Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

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Bombay
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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Bombay » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:01 pm

"mocking comments and patronising comments"

You got the monopoly there and you not knowing is the only thing you got right.



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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Scottishtourist » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:02 pm

I sincerely hope you are not counting me among the numbers of "quasi-colonialists"Tal777.
I abhor violence,I abhor death in these circumstances.
My job dictates that I assist in sustaining life..no matter anyone's religion or political affiliation.
As I said in another post...a bloodied corpse is not a pretty or victorious sight for anyone to see.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by TAL777 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:10 pm

Bombay wrote:"mocking comments and patronising comments"

You got the monopoly there and you not knowing is the only thing you got right.
'Mocking and patronising comments'

I got that right as well..

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Bombay » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:50 pm

There are very few ex-pats commenting on here and from what I know those that are have no intention of leaving.
As for mixing with Egyptians we do it everyday of the week, every week not just on the odd holiday which is why we may just have a better understanding of what's going on here and their views.
People here are not happy with the loss of life as you think but they know whose behaviour is responsibility for it.
Based on the media coverage coming out of Egypt I can understand your view, but I notice today that the BBC seems to be changing the way its reporting at least on its website.
The whole situation is awful, the loss of life, the destruction and the terror that is being perpetuated needs to stop and only one side can stop it.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Scottishtourist » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:12 pm

TAL777 wrote:what is going on in such a wonderful and magical country, but are just concerned with your own safety with the exception of Who2, who seems about the only one of you loyal to their adopted home. That shows that how little allegiance you have towards Egypt, and that you are willing to flee back to Blighty when things get rough..
Tal777. Never,ever,ever overestimate Who2's loyalty.
Do you not know that he's member of MMB?The Margate/Morecambe Bruvvers?
He's sponsored by the British Tourist Association and in effect,is a Government agent.
It's a little known splinter group.It's aim is to rid Luxor and Egypt of the abhorration that is known as "package tourists."
The ones who visit two and three times a year.
All his little projects?
At the moment he's working on a "biggie."
He wants to part the Red Sea and is secretly digging a channel underneath it to lead "the chosen"back to Margate/Morecambe.
He'll earn a great deal of commission for it...and will thus be able to fund his lifestyle in Luxor for another few years!

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by carrie » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:01 pm

You have obviously not read my posts Tal, or Dusaks or Stans, all of us have stated quite often that we will NOT be returning to the UK.
I live here, I care about Egypt and the Egyptian people, I deplore the loss of life regardless of which side of the divide they are on. What ever the right or wrongs they are some ones child.
In future I wish you would be more specific in your allegations or better still don't make them.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Dusak » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:36 am

Oh deary me TAL777 you are suffering from the cross eyed syndrome by the sounds of it. Why did I choose to come and live in an Islamic country when my finances at the time would of allowed my then wife and I to live virtually anywhere in the world? Well, pure and simple. After a few holidays we fell in love with the country, its history and its PEOPLE. I couldn't even begin to count how many Muslim friends that I have here. Sometimes I get earache going down the streets of karnak listening to all the hello's and greetings, even from passing buses and taxi's. Why? Because I show respect to them and they reciprocate. My Christian friends are but a few. I do not, as any would, condone the loss of life, anywhere at any time, BUT, when such people deliberately put themselves on the front line carrying clubs, machetes and guns under the pretense of engaging in a peaceful protest, then then get killed I view it as another chance of a truly innocent and law abiding member of the public being saved in the future. Do you really think that ANY expat here is here because they hate Muslims or Egyptian? They are here because they came for a better life, to enjoy life and to live life. So we have a few problems in Luxor. We have our opinions and voice them, but unlike you we do not go all out and denounce people that in your opinion hate the place, hate the people living here, love the casualty figures and just pray for them to keep escalating. Wanting to see Mosques burnt to the ground to even things up. Some one posted a few days ago that we, the expats, should get more active and attempt to contact those in power to offer help, to become pro active??? Err, its not our country, not our politics and not our place to interfere. As stated before, its not the amount of Christian holdings that are being destroyed, its the reasons behind it. There were more yesterday including a Christian girls school. Who does that sound like then?
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Brian Yare » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:23 am

Bombay wrote:The whole situation is awful, the loss of life, the destruction and the terror that is being perpetuated needs to stop and only one side can stop it.
Yes, but there seems to be some disagreement about which side that is, or indeed how many sides there are. :(

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Bombay » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:12 am

Brian Yare wrote:
Bombay wrote:The whole situation is awful, the loss of life, the destruction and the terror that is being perpetuated needs to stop and only one side can stop it.
Yes, but there seems to be some disagreement about which side that is, or indeed how many sides there are. :(
Where the western media, there certainly seems no doubt in Egypt.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Brian Yare » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:33 am

Bombay wrote:
Brian Yare wrote:
Bombay wrote:The whole situation is awful, the loss of life, the destruction and the terror that is being perpetuated needs to stop and only one side can stop it.
Yes, but there seems to be some disagreement about which side that is, or indeed how many sides there are. :(
Where the western media, there certainly seems no doubt in Egypt.
o.k., I'll bite. Which 'side' is that in Egypt. And why do you think that you can speak on behalf of the entire country? :?:

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Bombay » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:45 am

I am not speaking for the country same as you are not speaking for any country.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by A-Four » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:01 pm

As I have already submitted to this organ, the fact that we have now entered a period of 'reign of terror' in Egypt, various governments throughout the world are standing back from the situation, this is the same with the various media networks, this is for one reason, and one only.

If a 'reign of terror' can not be brought under control with in a limited period, then one of two things happen, 1) civil war. Which certainly will not happen in Egypt, the military is too strong, plus it has a 'super-highway' free from most sabotage, away in the desert, that can deploy troops at short notice. Though I should point out that Egypt's military are at full stretch at this very moment. 2) Iron-Fist, and as I am sure you are all aware there is little, or should I say, no time for democracy.

Perhaps the Iron-Fist people will have time for democracy, like it will for media, in the future. :urm: .

Until then,........ :wi .

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Brian Yare » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:37 pm

Bombay wrote:I am not speaking for the country same as you are not speaking for any country.
But you wrote "there certainly seems no doubt in Egypt".

So which side is the only side that can stop "the destruction and the terror that is being perpetuated"?

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by timetraveller » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:55 pm

Brian Yare wrote:
Bombay wrote:I am not speaking for the country same as you are not speaking for any country.
But you wrote "there certainly seems no doubt in Egypt".

So which side is the only side that can stop "the destruction and the terror that is being perpetuated"?

What are the Army destroying Brian? What terror campaign are they waging? It seems very clear to me which side is being referred to. The Army didn't want to shoot protesters but were faced with a level of armed attack and resistance that necessitated this. It's obvious to me, and to the majority of Egyptians, I think, that if the Brotherhood and Salafists were were removed from the equation the Army would be able to step back, allow the roadmap to be implemented and give Egypt another chance at founding a fledgling democracy.

Because it would be a mistake to think that the Egypt is a democracy now. They've had one shot at it so far but got it totally wrong. Instead of electing a democrat they elected another dictator, but this time with the added problem of radical Islamist ideals and connections. 'Out of the frying pan, into the fire one might say'. But it as hardly the fault of the electorate. In the final analysis they had two less than popular alternatives before them. For there is no stock of seasoned politicians to call on in Egypt. And many of those there are obviously have connections to the old regime, because the old regime spanned over thirty years. In that sense, a 'technocratic' government is the best option surely?

Understandably there are fears that Egypt is returning to a military dictatorship. But is it? Sisi still continues to provide assurances that the plan as it stands will be implemented and elections will take place as planned in about six months time. And to be fair, they've been true to their word so far, have they not? They've devised the 'roadmap', and appointed an interim civilian government to oversee the transition to a permanent government. And they've made plans for drafting a new constitution. They've tried repeatedly to involve the MB and Al Nour parties in this process and offered them cabinet posts. All of which have been flatly refused.

At the moment the Army are obviously at the fore because of the widespread security issues. But the decision to disperse the protests was not made by the Army alone was it? Sisi asked people to to take to the streets one more time to demonstrate their agreement with this. And they did. They gave him his 'mandate'.

But all the time the Islamists continue to wage a war of violence and destruction throughout Egypt, the Army will not be in a position to withdraw and take a back seat. They cannot stand by and let terrorism run rife in the country-there is a population to protect. And the majority of the population are not the protesters or radical Islamists. And Egypt is already in dire straits economically- they cannot afford to allow the infrastructure of the country to be destroyed either.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by A-Four » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:56 pm

It is also the case that true democracy, what ever that is, could not exist with all the problems that are present there today. It would be a great success for world terrorism to get its hands on the most important country in the Middle East,.......don't worry the West will not allow this.

I expect everything to be done and dusted by the start of season, when I arrive in the Land of the Golden Pharaoh SiSi 1. Is it not wonderful when dictators first take over, loads of jelly, cream cakes, trifle, balloons, tinsel and all other things nice,........its like an American Pesidential election, all over again,....... :py :py :py ,.............................. :wi .

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by timetraveller » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:04 pm

Well, it remains to be seen what happens A-four. Will Sisi stand? Some speculate he will but he denies having any aspirations in that direction. If I were him I certainly wouldn't have. The presidency would surely be a poison chalice for him, particularly as he is already the subject of an Islamist 'fatwa'.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Brian Yare » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:31 pm

timetraveller wrote:
Brian Yare wrote:
Bombay wrote:I am not speaking for the country same as you are not speaking for any country.
But you wrote "there certainly seems no doubt in Egypt".

So which side is the only side that can stop "the destruction and the terror that is being perpetuated"?

What are the Army destroying Brian? What terror campaign are they waging? It seems very clear to me which side is being referred to. The Army didn't want to shoot protesters but were faced with a level of armed attack and resistance that necessitated this. It's obvious to me, and to the majority of Egyptians, I think, that if the Brotherhood and Salafists were were removed from the equation the Army would be able to step back, allow the roadmap to be implemented and give Egypt another chance at founding a fledgling democracy.
TT,

My question was to Bombay. But I note your opinion.

Brian

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by timetraveller » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:57 pm

Sorry Brian, but it is a public forum. If you want to ask a question specifically to one person and have only them respond you can always use a PM.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by Brian Yare » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:03 pm

timetraveller wrote:Sorry Brian, but it is a public forum. If you want to ask a question specifically to one person and have only them respond you can always use a PM.
TT,

I am aware of that. I welcome the opinion of everyone, but was hoping that Bombay would be one to reply since he raised the subject.

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Re: Churches torched across Egypt in anti-Coptic violence

Post by timetraveller » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:13 pm

And I am sure he will in due time Brian. My expressing my opinion need not prevent him from responding to you.

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