About photography Number 2

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Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Grandad - comparing the two Daff photos it is really dramatic the difference the polarizing filter makes. I have one for my 70-300mm lens and 'in time' will get one for the other lens too. I've got UV filters on the ends to protect them and will replace with polarizers when I get 'em.



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Post by LivinginLuxor »

I still think it is as simple as I suggested - opacity changes affect the entire current layer, but if you do not use a duplicate layer, ie work on the original, I don't think opacity comes into it, as with PSP you can't alter the opacity of the background layer. (or I haven't found a way to do it yet!)
I might agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong!
Stan

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Post by Grandad »

Like Kiya Horus, you have a gold star on the way. :) I don't find the 'Help' in PSP very, well, Helpful! :(

I tend to get lost in all those menus and then lose patience. :x It's an age thing I think... :)

Anyhow, your step by step guide was spot on and I just had to spend a few minutes, despite an hour less sleep, :( to try it out. Bingo! On this one I only reduced the background to 94% but I think that is enough to make the car stand out from the background.....

No comments about the image quality please.....I had done no tweaking on that and the hue, sharpness, straightness and cropping could do with improving. :(

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Grandad :gg:

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Post by Grandad »

I hadn't looked back at earlier posts, was impatient to try Horus's suggestions :)

Kiya, you take my sort of pictures, those three are lovely. I particularly like the water and reflections in the third one. Did you use a polariser????

LLL, glad you can see the difference that a polariser makes. In the old monochrome days we would use a yellow filter to do the same thing. Polarisers need to be used with some caution though. With a circular filter you only need to turn it until you see the slightest change through the viewfinder. Too much and you will darken the image.....like putting sunglasses over the lens.
Grandad :gg:

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Post by Horus »

LivinginLuxor wrote:I still think it is as simple as I suggested - opacity changes affect the entire current layer, but if you do not use a duplicate layer, ie work on the original, I don't think opacity comes into it, as with PSP you can't alter the opacity of the background layer. (or I haven't found a way to do it yet!)
I think that Grandad has found out that "the proof of the pudding" is in the fact that my method works, whereas what you are describing will change all of the layer opacity including your 'selection'. The only way to avoid this is to 'float' your selection as this temporarily removes it from the layer you are working on.

As to not being able to change the opacity of the background layer? First of all I assume you mean your original picture layer, as any layer could be renamed as background?
If so, then that layers opacity can certainly be changed to go up or down providing it is made the active layer.
However if you have made any duplicate or new raster layers, then unless you switch these new layers 'off' when you make your changes you would not see any that take place when you change the opacity as they are masked by the overlying layers
The same rule applies to editing your new layers.
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Post by Grandad »

LLL, just re-read your last post......don't replace your UV or skylight filter with a polariser. Only use a polariser at appropriate times, NOT as a lens protector. If you do you will get some very disappointing results when you forget to turn the polariser. :(

You can screw the polariser onto the lens protector, you don't need to remove that at all.....
Grandad :gg:

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Post by Grandad »

Horus, I don't wish to hog this thread but I have two more questions to ask re PSP.

Firstly, if in my picture I also wanted to select the areas in the wheel spokes, is it possible to do that. If I select and float one area I lose it when I try to select and float a second area. I thought it was possible to select several areas in a picture???

Secondly can you please explain what the diference is between raster and vector layers. And following from that what are art media, layer group, mask layer, and adjustment layers all about? As I have said, I don't have patience with the 'help'. Because it doesn't help, or at least, not in terms that simple folk can understand.
Cheers :)
Grandad :gg:

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Post by Horus »

Grandad wrote:
Firstly, if in my picture I also wanted to select the areas in the wheel spokes, is it possible to do that. If I select and float one area I lose it when I try to select and float a second area. I thought it was possible to select several areas in a picture???
OK Grandad, the first part is reasonably easy to answer for you, I assume that your problem is that after you have gone around the outline of your car, you then wish to select some other areas at the same time to include in your background when you change the opacity? But you then find that as you try to select a new part to include that the previous selection disappears?

Just select the areas in any way you wish to ie. ‘Magic Wand’ or any other method, but hold down the ‘Shift’ key as you make each of your other selections, remember to ‘right click’ your mouse after completing each separate selection. When complete you will need to ‘Float’ and ‘Defloat’ as described earlier before and after changing the opacity level. :)
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Post by Kiya »

Grandad I did not use a polariser on the ducks pic, I don't know what it is or would I know how to use it apart from reading above, I wanted to capture the motion on water from the ducks, when loaded to computer I sharpened the pic a little the same I did in pic below.
I'm still having big problems with focus when I seem to have foreground in focus I lose my sky & vice versa as you see in house pic below.
I'm beginning to lose patience with this problem & through my camera in the lake with the ducks :(

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Post by Grandad »

Thanks again H but, by trial and error, I found it is the control key not shift. Anyhow you have answered my question, thanks :)
Grandad :gg:

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Post by Horus »

Grandad wrote:Thanks again H but, by trial and error, I found it is the control key not shift. Anyhow you have answered my question, thanks :)
Are you sure Grandad? it should be the 'Shift' key, :) I cannot get it to do multiples by using the 'Ctrl' key, very strange :!:
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Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Didn't realize about the polarizer. I put it onto the end of the lens as a protector and have left it there. I had the UV as a protector, took it off and put the polarizer....Didn't realize the effect, though I was being bright about this! ;) Will switch back.....great "TIP"!!

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Post by Grandad »

Kiya, polarisers tend to reduce glare and haze like polarised sunglasses. I quickly did this very crude example to try to show you the effect. Polarisers work extremely well on water with ripples and glare...you can actually see through the glare. But, it is not something you would always want because they make water surface look too clean and a little unreal.

In this collage the left image has no polariser and the right one has. Although a poor example I think you can see more clarity of the screws in a bowl of water on the right. I used auto and you can see the effect on exposure of the polariser.

Image

Regarding your focussing 'problem'. I have two observations to make.

1) Are you familiar with focussing on an area of the scene that you want in focus then re-framing before pushing the shutter release fully down. You pre focus by pressing the shutter release half down and holding it while you frame the shot.

2) I believe you have a Sanyo W800 which has limited manual control. To get the whole scene in focus you need a small aperture (f number). If you cannot set this manually check out your 'scene position' options and try a landscape option. That might help.

Horus, I found that I had to work from the inside out. i.e. Do the spokes first and then the outline. But I still found it only worked with the control key. Maybe your copy is a later edition. Mine is just X2 not Ultimate.
Grandad :gg:

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Post by LivinginLuxor »

In Photoshop, and I think PSP, when making a selection, there are three buttons at the top of the screen. One replaces the selection, one adds to the selection (no need to use CTRL) and the third removes the selection.
I might agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong!
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Post by Kiya »

Grandad thanks for the explanation with the use of polarisers, I can see in your collage the difference it makes to pic, something to think about when I get a new camera sometime.
I was experimenting this morning with different modes, the picture below I set to "splash water" & "continous" & tried to capture the wave as it splashed against the rock, as far as I've been told from my brother a fisherman for 30yrs or more waves comes in 3's & the biggest is always the third 1.....so I think I captured it using "continous".
Also I don't know why it is that I always seem to get the sky in vocus when I'm taking seaviews.

I'm not getting to grips with resizing business, when I uploaded this pic I had to reduce it to 640-480 pxs when all other times I've uploaded pics with no borders etc 800-600 pxs was OK.
Is reducing pics by pxs reducing the quality of picture? & the overall size of pic in " ins " printed out version ?

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Post by Grandad »

Hi Kiya. I am having great trouble getting on here today. Have told DJK.

I said my example of polariser use was crude but I am pleased you can see the difference. It would be very pronounced on, say, a river with fish in...you would see the fish clearly.

In my example though the exposure is increased about 1 stop, doubled, with the polariser and it can be much more.

Just enlarged your pic to full size on my 22" screen and I see your concerns. Nothing seems to be in focus. Don't be misled into thinking the sky is in focus because skys tend to look OK in most shots. If the picture is as you framed it then I suspect your autofocus is 'hunting' for some change of contrast to focus on and the distant view is not giving anything.

Try what I suggested and focus on the rocks by half pressing the shutter release, hold your finger at that point while you re-frame then press right down to take the shot. The rocks give something more definite for the camera to focus on.

Generally when downsizing a jpeg image there will be some loss of quality. A sharpen before re-sizing will help. A tiff or raw image is much better in this respect with virtually no loss. However that is not the problem with re-sizing your picture, that I am afraid was out of focus when shot.

I DO like the scene though, shame your brothers boat was not in the shot. :) :)
Grandad :gg:

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Post by Horus »

Wow getting on here has been hellish and so many different bits going on in this thread at the moment so I will not comment on Kiya’s problems and leave that to Grandad so as not to complicate the answers we are giving to each other.

Just a quick comment for Kiya, it is not just your picture size in ‘pixels’ that will affect your uploading of a picture. The amount of information it contains (the Kilobytes) must not exceed 256 Kb, so an 800 x 800 picture may contain 200 Kb, but a smaller picture of say 640 x 480 but with more detail in it may still contain say 250Kb or more. So simply put, the more detail in a picture, the smaller you may have to make it to stay below 256Kb.

Firstly Stan’s comment on the three button options, yes there are also those same three choices in PSP and they appear under the ‘Mode ‘ selection option if you are using either the ‘Rectangular’ ‘Freehand’ or ‘Magic Wand’ tools to select your items with. You can choose any of these three options when using either method to select your areas ‘REPLACE’ ‘ADD’ (Shift)’ or ‘REMOVE (Ctrl)’

I was about to post before the site went down, that you (Grandad) may be using a slightly different choice of settings to what I use when carrying out that particular operation and the slight difference in versions may have some bearings on my answer to you.

I would suggest that you should try a fresh picture and choose the ‘Freehand’ lasso option and make sure that on the top menu bar ‘Selection Type’ is set to ‘Smart Edge’ and the ‘Mode’ option is set to the ‘Replace’ option, then try my method again to see if it works for you.

It is always worth remembering that any answers we give on these photo editing questions will inevitably be slightly different as each program and version will differ slightly, therefore they can only ever be a guide.

You also asked about layers and that is also a complicated subject that can vary over applications, so I have done a basic explanation that should give you a better understanding of them and I will post it as a separate post. But please be aware that there is a lot more to it than just these basic descriptions and only trial, error and experimentation will teach you all of the differences and uses for each type.
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Post by Grandad »

Thanks for all that Horus, something else to print off.

Yes, the forum has been hellish since yesterday. Either can't get on or things are so slow if you do and then I have been virtually unable to log off when using Chrome......wierd. Have mailed DJK although I know he shut things down last evening for maintenance as it was so bad yesterday evening.
Grandad :gg:

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Post by Grandad »

Thanks for all that Horus, something else to print off.

Yes, the forum has been hellish since yesterday. Either can't get on or things are so slow if you do and then I have been virtually unable to log off when using Chrome......wierd. Have mailed DJK although I know he shut things down last evening for maintenance as it was so bad yesterday evening.

Oooops.....waited a long time and thought it wasn't happening so submitted again.....WRONG!

Can't delete it :x
Grandad :gg:

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Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I've died and gone to photographers heaven! :):):):):):) Saturday I went to a Dog Easter Egg Hunt complete with dress up costumes and kids and agility etc. "I" played paparazzi! :) AND I submitted lots of my photos to the local newspaper who has now set them up as a special section! WOOOO HOOOO!!! I cropped and fixed and lightened and ran that PSP program on each and every one of them but mostly they turned out pretty good. I know I still need to learn to edit out things or delete and I'm also going to print out Horus' explanation of layers cause I'm not getting it and need a simplified version so that I can elminate what I do not want from my photos and keep what I do want (and ultimately I want to make pictures like Horus)

If this works it should scroll all the photos:

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/29/1 ... r-egg.html

Grandad I can see the difference between your polarizer and non-polarizer photo. Got it off my lens now and will use it only for specific shots but am leaving the UV filter on the end to protect it.

I think we NEED a new thread just for PSP or photo improvement tips cause we're on a bunch of topics here. Granted all related to photography but there is SOOOO MUCH to learn (and so little time! ;) )

I'm having a ball learning everything! Thank you all so much for all the help and suggestions and ideas. Your creativity is TERRIFIC!

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