Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Advice, information and discussion about Egypt in general.

Moderators: Horus, DJKeefy, 4u Network

User avatar
Hafiz
V.I.P
V.I.P
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 793 times
Been thanked: 725 times
Gender:
Australia

Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by Hafiz » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:17 pm

A recent Egyptian article which gives a detailed picture of the tourist situation in Luxor.
https://dailynewsegypt.com/2017/05/10/l ... officials/

Significantly the sources for the story are local – the government is always reluctant to give regional breakdowns of stats – particularly for Upper Egypt which hasn’t been one of their priority tourist spots for a very long time.

Significant points:
The Chinese are the biggest current visitors by volume – and almost certainly by spend – if they could find something to spend their money on.
Hotel occupancy is about 25% for the first third of this year.
Prior to 2011 there were 50 direct overseas flights a week – now 4 (is this true?).
There are about 4,000 hotel beds (depends how you define hotels).
A broader definition puts it at about 14,000 beds – including boats.
Very few floating hotels/cruise boats are currently operating and when operating do so for only a small part of the year.
Huge government ‘loans’ to renovate and replace hotels have been issued – wonder who got them.
Tourism peaked in Luxor at 3.5 million in 2010 – its now north of 250,000.
The average hotel price per night in Luxor is $US20.
The peak season is about 4 months – none of which is during the period of the year when most Europeans go on holidays.
There has been a decline in the average spend of the average tourist.
There are 1,800 bazaars in Luxor (this figure seems very high) with 50% of bazaar products imported from China.
Quite a high percentage of everyday consumer products are imported.
Income for general retailers may have decreased by 90-90%.

Clearly these are depressing figures. However I see a positive note in this story. What I see are a few local leaders standing up for themselves and getting organized and producing the first data on local conditions to provide a case for a fairer deal from government. Typically government 'initiatives' have gone elsewhere, and to the usual suspects, and broad brush government approaches probably don't meet specific local needs. Good luck to them for showing initiative in a country which generally just relies on the government. In any case the best antiseptic is sunlight and putting sunlight on the Luxor figures can’t be a bad thing.

Maybe they could ask for a fair share of the tourist promotion budget to feature Luxor and for an account of what the 500 overseas workers for Egyptian government tourism do during the day. Setting up a local lobby group, if that was legal, might not be a bad idea but of course all local organizations, even film clubs, have to be approved and registered. Maybe they could ask the state approved Tourism Syndicate what they are doing for Luxor and coordinating with their Aswan mates might be a good idea as well as trying to get the international chains which have investments in the area to get active. Getting their story into regional and international media might not be a bad thing – particularly the low hotel costs. Highlighting that there have been no attacks on tourists in Luxor in 20 years - unlike the repeated killings on the coast might be going a bit far in truth telling.

An interesting question about flights would be whether government is restricting approvals on landing slots to force flights to the coast and how the airport landing charges vary between locations. I suspect these figures would be fascinating.



User avatar
Winged Isis
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3825
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 1566 times
Been thanked: 1003 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by Winged Isis » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:43 pm

"There are 1,800 bazaars in Luxor (this figure seems very high) with 50% of bazaar products imported from China."

I assume that translates as "shops", going by what I've heard when there, as against the usually accepted meaning we would expect.
Carpe diem! :le:

User avatar
Miss scarlett
Member
Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:17 pm
Location: England
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 75 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by Miss scarlett » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:59 pm

Interesting article. If only the Chinese, and the rest of us for that matter could find something to spend our money on! I am not a jewellery person, and the difference between Luxor and say Marrakech is vast. The souk there has such an array of gifts to buy. So many lanterns of varying costs, that light up the square in the evening.

It would be interesting to see the different costs of the landing fees indeed.

I wish they would finish the avenue of the Sphinx. How wonderful to walk or have a carriage ride from Luxor to Karnak. They have so much there, wish the government would realise, appreciate and fund renovations.

On a different subject remember there was a convention in Luxor a couple of years ago about solar power. Why on earth have they not progressed with this? Where I live, we have acres of land given over to these solar panels. With the cost of electricity going up and not being subsidised, solar heating would be wonderful for Egypt.

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6840
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1983 times
Been thanked: 5797 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by newcastle » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:59 am

There are currently something like 20+ direct flights a day arriving at Hurghada where tourism numbers are rapidly increasing as the perception of Egypt as "unsafe" is diminishing.

In terms of safety, facilities and attractiveness, particularly to the autumn/winter/spring holidaymaker, I wouldn't say Luxor has changed much over the last 10 years.

Cost-wise, although inflation is rampant, the current exchange rate versus GBP/$/euro must make Luxor a cheap option compared to European destinations.

So why no tourists? As Hafiz says, there have been no terrorism scares for quite a while and life has settled down post the revolutions.

Surely the problem, primarily, is ease & cost of access. People want a direct flight...and they are few and far between.

Why? Because the airlines/tour operators do not see Luxor as a profitable destination.

Why? Because holidaymakers are not expressing an interest in sufficient numbers for them to construct packages and put on flights.

Why? Because holidaymakers don't see Luxor being promoted actively as a choice with a range of options!

Classic chicken & egg situation.

There are signs that some European operators are re-starting Luxor holidays this coming winter....but it's a slow process. And Monarch/Thomson/Thomas Cook/Easyjet from UK are noticeably reticent.

Kick-starting tourism anywhere from a zero base is always a difficult exercise for airlines/tour operators and their enthusiasm for Luxor is not yet apparent......despite the marketing efforts of the Egyptian authorities.

User avatar
crewmeal
Top Member
Top Member
Posts: 565
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:54 am
Location: Birmingham UK
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 233 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by crewmeal » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:43 am

Surely the problem, primarily, is ease & cost of access. People want a direct flight...and they are few and far between.

Why? Because the airlines/tour operators do not see Luxor as a profitable destination.

Why? Because holidaymakers are not expressing an interest in sufficient numbers for them to construct packages and put on flights.

Why? Because holidaymakers don't see Luxor being promoted actively as a choice with a range of options!

Classic chicken & egg situation.
I couldn't agree more with your statement. However companies in Luxor such as Sonesta need to go out and sell themselves. I recently wrote to the group in Cairo about this as I worked in the travel industry for nearly 30 years. My experience shows that you need a good marketing team to go to different countries in Europe/US/Australia and show what a wonderful holiday destination Luxor could be is as far as cruises and temples go. We know Luxor isn't a family holiday destination because of its limitations, unlike Hurghada where you'll find the water slides, evening activities, diving, desert driving etc etc.

On the other hand until the ISIS ideology is wiped out then Egypt Tunisia and other places things will not change. Whilst there are daily stabbings in Birmingham, terror activities in London and Manchester, this does seem not detract tourism.

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6840
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1983 times
Been thanked: 5797 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by newcastle » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:11 am

I agree with Crewmeal.....more effective marketing is required.

Luxor is not, and never was, a destination for families with young kids. Nothing has changed in that respect over the last decade.

Tourism in Egypt dropped drastically post the Arab Spring and the continuous drip-drip of negative publicity for the country has slowed any recovery.

But if Hurghada is overcoming these issues, I don't see why Luxor can't - if the access issue can be solved.

I wonder if 2-centre holidays ( Red Sea + Luxor) would work? There are some along these lines....but not many. The road link between the Red Sea and Luxor is pretty good now.

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7327 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by Dusak » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:55 am

As for the grants towards the updating of the hotels, when my friends were here a couple of months back the E-tab played host to the tourism minister concerning one such loan for this hotel. A hotel that is now predominately visited by Arab nationals, not Europeans. The four of them were invited to join the ''party'' on one of the cruse boats for a slap up meal. They enjoyed themselves, but placed at the end of the table with not one syllable aimed in their direction. These four friends are seasoned travelers to Egypt, through the good times and now the bad. It would of been an ideal opportunity for this minister to hear the comments from such people, but no, they missed it, or just was not interested in their views.

As for solar power, at least they have fitted out most of the main street lights with small units, saving on some power consumption.

As said, the Bazaar number would be the amount of individual units, and yes, the most common items on display are from China. But to be realistic, what else could they sell that is guaranteed some sort of income. No tourists means no tourist tat is being sold. From what I have seen on my wanderings is that nearly all the ''tourist type'' shops attached to the big hotels, inside and out, are closed in most cases, or selling the Chinese goods in others. It gives a good indication as to how they view the importance now concerning the tourist spend, when most are stocking items that the local economy needs. The few still active tourist outlets that I know of, the old guy that sits patently outside for hours, days, weeks on end in the hope of getting a sale, is now covered with just as many cobwebs as the wares in his window.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6840
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1983 times
Been thanked: 5797 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by newcastle » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:21 am

The 'powers that be' do seem to have an ambivalent attitude to European tourists....and the visa fiasco has done nothing to encourage those who want to spend more than a month here. I can't see what it's done for "security", nor do I see it inhibiting the work-permitless foreigners ....they continue to flood into the Red Sea resorts - going by social media.

Egyptians do have a tendency to blame others for their woes. Maybe they feel it's our fault for abandoning Luxor...or that the personal Star Trek transporters we all possess are out of order :urm:

Encouraging native tourism, or tourism from China or India, may fill a few hotel beds but I don't see it boosting much the trade of bazaars, cafes & restaurants. Nor do natives contribute much to the gate receipts of the historic sites.

I though they'd banned imports of Chinese tat. Mind you....they probably have enough stock gathering dust to last a few decades.

There's no incentive for local manufacturers to produce tourist goods...until the tourists return.

Chicken & egg again.

Meanwhile, the local population continue to reproduce like rabbits, hoping against hope that tourists will return, whilst trying to survive with inflation out of control.

All very sad.

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6840
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1983 times
Been thanked: 5797 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by newcastle » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:21 am

@ Hafiz

I've been unable to access the Daily News Egypt article link you posted.

Per EGYPTIAN STREETS
MAY 28, 2017

Daily News Egypt (DNE), one of Egypt’s leading English-language daily newspapers and online websites, has been blocked in Egypt. Al Borsa News, which shares the same owner as DNE and covers business news, also appears to have been blocked.

The two websites have become inaccessible for Internet users in Egypt, but remain online for internet users in other countries.

User avatar
Major Thom
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2622
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:45 am
Has thanked: 258 times
Been thanked: 529 times
Gender:
Cyprus

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by Major Thom » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:27 am

The more they g on about ISIS and security problems in Egypt the less tourism they will get. Newc. Is correct in what he says really, people no longer see Luxor as a holiday spot, more as a one find place to see the temples etc. I think people holidaying there for he first time will be disappointed because there has been very little investment, and there will be little in the future, there is nothing to invest. As for foreign investment I think that too s a thing of the past, and until they get more world friendly it will never happen. You really have to look at reality. Also all this blocking of media and social media sites in the name of security is not really a thing that will put Egypt in good stead.

User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4269
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 2745 times
Been thanked: 5293 times
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by carrie » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:41 pm

A friend has been to stay for two weeks, he and his wife usually come 3 times a year for two weeks but this is the first time for 4 years. Why? He came alone this time because his wife couldn't face the travel between Hurghada and Luxor, the difficulty of flights seems to be the main factor in putting people off coming here. Nothing to do with Da'esh or security problems.

Bombay
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 1990
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:57 pm
Location: Luxor
Has thanked: 1794 times
Been thanked: 1696 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by Bombay » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:16 pm

is the repetitive discussion of this subject one of the reasons why the forum is becoming boring?

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6840
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1983 times
Been thanked: 5797 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by newcastle » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:38 pm

Bombay wrote:is the repetitive discussion of this subject one of the reasons why the forum is becoming boring?
Not really.

Reading someone's post, or replying to it, is not compulsory.

You're free to introduce a "less boring" topic.

Over to you........ :lol:

Bombay
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 1990
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:57 pm
Location: Luxor
Has thanked: 1794 times
Been thanked: 1696 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by Bombay » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:44 pm

What colour should I paint my flat so I can watch it dry?

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6840
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1983 times
Been thanked: 5797 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by newcastle » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:49 pm

Bombay wrote:What colour should I paint my flat so I can watch it dry?
Outside has to be white I suppose.

Inside....I would suggest each room a different colour to match different moods.

Maybe you can find a non-drying paint ( the sort they use to deter burglars, pigeons, cats etc.).

Dusak will know.

That way, you need never leave. Endless hours of enjoyment! :P

User avatar
Hafiz
V.I.P
V.I.P
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 793 times
Been thanked: 725 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by Hafiz » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:08 pm

Bombay. I agree the subject has been discussed a lot.

However this story contains more and fresh facts specific to Luxor than any I have read before and, in any case, my main point is that the three locals mentioned in the story seem to be getting themselves organized for a local initiative – which seems both a good and a new thing.

The facts they quote, if indeed they are facts, also provide a more solid basis for discussion here and elsewhere than the anecdotes, impressions and national figures which are the usual kicking off point for most of the previous discussions. Not that impression etc are irrelevant.

Newcastle I don’t have your confidence that flight destinations/frequency/landing rights in Egypt are solely the hand work of the free market. In addition, most business decisions involve a chicken and egg problem but in this case who has most to win from a first move - and what is the alternative, passively wait for further demoralization and social discord?

I disagree with others on infrastructure – I think Luxor would be better focusing on cheap options in the early stages like a big clean up, a lick of whitewash, a few trees (actually a lot) and a strong focus on service and friendliness training and public education. A local official web-site giving practical and reliable information rather than the chaos of the government web-site wouldn’t go astray and could be done cheaply. Direct approaches to select international media, rather than relying on Cairo to do this, might bear fruit and using contacts within the world archaeology community (where there would be much good will) to get attention would cost nothing. The alternative of building more hotels and hoping tourists will come seems illogical – particularly at this stage.

The focus in most posts on this subject on packages ignores the possibilities, and higher dollars, from independent travellers/cultural tourism/small scale specialist tour groups and how these people are influenced by specialist media and ‘expert opinion’ rather than glossy brochures and broad brush government campaigns.

BTW. Does anyone have a view on what has happened to backpacker tourism to Luxor in the past 7 years – and I don’t mean the larger lout end of the market. I mention this because their tolerance for terrorism/dirt/bad service is high – but their taste for the cheap insatiable. If they can be attracted then options for keeping them occupied for three days in Luxor might be worth thinking about whilst Luxor awaits the 'return' of richer and more risk averse/comfort loving tourists.

Just lying back and waiting for providential action from Cairo or for the market to turn may not do the job and you can bet that the usual suspects are up to their old tricks to ensure they get the lions share of any government assistance. Alternately Luxor could just sell itself lock, stock and barrel to one of the Egyptian billionaires, establish it self as a gated resort and I’m sure the flights and advertising would appear.
Last edited by Hafiz on Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4269
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 2745 times
Been thanked: 5293 times
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by carrie » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:26 pm

There is a group in Luxor called Luxor el baladi, it has been going for some time. Consists of tour guides, shop keepers, people from the souk, different sections of the community. They have regular meetings but as yet have achieved nothing despite strenuous efforts. Lack of support from the powers that be, they have some really good ideas but haven't the power or the means to implement them.

Bombay
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 1990
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:57 pm
Location: Luxor
Has thanked: 1794 times
Been thanked: 1696 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by Bombay » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:35 pm

I went to one of the {in}famous committee meetings where I was treated to a lot of "why that cannot be done" gave up half way down my list and they knew it because I had brought and distributed copies.
Someone told me when they met the minister for tourism he didn't appear to think there was a problem.

Business had been steady but with both the Egyptair and Qatar direct flights stopping there is just about no one around.

User avatar
DJKeefy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10744
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 776 times
Been thanked: 1794 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by DJKeefy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:47 pm

carrie wrote:Nothing to do with Da'esh or security problems.
You are probably right when it comes to people who have visited several times, but on people who have not been to Egypt before the feedback I get is Muslin Countries are out of the question mainly because of security and isis fears.
Image

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6840
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1983 times
Been thanked: 5797 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor Tourism – Specific Details.

Post by newcastle » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:03 pm

However this story contains more and fresh facts specific to Luxor than any I have read before and, in any case, my main point is that the three locals mentioned in the story seem to be getting themselves organized for a local initiative – which seems both a good and a new thing.
As the Daily News Egypt site is blocked in Egypt, can I trouble you, Hafiz, to copy & paste the relevant parts of this article.
Newcastle I don’t have your confidence that flight destinations/frequency/landing rights in Egypt are solely the hand work of the free market. In addition, most business decisions involve a chicken and egg problem but in this case who has most to win from a first move - and what is the alternative, passively wait for further demoralization and social discord?
I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. I doubt the government has any objection to tourist flights arriving to Luxor! Nor have I seen any indication that they've made life for them more expensive or difficult. The operators have determined, rightly or wrongly, that it's not commercially viable......presumably because potential customers are dissuaded by the cost or security situation - or that it's not being adequately marketed as an attractive destination.

There is a lot which could be improved in terms of the service etc given to tourists.....but I don't think this is what's putting people off, because , in essence, it's no worse than it was 10 years ago.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • Tourist Police contact details
    by Annie » Mon May 13, 2019 1:41 pm » in Living in Luxor
    17 Replies
    169 Views
    Last post by Who2
    Wed May 15, 2019 9:59 am
  • Will this help Luxor tourism?
    by crewmeal » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:42 am » in News and Sport
    4 Replies
    257 Views
    Last post by Major Thom
    Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:04 am
  • Tourism In Luxor
    by Zooropa » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:20 pm » in Visiting Luxor
    2 Replies
    172 Views
    Last post by Who2
    Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:00 am
  • Details emerge about Italian student Murdered in Egypt
    by DJKeefy » Mon May 06, 2019 3:51 pm » in Know Egypt
    2 Replies
    153 Views
    Last post by newcastle
    Mon May 06, 2019 5:15 pm
  • Luxor still waiting for tourism aid
    by DJKeefy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:24 am » in Know Egypt
    3 Replies
    256 Views
    Last post by Bombay
    Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:53 pm