Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Advice, information and discussion about Egypt in general.

Moderators: DJKeefy, 4u Network

User avatar
DJKeefy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10778
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 807 times
Been thanked: 1815 times
Gender:
Egypt

Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by DJKeefy » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:01 am

Azza El Garf, a prominent member of the Freedom and Justice Party, the political wing of the Muslim Brotherhood and one of just 11 female parliamentarians in Egypt, has publicly denounced the 2008 ban on genital cutting (or female genital cutting, ‘FGM’) for Egyptian women.

“It is a personal decision and each woman can decide based on her needs. If she needs it, she can go to a doctor”, El Garf said, adding that the Muslim Brotherhood refers to FGM as beautification plastic surgery.

El Garf maintains that it is a woman’s choice, and hers alone, to choose to undergo the currently outlawed procedure in consultation with a medically-trained professional.

The reality however, for most women and girls who undergo FGM, is that it is often characterized by a lack of choice.

In 2005, a UNICEF report on FGM reported the practice was almost universal among Egyptian women of reproductive age, with an astounding 97 per cent having undergone the procedure. That figure has declined little since then.

Outside Egypt, the procedure is usually performed on girls between the ages of 9 to 12 years, prior to the onset of puberty, but the UNICEF report recorded the average age of girls undergoing FGM in Egypt was lower, at seven to 11 years old.

Children are not likely to be asked for their view, as Newsnight‘s Sue Lloyd-Roberts discovered when interviewing an Egyptian mother;

‘”Of course she must be circumcised,” said Olla, referring to the timid 11-year-old girl sitting beside her.

‘I asked Olla if I could find out from the child herself, her daughter Raaja, who sat shaking with fear, what she thought.

‘”There is no need to ask her,” her mother declared. “She doesn’t understand what we are talking about”.’

Initially, the Egyptian government banned FGM in hospitals in 1996, but because licensed practitioners were still allowed to perform the surgery elsewhere, the practice continued.

The Egyptian government implemented a full legal ban in 2007, following the death of Badour Shaker, a 12-year-old child who overdosed on anesthesia in an illegal clinic after the procedure.

FGM, or female circumcision as it is called by its proponents, is the practice of partially or totally removing the external female genitalia.

It can range from the most minor procedure involving the removal of the clitoris to the most severe form, where all external genitalia are removed and the vaginal opening is stitched nearly closed.

FGM is often done in unsanitary environments, using basic tools for doing the cutting and most often with the permission and assistance of mothers.


In Egypt two types are commonly practiced.

Type 1 involves removing the clitoris and Type 2 is the removal of the clitoris and the labia or the “lips” that surround the vagina; both mean removing those sensitive parts of female genitalia which make the sexual act a pleasurable one.

Female sexual pleasure is deemed to be incompatible with the concepts of “purity”, “honour” and “tradition” which lie at the heart of FGM in Egypt.

The principal justification lies in the belief that the procedure reduces the uncontrollable sexual desire of a female, thereby helping maintain a girl’s virginity prior to marriage and her fidelity thereafter, thus ensuring a daughter’s future marriage prospects

Despite being denounced by the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Ali Gomaa, in 2010, some religious leaders claim FGM is sanctioned by the Quran.

But in reality it has no doctrinal foundation; it is practiced by both Muslims and Coptic Christians in Egypt, illustrating its cultural basis.

Unlike male circumcision, female circumcision has no health benefits.

Immediate complications can include severe pain, shock, haemorrhage, bacterial infection, urine retention, open sores in the genital region and injury to nearby genital tissue.

Long-term, aside from reducing any sexual pleasure, side-effects of FGM can include psychological trauma, infertility and a higher risk of complications during childbirth.

El Garf’s support for the legalization of female circumcision, her opposition to resurrecting the National Women’s Council and to the “liberalisation of divorce” is a reflection of her conservative values as an affiliate of the Muslim Brotherhood:

“Family is the most important part of life,” El Garf said, adding that the husband’s job was to feed his wife and care about his family because together they are one.

“The woman’s job is to make him happy,” she added. “In Western society everybody is an individual. That system doesn’t work here.”

El-Garf, in line with the policies of the Muslim Brotherhood, has asserted the need for restoring the framework of ethics and values that the corrupt former regime endeavored to destroy for 30 years.

Being socially conservative is one thing, but to permit the practice of FGM as part of a “cultural revivalism” in celebration of political freedom would be misguided and diminish the equality of Egyptian women at the start of a new political era.


Source: http://www.womensviewsonnews.org/2012/0 ... -in-egypt/


Image

User avatar
Kevininabydos
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:13 pm
Location: Kernow near England.
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 126 times
Gender:
Palestine

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Kevininabydos » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:09 am

How can you "revive" something that never went out of general practice! A well educated and enlighten friend of mine was pressured into allowing his daughter to be done, by his wife and his Mother-in-law no less. No doubt if his own Mother had been alive she would have added her weight to the social pressure too! :xx
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”

Marcus Aurelius

User avatar
Who2
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6655
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: Snitzel
Has thanked: 1467 times
Been thanked: 5285 times
Gender:
Vietnam

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Who2 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:28 am

Azza El Garf, a prominent member of the Freedom and Justice Party,
So that's the level of intelligence in the Freedom & Justice Party then.........:cool:
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

User avatar
Bullet Magnet
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2530
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:38 am
Location: Le Manège Enchanté
Has thanked: 9029 times
Been thanked: 2303 times

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Bullet Magnet » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:23 am

WHEN WILL THEY EVER LEARN... ???
( They already know ) :cry:
There's a time for everyone, if they only learn
That the twisting kaleidoscope moves us all in turn.

TonyC
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: Luxor
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by TonyC » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:47 am

It would be interesting to hear the MP's views in relation to children. All the bloggers are copying a piece about her giving an interview in Arabic through an interpreter in which she is clearly talking about a "women's choice".

"Each woman can decide based on her needs. If she needs it, she can go to a doctor," El Garf said, adding that the Muslim Brotherhood refers to the practice as beautification plastic surgery. She was adamant that it was a woman's choice, and hers alone, to have the outlawed procedure and should be done in consultation with a trained medical professional.

Nobody seems to have questioned her on the forced mutilation of children, so I'd like to know her stand, and that of the Brotherhood, on the law in Egypt.

User avatar
Winged Isis
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3840
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 1566 times
Been thanked: 1012 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Winged Isis » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:14 pm

"The principal justification lies in the belief that the procedure reduces the uncontrollable sexual desire of a female"

Translation: They mean women have to suffer because of the uncontrollable sexual desire of the men. :xx And then they have the hide to complain their wives don't enjoy sex, so it makes it less enjoyable for the men! :xx :xx :xx
Carpe diem! :le:

Subversion
Member
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Subversion » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:52 pm

Again a global problem - for anyone interested the UK organisation is http://www.forwarduk.org.uk/key-issues/fgm - common practice in the UK is now the sending of young muslim girls to pakistan etc over the school summer holidays and I believe Guys hospital now run a specialist clinic to deal with the after effects.

In my conversations with male friends in Luxor - it did seem that this practice was more driven and supported by women - it was "women's business" and the men did not see the need to be involved.

If anything - if there was a silver lining to the issue of sexual relationships between egyptian men and western women it was the realisation of how much more scope for enjoyment there was with an unmultilated woman. I also sensed there was a will amongst Egyptian men not to hurt their daughters. But they were in turn reassured by their wives who had withstood the practice that it was survivable and children could still be borne.

As a western woman - everything about this practice screams at me that it is wrong!

But this issue takes us deep into the territory of taking a colonialist perspective.

Do we have a right to tell others what practices should and shouldn't be culturally acceptable?

Do we have a responsibility to use evidence based findings to inform of the dangers of a practice?

The only real defence to this must come from Egyptians themselves - the glimmer of hope is that Egyptian men don't appear to broadly support the practice - rather they turn a blind eye.

Personally - I would see it as my responsibility to use evidence based findings to inform every single Egyptian man I came into contact with on the dangers of this practice 8)

Sx

User avatar
Teddyboy
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:50 pm
Location: Luxor or Windy Nook UK
Has thanked: 1655 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Teddyboy » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:33 pm

I knew that I'd read something about this sort of practice becoming popular in the West. After only a few minutes searching, I found this:

http://www.biomedsearch.com/article/Per ... 47701.html

It's about a TV programme in the UK, fascinating!

Subversion
Member
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Subversion » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:52 pm

Teddyboy wrote:I knew that I'd read something about this sort of practice becoming popular in the West. After only a few minutes searching, I found this:

http://www.biomedsearch.com/article/Per ... 47701.html

It's about a TV programme in the UK, fascinating!
Thanks for that TB - a practice I had heard of the trend for!

Its one of those same outcome (alteration of the genitals) with the same goal (increased desirability/self esteem ) yet we come at it with entirely different thought processes situations!

The thing is that Western women make a conscious individual choice as adults - FGM is a practice enforced on children.

I really hope that the Egyptian legislature stick their ground on this one and continue to outlaw the practice

S x

User avatar
Scottishtourist
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2165
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 901 times
Been thanked: 1322 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Scottishtourist » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:42 pm

Does waxing and labia trimming really make us look "childlike?"I have never had latter,but what is wrong with "Brazilian"for sunbathing and comfort in warm country?Women do not depilate to satisfy men and gain self esteem.They do it to suit themselves.FGM is mutilation.My (Scottish)son was circumcised at 11 years old for medical reasons,not cultural or religious.My daughters?Never!I have Egyptian female friends who hate what has been done to them.They want to look like "women!"and have gone against their culture and refused to have their daughters circumcised."One small slice"for Allah?It ain't small slice!It's horrific,unnecessary and a lifetime sentence to painful menstruation and a totally unsatisfactory sex life.Kind Regards.

User avatar
Teddyboy
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:50 pm
Location: Luxor or Windy Nook UK
Has thanked: 1655 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Teddyboy » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:46 pm

What's "Brazilian"? (Apart from coffee.)

Subversion
Member
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Subversion » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:48 pm

Teddyboy wrote:What's "Brazilian"? (Apart from coffee.)
Awww Bless!

think of it like a reverse wicket

Sx

User avatar
Scottishtourist
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2165
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 901 times
Been thanked: 1322 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Scottishtourist » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:06 am

Have you ever seen "Last of the Mohicans"TB?Well,think of the hairstyle,but on female nether regions!Whilst we are all drooling over Daniel Day Lewis!!!Seriously though,have you ever read "Desert Flower"by Waris Darie,Somalian woman?It's truly horrific account of her own circumcision and lifelong effects.Kind Regards.

User avatar
Teddyboy
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:50 pm
Location: Luxor or Windy Nook UK
Has thanked: 1655 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Teddyboy » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:42 am

Doesn't sound like my cup of tea, thank you very much. I'd rather enjoy my reading than subject myself to nightmare scenarios!
I can now vaguely imagine the hairstyle, but I'm still in the dark about where the coffee traders fit in? Or was it to do with the "Politicians daughter" who was "accused of drinking water"?

User avatar
Isis*dancer
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:41 pm
Location: Australia/Luxor
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Isis*dancer » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:15 am

How on earth can women have FGM as a personal choice when they are circumsised as baby girls only a few weeks old? They have absolutely NO choice and once again it is male dominance over women in Egypt. Makes me sick to the stomach when Egypt post revolution says "Moving Forward" yet views mutilation of a woman's body as an accepted practice. As for revival of FGM - it has never stopped especially in Luxor. I personally know a baby girls that have had the procedure performed in unsanitary conditions in the villages and in my Egyptian partner's family also. My protests fall on deaf ears because the practice is considered normal and expected of a virgin wife. :xx
When one door closes another opens!

User avatar
Kevininabydos
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:13 pm
Location: Kernow near England.
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 126 times
Gender:
Palestine

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Kevininabydos » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm

Isis*dancer wrote:How on earth can women have FGM as a personal choice when they are circumsised as baby girls only a few weeks old?
In larger cities this may be the case but in smaller towns and villages it is normally done at the start of puberty, the same as the boys! :x
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”

Marcus Aurelius

User avatar
Isis*dancer
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:41 pm
Location: Australia/Luxor
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Isis*dancer » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:54 am

Kevininabydos wrote:
Isis*dancer wrote:How on earth can women have FGM as a personal choice when they are circumsised as baby girls only a few weeks old?
In larger cities this may be the case but in smaller towns and villages it is normally done at the start of puberty, the same as the boys! :x
I beg to differ as I personally know of cases when FGM has taken place in the villages around Luxor when the female babies have only been a few months old.
When one door closes another opens!

User avatar
Isis*dancer
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:41 pm
Location: Australia/Luxor
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by Isis*dancer » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:55 am

Kevininabydos wrote:
Isis*dancer wrote:How on earth can women have FGM as a personal choice when they are circumsised as baby girls only a few weeks old?
In larger cities this may be the case but in smaller towns and villages it is normally done at the start of puberty, the same as the boys! :x
I beg to differ as I personally know of cases when FGM has taken place in the villages around Luxor when the female babies have only been a few months old.
When one door closes another opens!

User avatar
dsaxelby
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:31 pm
Has thanked: 1353 times
Been thanked: 491 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Fears of female genital mutilation revival in Egypt

Post by dsaxelby » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:26 am

Yes I believed it was done as babies :(
It is what it is.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • Egypt struggles to end female genital mutilation
    by DJKeefy » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:39 pm » in Know Egypt
    9 Replies
    305 Views
    Last post by Dusak
    Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:35 am
  • Egypt doctor faces trial over fatal female genital mutilatio
    by DJKeefy » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:54 pm » in Know Egypt
    3 Replies
    396 Views
    Last post by Chocolate Eclair
    Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:58 am
  • Egypt regime fears 'another Arab Spring'
    by DJKeefy » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:42 pm » in Know Egypt
    7 Replies
    411 Views
    Last post by Major Thom
    Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:32 am
  • Tourism sector fears Egypt custom tariffs on imports
    by DJKeefy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:44 pm » in Know Egypt
    0 Replies
    165 Views
    Last post by DJKeefy
    Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:44 pm
  • Egypt to see first female, Coptic vice-presidents
    by DJKeefy » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:29 am » in Politics and Religion
    0 Replies
    178 Views
    Last post by DJKeefy
    Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:29 am