worst in the world. If you are a long distance 5 star carrier with expensive planes and tourists you only stop in Egypt if you have to. Air France stopped its flights in May 2018, and of the remaining ones only about 3 could be said to be safe and world standard, many of them are on the horror list.

Meanwhile the Holding Company is becoming an IT firm and claims that its IT is “the world's leading specialist in Airports Information Management Systems and infrastructure solutions.” http://www.avit.com.eg/index.php/avit-p ... y-overview. What rot. As if anyone buys its services or products. It can’t even tell the truth because several of its claimed clients for IT either don’t exist or went broke ages ago.

The owner of government owned Egyptian Airports is the statutory Egyptian Holding Company for Airports and Air Navigation. Almost nothing is known about it. Bloomberg which contains information on millions of companies doesn’t know who their Chief Executive or Board are. The corporate intelligence service which specializes in the region, Zawya, knows nothing either. Its Chairman (obtained from local media sources that are far from reliable) is a chap called Mahrous who is conflicted. He controls and regulates airports but appears to be an employee and Board member of EgyptAir. So he is both judge and the accused at the same time. The Minister is the chair of the Holding Company but he was, and probably continues, as chair of EgyptAir. Again poacher as guard.

The Holding Company database has statistics on its activities which defy logic. For example it says passenger movements at Luxor Airport were up year on year by 27% over the same month in 2016. They say Hurghada was up 62%, Sharm by 81%. They say that in November 2016 Luxor had an average of 31 flights per day with each flight having an average of 64 passengers. Is any of this believable?

Egyptian Holding Company for Airports and Air Navigation is not only responsible for the buildings but for security – where it has performed ‘less than well’. It thought it was on top of security and proudly announced, before the troubles, its use of state of the art technology at Hurghada. https://www.sita.aero/pressroom/news-re ... da-airport It failed.

The New Administrative Capital is to have its own International Airport, (a total of 4 for Cairo that no one travels to) its part of the approved plan, located, wait for it, on pre-existing Wadi al Jandali Airport currently used by the Egyptian Air Force. The President has announced that this new airport will be larger than Heathrow (80 million passengers) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 20211.html. So Cairo will have three International airports, two only 20ks away from each other and two under the same ‘management’. One is brand new, one is being built from scratch and one has had hundreds of millions recently put into it. Wow.https://centreforaviation.com/data/prof ... ty-airport. The one that will be larger than Heathrow will make it the largest or second largest in the world and might operate at 10% capacity which would mean billions, possibly tens of billions wasted.

Its just another hysterical announcement to make the locals feel other than broke third world.

Why not build a another one. Poor old New York will just have to survive with two to reflect its feminine inferiority to the resurgent male power of Egypt. To build an airport larger than Heathrow would cost at least $US50 billion which exceeds the whole announced budget for the entire New Administrative Capital – but that is just a small detail. Some say the Capital City budget will exceed $US300 billion but again that is a mere detail. Nothing can be built for that.

Sohag (Formerly Mubarak International Airport city/regional population approx.. 200,000-600,00) was opened in 2010, has no regular international flights, has never had any international flights, has a VIP lounge, 33 buildings, no maintenance for planes, is in the middle of nowhere, has no transport system connecting it with Sohag City which is 35ks away, has parking for 400 cars and 25 buses (which is hardly used), can handle an Airbus320, and claims a substantial volume of traffic with the Middle East – which is a gross exaggeration. Unexpectedly (and unbelievably) official capacity is given as 3.5 million a year so its operating atleast at 1/7th capacity and probably loosing money hand over fist. Probably at 1/60TH capacity http://www.eac-airports.com/index.php/e ... ports/suhg

Sphinx International Airport – well not really – it’s the commercial redevelopment of the former Cairo West Airbase owned by the Egyptian Military Airforce. It appears in history – the British destroyed it in 1956 and the Jews bombed and destroyed it possibly twice. In all three cases the glorious Egyptian Airforce didn’t get many of its planes into the air which makes you wonder about abilities in their main line of work. Nowadays they want to move on from past achievements and make money and compete with the state owned Cairo International Airport.

Some facts for Sphinx. No public transport links, an underdeveloped adjacent road system, right on top of adjacent gated, socially segregated and possibly fortified housing precinct (an easy exit to the airport if you need to get out of the country quick when things turn bad) at Sheikh Zayed, Palm Hills, Dream Land etc (places populated by a few who might need to get out quick if the population works out what is really going on), a single runway (who ever heard of an international airport with a single runway – sounds more like an airstrip), an immediately co-located Central Security Services Compound (K33) full of people with guns to protect you, hardly any hotels within staggering distance, adjacent population difficult to determine and government stats less than reliable but probably a couple of hundred thousand, over 30ks from Central Cairo,

At least EGP300 million has been spent on it but whose money is not clear. At this budget it sounds a death trap.

The justification for building it is “to ease pressure on Cairo’s main airport.” http://www.egyptindependent.com/inaugur ... xt-summer/ but the main old airport is only operating at 50% capacity and loosing money and is 60ks in the opposite direction so this argument by the Supreme Shooters is rot. The Ministers other justification is that the “airport will serve tourists to visit the Grand Egyptian Museum (GEM) and the Great Pyramids of Giza.” – but that is a crazy idea. Who is going to fly into Cairo just to see the Pyramids and Museum and not check into an hotel first – and there are no hotels near this airport.

Cairo international airport used to be under qold standard German management (Fraport), but the German’s left/kicked out in early 2014. The Government of Egypt seems to manage it now.

Cairo International was originally built by the Americans in WW2 – although this is now suppressed information. Maybe in light of recent events it should be burnt down by the Government of Egypt as an example of US/Jewish Imperialism.

Terminal 2 was built in 2006 and Terminal 3 in 2009. There were further renovations, probably decorative and ceremonial, beginning in 2009 to produce an airport tailored to VIP’s by the legion – but I think mainly Egyptian VIP’S. Many private lounges and sitting/drawing rooms decorated in tasteless gilded Louis Farouk furniture have consumed 10’s of millions $. Terminal 2 had to be closed in 2009 (probably because of design flaws) for a $400 million (actually a lot more) 36 month refurbishment (probably a start again bulldozer job) to take 36 months (it took twice as long) to produce an overall capacity of 30 million pa. At the moment its operating at about 50% capacity so its probably loosing money – and big time given the hundreds of millions invested/borrowed.

A fourth terminal, the Seasonal Terminal, was opened in 2011/12. Its precise purpose and cost and who paid for it is completely unclear.

TB 3 at Cairo International, opened in 2009, was designed to expand capacity to 22 million passengers (the World Bank says 26 million capacity), about 50% achieved and more than half funded by the World Bank. TB2 at Cairo International also seems to have been funded by the World Bank. http://projects.worldbank.org/P101201/c ... b2?lang=en. The November 2016 World Bank evaluation of the 2009 investment shows that the Government has not provided data on passenger movements and processing time and has not, after 7 years, met agreed benchmarks including: ‘reached level B of IATA level of service” That means service was no good – who would be surprised. http://projects.worldbank.org/P101201/c ... ab=results. Unusually the earlier and larger World Bank investment in the Cairo Airport contains no evaluation on success. http://projects.worldbank.org/P082914/e ... ab=results. Almost all the details of all the grants to Egypt produce the same response – document not available on cost/effectiviness.

Therefore its clear that Cairo International has been flooded with cheap capital and can’t manage what it has. Needless to say its under government/uniformed management.

About 80% of the retail/duty free shop floor space was ‘given to’ a company with proven poor skills in retail and service – EgyptAir. What EgyptAir knows about shops I’ll leave to you but you would think they should stick to running a loss-making third rate airline – and trying to do it better.

A related ‘wandering off’ move by the Airport Authority were 2013 negotiations with unknown UK based ‘aviation’ firm to build a $US20 billion “Airport City” on 2500 acres near the Cairo International airport. The UK company had no experience in building or property development and no financial weight. The then Minister, Wael el-Maadawy, a former General and deputy head of the Armed Forces and previous head of the Holding Company for Airports, announced the plan as finalized and that similar would soon be done for the Alex and Sinai Airports with hotels restaurants and other vague things promised. http://www.theafricanaviationtribune.co ... llion.html . The Authority promised that 125,000 jobs would be created according to its then head Essmat http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... ion-c.aspx

Nothing happened except diverted time from the screaming need to manage better what was in hand.

ADP the French company used to manage Luxor but they seem to have met a similar fate and kicked out. I think its fair to say that all airports in Egypt have been under uniformed management since 2014 – which is about the time the trouble started. ADP managed Charles de Gaulle at the time of the EgyptAir crash which, given the blame Egypt hurled at the French security, must have involved irony. http://www.parisaeroport.fr/en/group/gr ... /expertise

Assuit International out in the middle of nowhere 35ks from the city according to the official government website has only 800 passengers a year – hard to believe. http://www.eac-airports.com/index.php/e ... ut-airport

Marsa Alam also has a new international Airport. Its mainly seasonal traffic so that’s about 4 months of the year. It was also formerly known as Mubarak Airport. Opened in 2003 its privately owned by Kuwaitis and Egyptians of unclear identity. Its located in the middle of nowhere about 60ks north of the town but with a few nearby resorts. It does not seem to be integrated into the local transport system but I guess building an integrated transport system was on no ones mind. It probably takes no more than 1 million passengers a year but the government keeps quiet about mere matters like this.

Like most of the airports the high demand is for a maximum of half the year which would lead sane people to be careful about too much fixed investment – but no in Egypt.

Hurghada International Airport is state owned and has had a lot of new, probably free or cheap aid money from the Arab Development Fund. In 2012 amidst the tourist collapse it spent $US90 million to extend its runways – Orascom got the contract without any prior experience in this field and on a non-competitive bid.

In 2014 not frightened by the collapse of tourism it doubled its capacity even though existing capacity in the good times had not been exceeded. Its capacity is now 13 million a year which is of course very seasonal and there is the continued problem of a high cost fixed asset which is only used occasionally. At least $US350 million was spent at this time. https://english.alarabiya.net/en/busine ... sion-.html. Again there is no integration with local ground transport systems – if indeed any exist. The official figures of the Egyptian government paint a bleaker picture for this and give current usage at 806,000 pa - so current capacity is 15 times usage.

Sharm Internationl – the government claims to own it but a Swiss CompanyABB Equity and SESAM paid $US170 million upfront in 2001 for a 25 year concession (the meaning of which is unclear). A new terminal was opened in 2007and runway to handle 7 million. http://www.airport-technology.com/proje ... l-airport/. I guess the deal fell apart but the compensation to the Swiss has never been revealed but must have been huge. At the moment the government claims to be the operator – but who knows. As with the others its out in the middle of nowhere, 25ks from the town, not connected to any transport system.

The ownership of the Swiss company is not clear but that country was the location of all the dirty Egyptian money under Mubarak.

Recent investment of approx.. $US500 million will increase capacity to more than 18 million (a little smaller than Dulles International at Washington DC) although there seems to be new debt of at least $US170 million for very strange and vague purposes: https://dailynewsegypt.com/2015/03/18/a ... -chairman/ but its hard to get a general picture because there is no public plan, just impulsive ad hoc deals, and the Holding Company issues no annual report. The Egyptian Government website says that current usage is 870,000 so planned expansion will be 20 times current demand. http://www.eac-airports.com/index.php/e ... kh-airport. What type of rational thinking is that.

To be continued because I have too much evidence/footnotes to fit in one post.
Last edited by Hafiz on Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by Hafiz » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:42 am

Continued.

Luxor has had mountains of cash thrown at it over the years. At the moment its probably taking about half a million a year but that’s probably optimistic. In 2006/05 it was expanded to 4000 passengers per hour and a new cargo facility added. Its ownership is a bit unclear because whilst the government claims ownership a thesis of 2011 states that there is partial ownership/control by a French company (25 year concession) but I think that was just a management contract with a nice up front capital payment that went somewhere. In any event the world class French airport managers were driven out years ago and its now entirely mismanaged by the Egyptian government. http://www.cpas-egypt.com/pdf/WalidElsh ... c/M.Sc.pdf The thesis is supine and Mubarak worshiping and written by an engineer with no financial knowledge – a bit like his profession in general. Read it if you want evidence for the proposition – never employ an Egyptian engineer to run a company/business or allow them close to money.

The official government website says its current usage is about 197,000 passengers pa.

Overwhelmingly Luxor is a domestic airport taking flights from Cairo – all/most via EgyptAir. The number of international flights is slight – about 10%. The pattern of its business could be the choice of international airlines – or not. For example Egypt Air and its affiliates have a de facto monopoly on internal flights. Others can’t do them whether they are Egyptian or not. Also landing slots are decided by government – which owns EgyptAir and the aiports. It is the governments interest to maintain EgyptAirs profitability (it hasn’t made money in ages and not even in the tourist boom – let alone after 2011 (Its accumulated losses are hard to determine because its annual report of vague or worse and not signed by an auditor – Accumulated losses are probably $US2-3 billion and increasing) and that means keeping international flights down and maintaining their high cost internal flights. Therefore neither the airport, the EgyptAir nor the Egyptian Holding Company for Airports and Air Navigation acts in the interests of Luxor – they act in their own interests and they are all loosing money.

Borg al Arab/Arabi in Alex is a bit like the new Heathrow in Cairo. It was created from scratch by Mubarak from 2009 (maybe first started in 2005) as part of his plan for a New Alexandria. A new Alexandria was to be gated, middle class or better, cut off from everything else, well away from the unwashed, built by his friends, free land and infrastructure – you know the routines.

With only one or two exceptions the airlines that use it are a risk to all passengers. It handles a moderate 1.2 million passengers a year in its new facilities which are out in the middle of nowhere 43 k’s from Alex.. How much it cost to build, who paid for it and whether it makes a profit are mysteries. It would seem that the Japs provided cheap finance of about $US100 million for an ‘upgrade’ in 2010 which was built by friends. This report says that its capacity is 4.5 million a year. http://www.airport-technology.com/proje ... g-el-arab/

The Holding Company signed a contract to build a new terminal for the major Cairo Airport with a Japanese government loan of $US230 million (how you build a new terminal with just $US230 million is anyone’s guess) it’s a 40 year loan at 1/100th of a percent so I think the money is a gift. Its to serve 4 million passengers a year. (The Egyptian Government website says it has about 700,000 a year currently so they are building something 6 times current demand. http://www.eac-airports.com/index.php/e ... ab-airport.) Very oddly there was a public signing ceremony 3 years ago with the very sane parties and for the very same purpose. http://bilateralchamber.org/japan-funds ... b-airport/. I guess when there is good news you should just keep repeating it after intervals following which the public might have forgotten it. http://bilateralchamber.org/japan-funds ... b-airport/

El Nouzha Airport or Alexandria International Airport in Alex used to take 1.5 million passengers a year but was closed for $US120-170 million renovations in 2011 to be reopened in 2013. There is no new date for its re-opening, no progress report on the ‘renovations’ and no idea on what happens next. Something is going on because US high tech firms are working on it https://www.airport-technology.com/cont ... el-nouzha/ and satellite photos show that the landing surfaces have been upgraded. Before it closed down few international airlines used it and its main user by far was EgyptAir. It was never integrated into the Alex transportation system. Why money is being spent on 2 Alex airports at the same time and why neither is integrated into the transport system is a mystery


Back to our friends EgyptAir. It’s a very odd airline and no international audit firm will sign its financial statements so all you can go on is what it says about itself. Even its own story is not good: One, its been loosing lots of money since 2011 and is probably still loosing. Second, and remarkably, its expanded its workforce by 20% as tourism collapsed and its was loosing money. Third, as passengers collapsed and losses accumulated it expanded its plane numbers by 25%. Fourth, It never made much money, even in good times. Fifth, It has a shocking safety track record (killed more than 502) and has been coy on all previous ‘trouble’ and rarely, if ever, fessed up to it.

Most ratings of the airline are not good – or worse: https://www.airlineratings.com/ratings/ ... r-express/
and http://www.newsweek.com/quora-question- ... ord-463269

Its not the worst in the region, there are worse in this benighted region, but others, including those with much bigger networks, have killed not a single person. Here is the local list of good guys – a number of which also get much higher ratings for service, food etc: Emirates, Etihad, Qatar Airways and Tunisair. https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdud ... t-airline/

A little known fact, which works to EgyptAirs advantage, is that many high status airlines aren’t keen to fly into Egypt – because the servicing and refueling is not good and, in particular, the ground security on both staff and new passengers is poor. So staying away improves your plane security, saves lives – and improves EgyptAir revenues. Odd how a local weakness can benefit Egypt. (Given 70 years of military government, decades of near continuous emergency laws/military law and one of the largest armies and police forces/Secret Police in the world its unclear why security was ever an issue).

Given all the performance/management issues, the previous growth of the fleet and low current occupancy you would think they would focus not on ‘big image’ high celebrity expensive purchases of overseas planes but the hard, low cost work of fixing decades old internal problems – but no.

I leave it to you to workout how a country that depends on tourism can operate such a bad airline, stick to poor performance for decades and how restricting competition works to Egypt’s overall advantage. Still supporting consistent poor performance is a social justice priority and should win a Guardian award.

The Yugoslav war point is that the effort was overwhelmingly US although done under Nato. The killing of Muslims was a big issue yet no Muslim country, and I think not Turkey in NATO, helped not one jot. The diplomatic initiative which led to the NATO bombings did not come from the UK or useless France but from Clinton. The on the ground peacekeeping was non Muslim. My other points stick on Egyptian Airforce in Iraq 1,2 and 3 and Afgan. They are doing nothing in Yemen at the moment whilst the UAE and Saudi mess it up. The Egyptian Airforce did have a major 'victory' in Yemen in 65-67 and gassed about 7,000 civilians with weapons of mass destruction with Mubarak running it - a war crime - but they still lost that war. Nasser was also a war criminal for that illegal slaughter.

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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by newcastle » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:33 am

My experience of EgyptAir is limited to domestic flights but even they give me some concerns. The crew attitude to basic safety is, at times, appalling with passengers allowed to access the overhead lockers while the plane is landing.....watched by the cabin crew, buckled into their seats and chatting happily on their mobile phones or to each other!

The airline also has the well known Egyptian disease of refusing to admit even part responsibility or blame when things go wrong. I think they have yet to concede that the Sinai crash was the result of a bomb.

They still maintain the LAX-CAI via JFK 1999 disaster was due to mechanical faults despite the pilot’s last words on the black box recorder indicating suicide!

All in all, it’s an airline I would avoid if there were any sensible alternative.

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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by Hafiz » Fri May 10, 2019 4:16 am

Newcastle they do and ignore that they sent an investigation team to NYC to investigate his molestation of women in a NY hotel, dismissed him but let him pilot his last flight across the Atlantic. Firm evidence of not just sleazy air staff but stupid investigators who gave power to an angry and aggrieved man.

The investigators should have been disciplined - what is the betting they weren't.

Because the plane wen't down outside Egyptian jurisdiction, Egypt had no data. All the data was a suicide but all the data was denied, on no logical basis, by Egypt.

Oddly there were 7-11 Egyptian generals on the flight and its not impossible that the angry molester at the end of his career was aware of this and took action to damage the military leadership/his employers - speculation on my part.

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Re: EgyptAir Suicide

Post by crewmeal » Fri May 10, 2019 6:14 am

Judge for yourselves.


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