The burial of Nefertiti ?

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by Frater0082 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:57 am

These theories are almost identical to those to the ones of KV:63, if not the same. So i'm hearing that the new head of antiquities believe its for Kiya. Zahi Hawass thought that about the last tomb and it turned out to be an embalmers cache.

For all we know it could be another storage room full of Amarna records.

I'm always baffled how everyone just by pass the possibly of Nefertiti being Tutankhamun's mother. I mean what evidence suggests that she is not the boys mother which most likely she is.

I'm sorry but this might sound very vague to you scholars and professionals but the chins on the mummies of kv35 and Kv55 are dead give a ways to the identity of the mummies and exuse me for saying this but it I find it weather dumb to not think that the Younger Lady is not Nefertiti.

The bald head, the swan neck, the band mark the right features I mean honestly doubt that thier were other Royal members prior to Nefertiti's daughters that had her features. Its crazy. Nefertiti was found already I think a lot of people still owe Joann Fletcher a decent apology.



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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by newcastle » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:34 am

You could well be right Frater. Reeves is in the "Tut's mother is Nefertiti " camp .

But if the Younger Lady has been identified as Tut's mother......?

Personally, I think too much emphasis had been placed on the DNA results from ancient bones of a notoriously incestuous family.

It now seems pretty clear that there are things to find behind those walls but I suspect it will be many months, if not years, before the means to get at them are developed, bearing in mind the desire not to further damage KV62.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by A-Four » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:10 am

newcastle wrote:
It now seems pretty clear that there are things to find behind those walls but I suspect it will be many months, if not years, before the means to get at them are developed, bearing in mind the desire not to further damage KV62.
I agree with you Newcastle, but am a little worried about certain people who only seek the 'glint of gold'. Remember there is a brand new museum being built in Cairo. In many ways this could be a win/lose situation for Reeves, he the wonders of discovery only, but like Carter events, political or otherwise may take over.

I remember a recent discovery in the Kings Valley where I would often see a well known international Egyptologist, simply sitting hour after hour on a wall at high noon, waiting to 'greet' one 'official' after another, the frustration on that mans face became so easy to detect as time went by, day, after day, after bloody day.

I wonder now, if Carter had been left alone to carry out his work correctly and in the manner we expect in Europe, perhaps he would have made the same connections (re-ceiling), as Mr Reeves has today.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by newcastle » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:49 am

It's certainly possible that Carter could have spotted what looks like a false wall A-Four. Also the somewhat unusual portraiture. He was incredibly meticulous.

Possibly he was distracted by the 'politics' surrounding the tomb....or overwhelmed by the sheer imensity of his
discovery.

Let's be grateful that you know who is no longer casting his shadow over the proceedings. It does look as if this exciting development is going to be handled properly and with transparency.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by newcastle » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:30 am

Get ready to eat that hat Zaki......


Hawass told The Art Newspaper that there was “very little evidence” for Reeves’s theory, which he believes will “die”. Known for his flamboyant style, Hawass was briefly minister for antiquities until he was forced out during political turmoil in 2011. As head of Egypt’s Supreme Council of Antiquities from 2002, he has masterminded research on Tutankhamun’s tomb.

From the same article.....

Physically, conducting a radar examination would be a simple process, and Reeves already has access to the equipment. However, getting the agreement of the Supreme Council of Antiquities may prove complicated, because of what Reeves has earlier called “archaeological politics”. In 2002, his excavation in the Valley of the Kings was suspended by Hawass’s office, following damaging rumours about trafficking in antiquities. Three years later, Reeves was cleared of irregularities, but he has still not received permission to continue work.

Well..he has now that Zaki isn't around to claim the glory.

http://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/news/158678/

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by Frater0082 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:29 pm

Despite his attitude the guy did bring Egyptology into a new direction I may have not known much of this family had it not been for him and Joann Fletcher so he's deserving of some credit.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by newcastle » Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:30 pm

The Minister of Antiquities has announced that the tomb of Horemheb (KV57) will reopen to the public on November 4th.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by A-Four » Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:04 pm

It appears from yesterday's meeting, our Mr Reeves has declared that the mask of Tutankhamen is probably the one made for Nefertiti. I am beginning to think he is making an error here in declaring to much information that may not fit to easy, when or if he finds what HE expects.

I have argued in the past, and on this site also, that I do not believe that the mask we see today in Cairo is that of Tutankhamen, the reason being is that his cartouche appears only on the right hand side in gold, even that is smudged. On the opposite side, what ever was there has been erased, and is quite obvious to the keen eye. The solid gold coffin is also questionable, and certainly many of the grave goods.

In the life of the Egyptologist, on the point of making a great discovery, there is no need to speculate, you just dig, if you have to come in contact with the press, you should say little or better still, nothing, then ALL the glory will be his.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by newcastle » Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:27 pm

I also thought Nicholas was getting a little carried away with references to Nefertiti. Likewise the minister's belief that they may find Kiya. Add to that the ability of the press to mis-report and you can see the opportinities for egg on faces.

Unfortunately it's going to be a fair while before anyone gets to look behind those walls so the speculation mill will run on.

As for the grave goods of Tutankhamun, the evidence is overwhelming that as much as 80% of them were originally made for other members of the Amarna royalty.

Even if there's not an undisturbed burial behind the wall, hopefully there will be more clues to who was who, and what happened to them at the end of the Amarna period.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by Winged Isis » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:08 pm

A-Four wrote:It appears from yesterday's meeting, our Mr Reeves has declared that the mask of Tutankhamen is probably the one made for Nefertiti. I am beginning to think he is making an error here in declaring to much information that may not fit to easy, when or if he finds what HE expects.

I have argued in the past, and on this site also, that I do not believe that the mask we see today in Cairo is that of Tutankhamen, the reason being is that his cartouche appears only on the right hand side in gold, even that is smudged. On the opposite side, what ever was there has been erased, and is quite obvious to the keen eye. The solid gold coffin is also questionable, and certainly many of the grave goods.

In the life of the Egyptologist, on the point of making a great discovery, there is no need to speculate, you just dig, if you have to come in contact with the press, you should say little or better still, nothing, then ALL the glory will be his.
You seem to me to contradict yourself in your first two paragraphs. The state of the cartouches is indeed a possible indication of the mask not being Tuts', but then so are the earring holes not found on any other male masks, as far as I know, which is what Reeves is saying, so from the above it seems you agree.
Carpe diem! :le:

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by Frater0082 » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:30 pm

The mask is for Tiye not for Nefertiti. If you look at the bust of Tiye and the mask you notice the same distinct face.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by A-Four » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:44 pm

Winged Isis wrote:
A-Four wrote:It appears from yesterday's meeting, our Mr Reeves has declared that the mask of Tutankhamen is probably the one made for Nefertiti. I am beginning to think he is making an error here in declaring to much information that may not fit to easy, when or if he finds what HE expects.

I have argued in the past, and on this site also, that I do not believe that the mask we see today in Cairo is that of Tutankhamen, the reason being is that his cartouche appears only on the right hand side in gold, even that is smudged. On the opposite side, what ever was there has been erased, and is quite obvious to the keen eye. The solid gold coffin is also questionable, and certainly many of the grave goods.

In the life of the Egyptologist, on the point of making a great discovery, there is no need to speculate, you just dig, if you have to come in contact with the press, you should say little or better still, nothing, then ALL the glory will be his.


You seem to me to contradict yourself in your first two paragraphs. The state of the cartouches is indeed a possible indication of the mask not being Tuts', but then so are the earring holes not found on any other male masks, as far as I know, which is what Reeves is saying, so from the above it seems you agree.
What I am trying to say here WI is that Reeves has made a fantastic discovery her, but seems to becoming obsessed with the idea that the tomb he is about to discover.is that of Nefertiti, and trying to point all factors to that person.. It would be better if he kept schtum on who this person may be until HE makes the big find, and then writes the book as to why he always thought it was that person, who he has actually found. It's called edging-your-bets for the blockbuster book, without your critics ganging up on you.

Many of the depictions of Akernaton show him with earring holes, therefore we can assume his sons had similar, and that their death masks would show the same.

Could this be the death mask of Smenhkar ?

Hold on here, I know who is behind the wall, but am saying nothing until It is released from that walled up tomb,,............then I shall tell why I have always thought it was that poor soul,..................and all credit to me. :wi :wi :wi :wi :wi .

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by A-Four » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:45 pm

Winged Isis wrote:
A-Four wrote:It appears from yesterday's meeting, our Mr Reeves has declared that the mask of Tutankhamen is probably the one made for Nefertiti. I am beginning to think he is making an error here in declaring to much information that may not fit to easy, when or if he finds what HE expects.

I have argued in the past, and on this site also, that I do not believe that the mask we see today in Cairo is that of Tutankhamen, the reason being is that his cartouche appears only on the right hand side in gold, even that is smudged. On the opposite side, what ever was there has been erased, and is quite obvious to the keen eye. The solid gold coffin is also questionable, and certainly many of the grave goods.

In the life of the Egyptologist, on the point of making a great discovery, there is no need to speculate, you just dig, if you have to come in contact with the press, you should say little or better still, nothing, then ALL the glory will be his.


You seem to me to contradict yourself in your first two paragraphs. The state of the cartouches is indeed a possible indication of the mask not being Tuts', but then so are the earring holes not found on any other male masks, as far as I know, which is what Reeves is saying, so from the above it seems you agree.
What I am trying to say here WI is that reeves has made a fantastic discovery her, but seems to becoming obsessed with the idea that the tomb he is about to discover.is that of Nefertiti, and trying to point all factors to that person.. It would be better if he kept schtum on who this person may be until HE makes the big find, and then writes the book as to why he always thought it was the person, who he has actually found. It's called edging-your-bets for the blockbuster book, without your critics ganging up on you.

Many of the depictions of Akernaton show him with earring holes, therefore we can assume his sons had similar, and that their death masks would show the same.

Could this be the death mask of Smenhkar ?

Hold on here, I know who is behind the wall, but am saying nothing until It is released from that walled up tomb,,............then it's all credit to me. :wi :wi :wi :wi :wi .

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by Frater0082 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:09 am

I too strongly think that perhaps Smenkhare could be buried in this secret chamber or chambers he is the only one who is not known to have any evidence of being buried in the Amarna Tombs.

To me it makes perfect sense why he wasn't buried in the tombs. Flipping to my story Smenk'are disappeared right after the demise of Nefertiti in Y16. Smenk'are was Akhenaten's co-regent and nothing much he was half Tut's age and could've easily passed as Tut's older brother hell he looked like an older brother.

He didn't rule that long so he wouldn't have much to be buried with so that would explain why he would have extra room in his tomb enough space to bury yet another king.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by newcastle » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:20 am

I see what A-Four's getting at and agree.

Egyptologists are renowned for developing theories, padding them out with selected data, ignoring contrary indications, and sticking to their hypothesis through thick and thin.

I read somewhere Reeves had put a 60% probability on it being Nefertiti and I think some of the press reports have then upped this to ' certain ' !

ElDamaty seems equally sure it's anyone but Nefertiti as he doesn't think the guru of Atenism would have been interred in the HQ of Amun.

@ Frater I wouldn't give too much credence to apparent similarities of the physiognomy of statues, reliefs...or masks.

An example : much is made of Tutankhamun's mask having pierced ears....and kings never wore earrings. Really? Any eyewitnesses about?

As A-Four mentioned, Akhenaton is certainly portrayed with pierced earlobes and I have seen reliefs depicting him wearing earrings.

Incidentally, in the latest interview Eldamaty seemed dismissive of Reeves' view that the face mask of Tutankhamun was made for Nefertiti. According to the report he said it had Tut's cartouche so it belongs to him!!

I doubt this was an accurate report of Eldamaty's views! Anything you read in the press needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I wouldn't put any money on there being anyone, or indeed anything, behind those walls until they've put camera through to have a shufti.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by carrie » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:58 am

I too know what is behind that sealed up wall but will refrain from saying until the news is released then I will tell you all that I was right.
Unfortunately it's not only Egyptologists who use selective information to prove a point, read the historians accounts of the same incidents and depending on their own bias's you get a different interpretation.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by A-Four » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:49 pm

carrie wrote:
Unfortunately it's not only Egyptologists who use selective information to prove a point, read the historians accounts of the same incidents and depending on their own bias's you get a different interpretation.
It's funny you should mention this Carrie, two very interesting programs on the B.B.C. this week. One was about photography, a very famous photograph of Winston Churchill, sat looking rather gruff with no cigar in his mouth, was only achieved when, without warning the photographer snatched the thing from Churchill's mouth. This information would never have been given out in Churchill's life time.

The other program was about the disillusion of the monasteries in the reign of Henry V111. Presented by a quite young woman, who evidently had spent earlier years as a Goth, I captivated with practically every word she said. She explained quite well that this act by Henry had very little to do with the refusal by the Pope to allow him a divorce, and her evidence was quite stunning.

For the first time ordinary people, who are not readers of history, suddenly realised that all they had been taught at school on this subject was not quite true. A pleasant change from those two old 'head in the sand' self authoritarians Schama, and his mate.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by Frater0082 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:54 pm

carrie wrote:I too know what is behind that sealed up wall but will refrain from saying until the news is released then I will tell you all that I was right.
Unfortunately it's not only Egyptologists who use selective information to prove a point, read the historians accounts of the same incidents and depending on their own bias's you get a different interpretation.
Well I'll be waiting.

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by A-Four » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:00 pm

Frater0082 wrote:
carrie wrote:I too know what is behind that sealed up wall but will refrain from saying until the news is released then I will tell you all that I was right.
Unfortunately it's not only Egyptologists who use selective information to prove a point, read the historians accounts of the same incidents and depending on their own bias's you get a different interpretation.
Well I'll be waiting.
Well, she might keep you waiting for some time here Frater, unless our Mr Reeves gets his finger out. :wi .

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Re: The burial of Nefertiti ?

Post by A-Four » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:03 pm

I'm on a train travelling to Weymouth, picked up a discarded newspaper, not much joy, ended up its The Sun, hate that paper, Page 34, sensationalism at its best, Nefertiti this, Nefertiti that, nothing really about Reeves, except a small head picture to give the appearance of a Chad. So the circus clowns have already started.

Their journalist is obviously not on the ground, the editors of the world are waiting for the big find, though should it happen, Reeves will set up a bidding war, then the rest will have to make up their story as they go along,.................funny how history repeats itself, even in the old King's Valley. :wi :wi :wi .

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