Eat Yourself to Death.

Advice, information and discussion about Egypt in general.

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Eat Yourself to Death.

Post by Hafiz »

Eat Yourself To Death.

Its not what you think – eg. the rich gorging themselves to death as in the anarchic La Grande Bouffe movie. (a great old movie if more than a bit anarchic). Its something quite different.

Its about people not eating enough or eating the wrong things. Its also about how poor diet affects unborn and young children – particularly in Upper Egypt. Its also about how the billions Egypt has spent on hospitals – mainly the dozens of military hospitals for the connected – and truckloads of pharmaceuticals that Egypt is addicted to whilst they ignore simple and cheap alternatives of proven scientific effect.

As is usual Egypt goes for big masculine projects that will immortalize their fragile memories. The President’s recent ‘initiative’ really just a bark without any idea of how to get there or what next – typical Egyptian politics.

Most of what follows is complex, but important for Egypt, and therefore its possible that few on this forum will be interested in the detail of the poor and ordinary Egyptians and instead prefer their rather warm or sad anecdotes. The post doesn’t deal with fast/junk foods – another time and a vital issue – but rather the science of what is wrong and the specific health problems that arise – particularly for kids from poor backgrounds, which are my interest but maybe not that of others.

Billions have been invested in this area to produce a result that is hard to measure – because its so small and pathetic.

Like a lot of general issues about Egypt people rely on stats of the average which might make more sense in the west but in Egypt the gap between poor and rich is so large that an average is meaningless – although a mean might make sense but is never used by their Supreme Beatitudes – the UN and the worst of the NGO’s

It also tries to give the picture for the poor and for Upper Egypt – something the Government tries to conceal because it's exposure would show that all the aid and development and government funding in the last 40 years failed/never got there/was mismanaged/was stolen and definitely not fairly distributed to regions. There is also some evidence that the UN food programs for Egypt and their tens of millions have failed – as if anyone would be surprised at that.

Malnutrition is also connected to birth deformities/developmental disabilities/failure to fully develop. The peak Egyptian woman’s body much liked by posters on this forum is silent on all these matters and related matters about the poor because they don’t want to criticize the government/their funder/their master and they aren’t really very interested in poor women/children – just conferences in 5 star Cairo hotels.

Malnutrition will kill you in many ways and malnutrition in children can ruin your whole life. malnutrition in an army economy like Egypt is very odd– poorly fed children grow up to be no better than the appalling British Working class in WW1 whom the Australians, NZ’s, South Africans and Canadians thought defective and deformed until they met the inherited officer class at which point they feared the war was lost.

A start.

In 2009 according to the usually ‘happy days’ World Bank 1/3rd of child deaths were due to ‘under-nutrition’ – presumably much higher amongst poor people and in Upper Egypt (double it). At the other end of the spectrum, and due to bad food, 70% of 15 year olds are overweight or obese. ... /Egypt.pdf

Everyone knows that malnutrition affects growth – both before and after birth, few know that it affects brain development, temperament and IQ – again both before and after birth. (an abstract) and maybe malnutrition promotes antisocial behavior via poor brain development ... 005027.htm, and maybe affects that crucial aspect of mental success in life – adaptability – not a dominant quality in Egypt – except in its negative aspects ... text=ymtdl The real problem is in the third world which probably include the awful/deficient/inadequate diets of Egyptians that cause expensive health problems for the country and deadly results for individuals. ... -bad-food/

Malnutrition has extreme effects in some great military ‘democracies’. For example North Korea, Egypt’s and Naguib Sawiris’s close and loving friend, starves millions to fund its middle class and its nuclear program and therefore, has a dramatically lower IQ and stunting than South Korea (at least 10 to 15 IQ points – some say higher, with 37% of kids stunted (World Food Program), down from 62% previously).

Those fine and reputable friends on Egypt built the Military Museum on the Citadel (winner of the Stalin design award), constructed a war memorial on the Canal which is a 70 foot steel musket mouth with 20 foot knife/swords and have, with the approval of Military Intelligence, one of the most successful ‘retail’ services in Egypt’s dreadful moral history. I refer to the North Korean Embassy on Zamalek that will sell you everything you need to be a monster/elected Arab President – gas, guns, chemicals and guns. Nuclear ‘assets’ subject to consideration and consultation with Pakistan so no over the counter services are possible..

There are plans for unification of Korea, which state that the North Koreans would be intellectually and physically unsuitable for modern work and living. I guess if your people are mentally defective through starvation they are easier to rule with a machine gun. That’s useful information for some.

The WHO has no data on malnutrition – it specializes in Geneva cocktail parties which do volumes for the career prospects of their staff and their dress standards.

The UNICEF data on Egypt is incoherent and detailed, but not with useful conclusions. Some of its stats are hard to believe – 68% of under 5’s are taken to a doctor with pneumonia. Like all ‘independent’ UN agencies they rely on local and dubious government Departments for factually correct data. They make an astounding statement – 22% of kids are moderately to severely stunted. In places like Upper Egypt double that amongst the lower classes. (its irrelevant to this point but 93% of children 2-14 years reported experiencing ‘violent aggression’ , presumably by a parent/relative, in the past month – this might also imply a hidden volcano of sexual crimes that no one will talk about ). and Gulping Gallup says it’s the safest place on earth – did they do their research?

An academic paper in 2010 said 27% of Egyptian kids under 5 years were malnourished but is vague about whether its marginal or serious malnourishment. If true, double that number for Upper Egypt/poor people where it says the stunting of kids was 24% (the World Bank says 40%) but I would guess higher.

Malnutrition in kids kills them and 2/3rds of local child mortality in Egypt – much higher in poorer families and quite high by world standards – is blamed by the WHO on malnutrition. Obviously 70 years of military socialism has not been a success – wonder who is responsible. Most/all of this is going to be in poor families and poorer regions. Maybe a different government is needed.

The WHO says that Egypt is still malnourished even though its income is much higher than other malnourished countries. It’s a lower middle income country (in aggregate terms) but its malnutrition is in the same level as low income countries or worse – wonder where the government budget is being spent – virility projects. Other poorer countries do much better – as is often the case. Wonder why the government hasn’t been able in 70 years to distribute the ‘new wealth’ more equitably. These figures are a few years old –so its probably worse now. Paradoxically Egyptian adults, mainly men and young people, mainly men, are overweight/obese and risk medical complications from their fat/carbo driven unhealthy diets. Often overweight is a class/income thing.

Oddly (not really) as income increased in the 2000’s so did malnutrition. Firm evidence on how Mubarak shared out the new prosperity – the bits that didn’t go to tax havens and corrupt places like Cyprus. One of his many achievements, possibly unique in the world, was to also to increase the rate of births of disabled children by 25% between the good years of 1996-2006. This was the time that Madame Mubarak was running her children’s programs and prancing the world to get acclaim for her ‘genius’. No one in government or CAPMASS seemed bothered by the increase because there is no nationwide system to collect data on birth defects. Most other countries, including poorer ones, are not so stupid, careless and negligent. ... 3011000176 another study with similar conclusions to 2008. ... Survey.pdf. Its proof positive that the Junta didn’t share the growth/prosperity. The malnutrition is clearly wealth/poverty based whilst disability may be connected to the eating of pregnant mothers and the feeding of babies but also to medical care, inter-breeding and pre and post natal nursing services (virtually non-existent in poorer areas).

In simple terms as Egypt became richer up and to 2011 the food/malnutrition/food and nutrition deficiency for the bulk of Egypt and the poor in particular got worse. Its a bit like the collapse of the school system in the same period because the new money went into only a few pockets although some on this forum think this negative/political. I'm interested why many were living in Egypt at this time and seemingly noticed nothing or if they noticed it they made no mention whilst seemingly claiming a great love of the Egyptian people.

Those who think me negative or political will, no doubt choose to ignore that the Divine Suzanne was sashaying the world saying she was a world leader in children issues. She led the world in such issues but from a negative and evil point of view not noticed at the time by the world experts/residents on this forum. Those who didn’t notice the screamingly obvious at the time will answer to some – in the graveyard.

The general food problem is a mixture of poor food, bad doctors and backward people. With stunting some and ill-educated Egyptian mothers and grandmothers think it hereditary and this shows a poor understanding by doctors of appropriate food for babies made worse by doctors who prescribe useless (I mean absolutely useless) herbal type drinks to mothers and babies. Breastfeeding, particularly early, is insufficient and this doesn’t help. In general information to mothers is poor and junk food to older babies dangerous. ... L%20V2.pdf

Half of children under the age of 18 were considered anemic. Bassiouni, M. Cherif. Chronicles of the Egyptian Revolution and its Aftermath: 2011–2016 (p. 20). Cambridge University Press. Kindle Edition. This is a huge figure, probably not noticed by Luxor residents, and with negative lifetime effects, not ever noted by resident, expert eyes that notice, in 100,000 posts on this forum, all that is most important to them/the people of Egypt. They were so connected to average Egyptians that they saw 2011 coming – none did.

The Government fixes it – fixes a problem of its own creation.

The previous food subsidy program which was regarded as a god but its far from that. It promotes low nutrition foods which led to malnutrition but promote high calorie food which add to weight amongst the better off and others with related health problems.

President Sisi’s new food subsidy program, now run by the ever victorious army were told that the program promoted obesity/provided poor nutrition but have done nothing to improve the situation. As ever Egypt never learns from its mistakes – because humiliating mistakes have never existed in Egypt. ... n-problems

Sisi’s recent screeching on fat people, which includes him, avoids the obvious – the government food programs ‘feed’ the issue but this is a level of complexity/responsibility well beyond a man whose US War College essays were cretin standard – at best. Lets be clear about the Bedlam. Sisi wants people to be thin but spends billions to make them fat. That’s the type of mad paradox that has made Egypt famous for 70 years – for western and money going west and you never come back a second time,.

Bad food in kids affects economical and social performance.

Malnutrition affects the brain development generally in children as I mentioned above about Korea. IQ is linked to the development of the brain as an organ and in turn affects temperament, anti-social behavior and adaptability - a spectrum of issues - but its important. IQ and temperament are also influenced by parenting and community environment. IQ tests are sometimes seen as capitalist-Jewish conspiracy - usually by poor performers and whilst hey are not perfect and don’t just reflect the physical and food environments but also home and school (dreadful in Egypt).

How does Egypt rate on the IQ scale – assuming that the result is worse in Egypt for those with widespread malnutrition in the lower middle and lower classes. According to a middle ranking academic article IQ in Egypt is terrible.

China is 101 (don’t quite believe that one), Denmark is 97 as is France (definitely don’t believe that) with Germany 99, Indonesia is 86 and the UK 100 (I give the Brits the benefit of the doubt and a slight preference I have for them over la (dumb)belle France). There is no score for Australian – our sad maths skills prevent our test administrators adding up our own IQ test results.

Here are the bad stories. Egypt is 81, Iran 80, Jordan 82, Oman 81. Pakistan 82, Qatar 78 and Saudi 80. Turkey is 84. ... 013%29.pdf

No test is perfect but the spread of scores is dramatic and fits with subjective perceptions which are otherwise to be doubted on their own. The scores have to do with food, some with upbringing, some with DNA, some with disease and with schooling. Food, proper food, is easily fixed and not expensive or slow. These figures need to be handled carefully but I think most, with the possible exception of that great military regime Pakistan, are countries with a spread of scores are more compact than Egypt. That is to say, and I have no evidence, the pattern of IQ scores are very widely dispersed in Egypt because of malnutrition, poor health system for children and the world’s worst school system all of which affect the poor.

One should not make too much of these figures but a senior Egyptian bureaucrat (none exist) would have to say to the Cabinet that there is scientific evidence that Egypt may not be able to move to a middle income manufacturing economy, let alone IT, unless serious work is done to look into it, and health,food and education changes made, No such question has ever been asked and announced and absolutely nothing done to do other than fill mothers and babies with strarch and carbo and related.

Whether there is wide dispersal or not the absolute average is worrying and a sensible government would do everything to improve these poor results quickly with better quality food and other longer term things.

Before readers get anxious I’m not suggesting that IQ is the only predictor of success nor that IQ tests are reliable but its reasonable to assume that poor and bad food during pregnancy and after birth negatively affect all parts of the body including the brain. I’m also not suggesting that school, character and family cannot make up for some problems in this area but we know that Egyptian schools (but not the private schools for rich Egyptian kids) are the most shameful in the world and are going to help few – except the teachers. I am also not suggesting that IQ is race based.

The problem with Egypt wide studies and the shortage of studies about particular classes or specific regions is that the country studies include some high results from small numbers of middle and upper class kids and obscure/average out much worse scores from everyone else. These country figures don’t prove the link between malnutrition and IQ but the small number of regional studies in Egypt do.

The huge IQ gap for Egypt is made worse by the collapse of low skill and manual jobs in the world and their replacement by high/medium skill jobs demanding higher IQ’s. In simple terms low skill/low IQ jobs are disappearing, but maybe not in retarded mad Egypt, and the future everywhere if you want a middle income will be on moderate to high IQ’s in your workforce – if Egypt has a workforce/skills plan – it doesn’t. Its much worse in some regions and classes, possibly places with malnutrition, and shows the need for not just reform of education but a complete revolution to try harder to give people with low IQ’s job skills for the future.

Meanwhile Egypt has 12 million employed directly or indirectly in an industry that lacks innovation, technology, enterprise, training etc. Its agriculture but Egypt is one of the largest if not the largest pro rata importers of food in the world. Here is my odd point. Egypt cannot feed itself because farming is controlled and destroyed by government. Nevertheless it imports at immense costs mad foods which bloat the country and provide little that children need. To say such a system was exactly as intended would probably be the truth.

With the change in jobs it also means nutrition and kids becomes important to ensure people have the IQ’s for the jobs of the future – which won’t be basic farming work and certainly not manual harvesting of fruit and vegetables.

Some food is just bad – but fashionable or easy – like the Egyptian fast foods that are likely to have one effect to the military ‘advantage’ of the country – tens of thousands of explosions of men, its usually men , who look 24 months pregnant.

Its not just more food sometimes its what is in the food and eating 10 tons of bread a day is not the way to go. Another story.

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Re: Eat Yourself to Death.

Post by Dusak »

I've been a prolific bread eater my entire life, can easily get through a full loaf every three days. Doesn't effect my life or health as at near 66 I feel perfectly healthy and as fit as a fiddle as the saying goes. What I do believe in, is that it is more unhealthy reading and believing all these various heath reports telling you not to eat too much of a certain thing or completely change your eating lifestyle. And I have smoked since the age of eleven, so fifty five years of puffing. No chest problems or shortage of breath and I could, if I wanted to, run after the bus. I love loads of spuds in my meals, enjoyed processed cheese and the real deal all my life, gorge myself on meats, just love the fat and rind. One thing I truly miss in life living here, is chips cooked in beef dripping lard as I used to use in the UK for countless years. I also consume loads of butter every year and no, I'm not the size of the sacrificial pig :lol:
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: Eat Yourself to Death.

Post by Hafiz »

Dusak. I agree with you. Somethings are generally bad but have no effect on many individuals. Human life and the body varies widely and I would be the last to say cigarettes and bread, good bread, were bad in all cases.

My long winded point above made simple, and which I'm sure you agree with, is that food, nutrients, some vitamins etc are really important for pregnant mums and growing kids. The evidence above says this is badly handled, not researched locally and neither difficult not expensive to fix. The benefits of fixing it in developing children are that the chances of a long healthy and productive life are greatly improved and the costs to the state of looking after you reduced.

Pollution is the exception - difficult, expensive and slow to fix but with health and work benefits for adults/families on a huge scale.

My other point is, although local data doesn't do a class/region breakdown, that the negatives above fall on poor families and this can mean that their children have health and development issues that mean they stay in the poverty their parent's couldn't get out of. I assume, but don't know, that few of the pregnant mum's/young children problems above are found in the middle/upper classes.

As a general rule when I look at an Egyptian example/stats I assume its much worse in Upper Egypt, Sinai and the Oases and among st the poor generally. There are some studies mentioned above, not undertaken by Egyptians nor government, which confirm this as regards Upper Egypt. Here is the long point - if a region has significantly worse health/developed kids that the rest of Egypt isn't it going to be much harder for the region to develop//improve/prosper across the classes that the already hard task elsewhere?

It seems clear, but denied, that malnutrition is very significant in Egypt - which means its even higher in Upper Egypt and that independent stats show that the biggest killer of babies and young kids is malnutrition - 1/3rd (WHO). Meanwhile money is tossed around on the Canal, the new capital and new farming programs designed to fail as all before them have.

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