Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Advice, information and discussion about Egypt in general.

Moderators: DJKeefy, 4u Network

User avatar
DJKeefy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10874
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 889 times
Been thanked: 1840 times
Gender:
Egypt

Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by DJKeefy »

Egypt’s cabinet publishes historical docs backing Saudi Red Sea islands claim.

An Egyptian governmental body released a statement on Monday detailing the evidence supporting the state's recognition of Saudi sovereignty over the Red Sea islands of Tiran and Sanafir.

The decision last week to recognise Saudi sovereignty over the islands, which came during a historic five-day visit to Cairo by Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz, has caused controversy in Egypt, with some public figures arguing the islands are Egyptian.

On Monday the cabinet's Information and Decision Support Centre documented the chronology behind the Saudi claim to the islands, which are located in the Gulf of Aqaba.

“The current agreement of maritime border demarcation between Egypt and Saudi Arabia was not a quick decision taken during King Salman’s visit to Egypt,” read the statement.

“It came based on studies and opinions of the National Committee for Egyptian Maritime Border Demarcation, which work lasted for six years, and also based on a number of meetings between both sides for months," the statement read.

The statement said that in 1950, Egypt and Saudi Arabia agreed to put both islands under Egyptian management “as both countries wanted to consolidate the Arab military position to face Israel given the islands’ strategic position, and also to strengthen the Egyptian military defence in Sinai as well as the entrance to the Gulf of Aqaba, especially as Zionist gangs occupied Om El-Rashash port on 9 March 1949, and given the presence of Israel in Aqaba Gulf which came after that.”


*** Letters, articles, maps ***

The statement cited a number of sources in support of its argument, including a number of screenshots.

The statement referred to a letter sent by Saudi King Abdulaziz in February 1950 to a Saudi minister in Cairo, as well as letters between the Egyptian and Saudi foreign ministers in 1988 and 1989, which ask that the two islands are returned to Saudi sovereignty as the reasons for them being lent to Egypt are over.

The cabinet also referred to a letter sent by the American ambassador to Egypt to the American secretary of state in 1950 that prove that Tiran and Sanafir are Saudi.

“Foreign Office informed Embassy by aide-mémoire that because of certain pretensions (Velléités) manifested by Israel authroties recently toward Tiran and Sanafir Islands in Red Sea at the entrance of Gulf of Akaba, the Egyptian Government, in perfect accord with SAG [Saudi Arabia Government], had occupied the islands,” the American ambassador's letter reads.

The statement also refers to a 1973 map which shows the islands are Saudi according to international law and UN maritime law.

The statement also links to a New York Times article from 19 January 1982, which it describes as “confirming that Israel's fears that the Egyptians would give the islands back to their Saudi owners after Egyptian-Saudi relations return to normal.”


*** According to the article: ***

"The two islands were transferred by Saudi Arabia to Egyptian control in 1950 because the Saudis feared an Israeli attempt to seize them. Along with the rest of Sinai, they fell under Israeli control in the 1967 war, but Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Fahd said recently that he would ask Egypt, after regaining them in April, to return them to Saudi sovereignty."

Mohamed ElBaradei, an international lawyer and former Egyptian vice president, also makes an appearance in the statement. A screenshot of an article by ElBaradei, taken from an unspecified international legal journal, is also included.

The article, “The Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty and Access to the Gulf of Aqaba: A New Legal Regime,” states: “The islands of Tiran and Sanafir...have been under Egyptian occupation since 1950.” The article also says that the Strait of Tiran is “within the territorial sea of Egypt.”

The cabinet’s statement also refers to a presidential decree in 1990 that mentions the maritime borders of the country, which cites the two islands as being outside Egypt's borders.

According to the statement, the maritime border demarcation announcement came last week because of an agreement to build a bridge betweenEgypt and Saudi Arabia, a decision also announced last week.

Such a project requires determining borders precisely, according to the statement, which adds that there are many precedents of countries that sealed border agreements to establish bridges.

Many Egyptians, including public figures, renowned politicians and experts, have expressed disapproval and anger over the decision, with criticism continuing to grow on social media.

Egypt's parliament, the House of Representatives, is expected to review the new technical deal aimed at drawing the maritime borders. soon. According to the Egyptian constitution, the agreement should be approved by the parliament in order to be finalised.

The deal, which leaves the two Red Sea islands of Tiran and Sanafir within the regional waters of Saudi Arabia, has left MPs divided.

Source: http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/199354.aspx


Image

User avatar
Jayway
Member
Member
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: Portugal
Has thanked: 1327 times
Been thanked: 211 times
Portugal

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by Jayway »

The start of a take-over - - watch this space !

User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4604
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 2971 times
Been thanked: 5600 times
United Kingdom

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by carrie »

Not always the land mass but the sea area surrounding that land that is important. Maybe the Saudi's have found off shore oil and it would belong to them if within their territorial waters.

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7576
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2120 times
Been thanked: 6342 times
Egypt

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by newcastle »

i can't recall the exact wording of one report I saw but the agreement is supposed to allow the two countries to benefit 'from what each island provides in "wealth and resources" that will be economically beneficial' ( per Egyptian Streets).

Whatever that means.

A-Four
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3883
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:04 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 1626 times
Been thanked: 1732 times
Gender:
China

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by A-Four »

I do not know what all this none sense about these two islands is all about.

Up until about 1930 there was no such thing as a nation of Saudi Arabia, but when it was formed these two islands became part of it. The complications came during the Israeli war, when Saudi Arabia asked Egypt to 'look after' them being they at that time had no navy,........that is it.

Mi thinks certain Egyptian opposition to President Sisi is trying to make political capital, however there is more to this story than we see first hand,.............I see there is to be a huge 'Free Port' built along the Suez, guess who is paying for that?

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7576
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2120 times
Been thanked: 6342 times
Egypt

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by newcastle »

All anyone can say with any certainty regarding the islands is that, prior to WWI, they formed part of the Ottoman Empire. Currently, both Egypt and KSA have claims based on what has happened subsequently.

It's one of those situations (there are others dotted around the world ) which can only ultimately be resolved by the UN or by agreement between the parties. The Egyptian government , subject to ratification by parliament, has chosen the latter route.

There are several reasons why it may have done so...fostering the relationship with KSA, a reward for past (and future?) Saudi support, clarification ahead of the bridge project....we will never be privy the "behind closed doors" disussions that preceded the announcement.

The perception - and it is only a perception - that the islands belong absolutely to Egypt is clearly seen in the response of the general public and, naturally, will be seized upon by any and all of the forces opposed to the current regime to foment discord.

Whether Sisi has bitten off more than he can chew with this move remains to be seen.

Anything more than the above is, at this stage, pure speculation.

A-Four
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3883
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:04 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 1626 times
Been thanked: 1732 times
Gender:
China

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by A-Four »

I state again, that both isles are part of Saudi Arabia full stop, and the ruling party in Egypt are not going to argue that point to the idea that they ever belonged to Egypt.

Police Station or no police station on one of the Isles makes no difference,.........now that info from the past says a lot. what do you say Hafiz ? :wi .

User avatar
Hafiz
V.I.P
V.I.P
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 814 times
Been thanked: 747 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by Hafiz »

I agree with Afour and Newcastle but surely the point of the protests is not about logic or law but nationalism which seems strong in Egypt. Nationalism is never logical and always emotional.

As an aside Israeli newspapers (too lazy to find them for a second time) report that Israel was advised of this proposal 2 to 4 weeks before announcement in Egypt so as to reassure Israel that their navigation rights were preserved by Egypt under the 1979 treaty. The new arrangements mean that Egypt acts as guarantor (on behalf of Saudi) for Israeli navigation in the gulf. If there were a free press in Egypt reports of Israeli navigation rights protected by Egypt on behalf of Saudi would produce riots.

User avatar
Who2
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7074
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: Lanikai Beach
Has thanked: 1630 times
Been thanked: 5455 times
Gender:
Hawaii

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by Who2 »

Are not these Islands not connected to this so-called bridge that they talk about constructing ?....8)
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7576
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2120 times
Been thanked: 6342 times
Egypt

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by newcastle »

One proposed route is from just north of S harm, across Tiran and on to Saudi Arabia.....the shortest crossing.

User avatar
Major Thom
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2729
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:45 am
Has thanked: 280 times
Been thanked: 552 times
Gender:
Cyprus

Re: Egypt publishes docs backing Saudi Red Sea island claim

Post by Major Thom »

These Islands were under discussion some time ago, and talks have been taking part for some time, if bayou saw Nilesat TV International last night it was fully explained.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • Saudi Dominancce - Egypt Servility.
    by Hafiz » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:30 pm » in General Discussions and Rants
    3 Replies
    251 Views
    Last post by newcastle
    Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:11 pm
  • Saudi Arabia to give Egypt $5 billion in aid
    by DJKeefy » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:09 pm » in Know Egypt
    4 Replies
    405 Views
    Last post by Hafiz
    Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:21 pm
  • Saudi-Egypt bridge looks likely to get the green light
    by DJKeefy » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:05 pm » in Know Egypt
    1 Replies
    367 Views
    Last post by Who2
    Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:09 pm
  • Saudi Arabia supports Egypt Military
    by TAL777 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:01 am » in Politics and Religion
    8 Replies
    513 Views
    Last post by Brian Yare
    Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:56 pm
  • Egypt, Saudi Arabia to construct Red Sea bridge
    by DJKeefy » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:05 pm » in Know Egypt
    7 Replies
    712 Views
    Last post by newcastle
    Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:08 pm