Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Luxor is ancient Thebes and has a fascinating past. Share your knowledge or ask your questions here.

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Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Hafiz »

There are a lot of them around and those like the BBC and National Geographic that once did them well have descended into cheap ‘glamorous’ ones with pretty boys and girls as presenters who can’t even pronounce the names of locations whilst they adjust their designer jeans.

The decline of the National Geographic into ratings chasing is very sad.

This doco is European (French 2017) so Brexiteers should go no further, get the gun out and shot the TV screen. "Egypt's Sun King the Mystery Tombs" – in English. Slightly unusual because it stays well away from the crowd pleasing obvious. Unusually it tries to link several sites in Luxor into a single story. (Other than Tut 95% of Egyptology docos have very little to do with Luxor - wonder why)

It’s the University of Basel, detailed, technical, not boring but complicated and tries to link a minor tomb, KV 40, in the VOK to Amenhotep 3 and his much bigger projects. Their team has been in Luxor since at least 2010 and they present as organized, low-key, intelligent and practical. They are not TV babes nor would they want to be. There are some unexpected results in their work.

Significant practical observations for those who are interested in how things are done/not done:

1. Overwhelmingly the successful project leaders/dig leaders are women and should have been expelled by Hawass At the least these careful, reasoned, intelligent women should have be forced to do a course in Egyptian/western media whoredom – Egypt style, with special training in fiasco and farce.

2. No Egyptian doing anything significant except menial work.

3. Basic equipment like very simple X-Rays had to be brought in from Europe even though Hawass had ‘taken’ all the western money and ‘set up’ a big science lab. Where is it?

4. Europeans use gloves at all times whereas Egyptians never – even when handling 3500 year old sarcophagi. Amazing.

5. Big lumps of Amenhotep 3’s west bank temple was recycled after its earthquake collapse into the fabric of Karnak.

6. Western dig teams have an interdisciplinary skill base – including evolutionary medicine and anthropology. Egyptian teams have none of this and therefore miss most.

7. These western teams have no Egyptians in responsible positions. Whether that is racism or good judgment I don’t know.

8. Storage facilities (presumably at Luxor) are badly designed and not climate/moisture controlled. In no case was there a raised table/inspection table so every examination was with archaeologists crouching down on all fours. I assume the Supreme Antiques built these storage facilities because they are badly designed, not very functional and with the poor workmanship the Antiques are famous for. There seemed no obvious scientific lab type aspect to these facilities, not reduced lighting (very surprising) or spotlighting for careful examination which is exactly as one person would want it - leave it to the discriminating eye of a genius and the PR conference.

9. Major work on Amenhotep’s west bank temple/Colossi a few years ago used basic technology and scores of local staff to pull big objects around. No similar archaeology work in Italy, Greece or even India would be so backward and primitive. Its pathetic. Complicated tasks were not performed by Egyptians, locals seemed to have few skills on big movement/objects tasks and again some basic technology had to be brought from Europe. The local skill base for work below that of a full archaeologist but above that of a digger seemed to be zero maybe because middle class Egyptians have a deep distaste for high level technical/practical work as beneath their elevated, but fragile, social status.

Egypt is unique. There is no country on earth that so lacks the initiative or skills to do any significant work on its heritage/history. Even dirt poor Colombia tries harder. The achievement of 70 years of the Supreme Antiques is to go back to where they started 200 years ago – sit back and let others do it. They achieved nothing except graft and bribes and always saw their history as a travel pull card rather than doing their job. The lack of local skills, proper university courses of standing, and journals of standing and relevant science is staggering. They don't even have an inventory of what is in the Tahir museum after 10 years of saying they were doing it (with volunteers - a fiasco) - and millions of western money. If you don't even know what you've got how can you work out what to do with it?

It is also more than likely that they have no single document/data base on all the sites and holdings of objects in the storage facilities - nor have even tried to do this.

I think its true there is no central record/data base of the holdings in the 18 or so regional museums and the same is probably true of the dozens of other museums/art galleries.

A reference to the doco is at: https://www.unibas.ch/en/News-Events/Ne ... alley.html but can’t find any video/YouTube link – that is very odd. Others might have success. Reviews of it are scant but its not impossible that as a new doco its neither posted nor reviewed. The Basels also found the world’s oldest sun-dial – but Hawass said he found it – 30 years ago, and that all Basels lie.

Like a lot of media things in life - without a promoter/muscled presenter/big breasts it gets lost.

Links:
https://www.unibas.ch/en/News-Events/Ne ... ldren.html
https://www.archaeology.wiki/blog/2014/ ... -children/
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/basel-team- ... s/38477170

The doco is interesting because it tries to avoid the three ring circus/McDonalds type objects and focuses on how the small and interesting is linked to the large. A bit like Rohmer 4 decades ago. It avoids dramatic music, panning, tight jolty edits and ariel shots - thank god.


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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Winged Isis »

I recorded it and will be watching later this week when I have time.
Hafiz wrote:It avoids dramatic music, panning, tight jolty edits and ariel shots - thank god.
This is my absolute pet hate on any documentary. It's usually the Yanks at fault. I invariably change channels after a few minutes. The silly zooming in and out gives me a headache. The constant changing of images every other second too, giving you no time to get a decent look at anything. The over-dramatisation and flowery language (often ungrammatical in the case of the Yank: Adverbs mainly have an 'ly' on the end people! :xx ) just get in the way of what could be a good story in the right hands.

The Yanks also have the ridiculous habit of having a long intro telling what they are going to show you, then constantly telling what's coming up next (after the interminable ad breaks), so that little time is left for the actual topic. Because they usually have very little worthwhile content to start with, so need to fill the hour somehow.

If it features a Yank presenter, I'm ready with remote, as they are an indication of a probable wasted hour ahead. I nearly always record documentaries now rather than watch 'live', so I can zip past the rubbish bits.

"(Other than Tut 95% of Egyptology docos have very little to do with Luxor - wonder why)"

Lord knows.

This one I'm looking forward to. Thanks for the review, Hafiz. :wi
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Winged Isis »

I recorded it and will be watching later this week when I have time.

You raise so many valid points. Thanks for the review, Hafiz, I look forward to watching. :wi
Hafiz wrote:There are a lot of them around and those like the BBC and National Geographic that once did them well have descended into cheap ‘glamorous’ ones with pretty boys and girls as presenters who can’t even pronounce the names of locations whilst they adjust their designer jeans.

The decline of the National Geographic into ratings chasing is very sad.

This doco is European (French 2017) so Brexiteers should go no further, get the gun out and shot the TV screen. "Egypt's Sun King the Mystery Tombs" – in English. Slightly unusual because it stays well away from the crowd pleasing obvious. Unusually it tries to link several sites in Luxor into a single story. (Other than Tut 95% of Egyptology docos have very little to do with Luxor - wonder why) Lord knows.

It’s the University of Basel, detailed, technical, not boring but complicated and tries to link a minor tomb, KV 40, in the VOK to Amenhotep 3 and his much bigger projects. Their team has been in Luxor since at least 2010 and they present as organized, low-key, intelligent and practical. They are not TV babes nor would they want to be. There are some unexpected results in their work.

Significant practical observations for those who are interested in how things are done/not done:

1. Overwhelmingly the successful project leaders/dig leaders are women and should have been expelled by Hawass At the least these careful, reasoned, intelligent women should have be forced to do a course in Egyptian/western media whoredom – Egypt style, with special training in fiasco and farce.

2. No Egyptian doing anything significant except menial work.

3. Basic equipment like very simple X-Rays had to be brought in from Europe even though Hawass had ‘taken’ all the western money and ‘set up’ a big science lab. Where is it?

4. Europeans use gloves at all times whereas Egyptians never – even when handling 3500 year old sarcophagi. Amazing.

5. Big lumps of Amenhotep 3’s west bank temple was recycled after its earthquake collapse into the fabric of Karnak.

6. Western dig teams have an interdisciplinary skill base – including evolutionary medicine and anthropology. Egyptian teams have none of this and therefore miss most.

7. These western teams have no Egyptians in responsible positions. Whether that is racism or good judgment I don’t know.

8. Storage facilities (presumably at Luxor) are badly designed and not climate/moisture controlled. In no case was there a raised table/inspection table so every examination was with archaeologists crouching down on all fours. I assume the Supreme Antiques built these storage facilities because they are badly designed, not very functional and with the poor workmanship the Antiques are famous for. There seemed no obvious scientific lab type aspect to these facilities, not reduced lighting (very surprising) or spotlighting for careful examination which is exactly as one person would want it - leave it to the discriminating eye of a genius and the PR conference.

9. Major work on Amenhotep’s west bank temple/Colossi a few years ago used basic technology and scores of local staff to pull big objects around. No similar archaeology work in Italy, Greece or even India would be so backward and primitive. Its pathetic. Complicated tasks were not performed by Egyptians, locals seemed to have few skills on big movement/objects tasks and again some basic technology had to be brought from Europe. The local skill base for work below that of a full archaeologist but above that of a digger seemed to be zero maybe because middle class Egyptians have a deep distaste for high level technical/practical work as beneath their elevated, but fragile, social status.

Egypt is unique. There is no country on earth that so lacks the initiative or skills to do any significant work on its heritage/history. Italy has the skills, but has endless corruption, so funds are re-directed, as in Egypt. Pompeii is a disaster.
Even dirt poor Colombia tries harder. The achievement of 70 years of the Supreme Antiques is to go back to where they started 200 years ago – sit back and let others do it. They achieved nothing except graft and bribes and always saw their history as a travel pull card rather than doing their job. The lack of local skills, proper university courses of standing, and journals of standing and relevant science is staggering. They don't even have an inventory of what is in the Tahir museum after 10 years of saying they were doing it (with volunteers - a fiasco) - and millions of western money. If you don't even know what you've got how can you work out what to do with it?

It is also more than likely that they have no single document/data base on all the sites and holdings of objects in the storage facilities - nor have even tried to do this.

I think its true there is no central record/data base of the holdings in the 18 or so regional museums and the same is probably true of the dozens of other museums/art galleries.

A reference to the doco is at: https://www.unibas.ch/en/News-Events/Ne ... alley.html but can’t find any video/YouTube link – that is very odd. Others might have success. Reviews of it are scant but its not impossible that as a new doco its neither posted nor reviewed. The Basels also found the world’s oldest sun-dial – but Hawass said he found it – 30 years ago, and that all Basels lie.

Like a lot of media things in life - without a promoter/muscled presenter/big breasts it gets lost. Absolutely.

Links:
https://www.unibas.ch/en/News-Events/Ne ... ldren.html
https://www.archaeology.wiki/blog/2014/ ... -children/
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/basel-team- ... s/38477170

The doco is interesting because it tries to avoid the three ring circus/McDonalds type objects and focuses on how the small and interesting is linked to the large. A bit like Rohmer 4 decades ago. It avoids dramatic music, panning, tight jolty edits and ariel shots - thank god. This is my absolute pet hate on any documentary. It's usually the Yanks at fault. I invariably change channels after a few minutes. The silly zooming in and out gives me a headache. The constant changing of images every other second too, giving you no time to get a decent look at anything. The over-dramatisation and flowery language (often ungrammatical in the case of the Yank: Adverbs mainly have an 'ly' on the end people! :xx ) just get in the way of what could be a good story in the right hands.

The Yanks also have the ridiculous/frustrating habit of having a long intro telling what they are going to show you, then constantly telling what's coming up next (after the interminable ad breaks), so that little time is left for the actual topic. Because they usually have very little worthwhile content to start with, so need to fill the hour somehow.

If it features a Yank presenter, I'm ready with remote, as they are an indication of a probable wasted hour ahead. I nearly always record documentaries now rather than watch 'live', so I can zip past the rubbish bits
.
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by newcastle »

I envy you, Hafiz, being able to watch a serious egyptology documentary . I've found the TV prog but, even with an SBS account, I can't seem to access it. Maybe I'll have more luck on my PC when it returns from the local "doctor"......if it survives their ministrations.

I've been following the KV 40 exploration - and that of the adjacent KV 64 (also Bickel).

Regarding Egyptian involvement in excavations, yes, it does have a unhappy history....hardly surprising given the French ran the show in the early days and had a distinctly dismissive attitude to Egyptians generally. Hawass might be credited with raising popular awareness of Egypt's treasures, but the least said about his contribution to serious egyptology, the better. Nor does he seem to have stimulated the technical advancement of his fellow Egyptians in this field. Maybe he was afraid of being overshadowed by others more competent?

I think the skills of Egyptian egyptologists have increased significantly in recent years with modern technology being brought in as required. It's no surprise that Egypt hasn't the range of facilities one would like. Mismanagement, lack of money and revolutions have seen to that.

The GEM contains state of the art restoration facilities and the teams at work there certainly wear gloves, masks etc. The environment is also climate controlled.

Whether all the stuff being exhumed from the bowels of the museum in Tahrir Square has been irreparably damaged, we'll have to see.
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Winged Isis »

I watched it during my lunch today (couldn't wait :) ). It was wonderful. Early in, I remembered a couple of years ago I had heard Prof. Bickel speak of the tombs at an Egyptology conference at Macquarie Uni, Sydney. An excellent day.

I also remembered in 2009, while over the Ramesseum in a balloon, I filmed workmen below moving a large piece of statue on wooden rollers, but not as skilfully as those in this doco.

Hope you get to see it newcastle. Worth the wait.
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by FarleyFlavors »

Sounds like an interesting documentary but like Newcastle, I can't access it from outside Oz.
Winged Isis wrote:The Yanks also have the ridiculous/frustrating habit of having a long intro telling what they are going to show you, then constantly telling what's coming up next (after the interminable ad breaks), so that little time is left for the actual topic.
You mean like this?
phpBB [video]
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by FarleyFlavors »

Hafiz wrote:There are a lot of them around and those like the BBC and National Geographic that once did them well have descended into cheap ‘glamorous’ ones with pretty boys and girls as presenters who can’t even pronounce the names of locations whilst they adjust their designer jeans.
To be fair, Joann Fletcher's BBC documentaries weren't terrible. And she's not exactly catwalk material...

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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Who2 »

FarleyFlavors wrote:
Hafiz wrote:There are a lot of them around and those like the BBC and National Geographic that once did them well have descended into cheap ‘glamorous’ ones with pretty boys and girls as presenters who can’t even pronounce the names of locations whilst they adjust their designer jeans.
To be fair, Joann Fletcher's BBC documentaries weren't terrible. And she's not exactly catwalk material...

Image
Zahi Hawass might disagree with you there, mind you he's Egyptian..... 8)
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by newcastle »

FarleyFlavors wrote:
Hafiz wrote:There are a lot of them around and those like the BBC and National Geographic that once did them well have descended into cheap ‘glamorous’ ones with pretty boys and girls as presenters who can’t even pronounce the names of locations whilst they adjust their designer jeans.
To be fair, Joann Fletcher's BBC documentaries weren't terrible. And she's not exactly catwalk material...

Image
"Weren't terrible".......talk about damning with faint praise :lol:

I think she knows her onions but a bit over-emotional for my taste.

And she should ditch that silly umbrella and get her hair sorted.

And elocution lessons.

Otherwise....ok
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Winged Isis »

FarleyFlavors wrote:Sounds like an interesting documentary but like Newcastle, I can't access it from outside Oz.
Winged Isis wrote:The Yanks also have the ridiculous/frustrating habit of having a long intro telling what they are going to show you, then constantly telling what's coming up next (after the interminable ad breaks), so that little time is left for the actual topic.
You mean like this?
phpBB [video]
:))) :))) :))) Nailed it!
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Winged Isis »

newcastle wrote:I think she knows her onions but a bit over-emotional for my taste.
The rest doesn't/shouldn't matter.
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by newcastle »

Winged Isis wrote:I watched it during my lunch today (couldn't wait :) ). It was wonderful. Early in, I remembered a couple of years ago I had heard Prof. Bickel speak of the tombs at an Egyptology conference at Macquarie Uni, Sydney. An excellent day.

I also remembered in 2009, while over the Ramesseum in a balloon, I filmed workmen below moving a large piece of statue on wooden rollers, but not as skilfully as those in this doco.

Hope you get to see it newcastle. Worth the wait.
Alas....unlikely. This is the message I get from my SBS account :

"Sorry,
Due to publishing rights, the content you are trying to watch is currently not available outside of Australia"

Bit like BBC iplayer
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Winged Isis »

:( for you.

i think one of the reasons I liked it so much was it appealed as an excellent teaching resource for K-6 kids.
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by newcastle »

Winged Isis wrote:
newcastle wrote:I think she knows her onions but a bit over-emotional for my taste.
The rest doesn't/shouldn't matter.

I know.....

but trying to concentrate on the egyptology when it's spouted by a Mary Poppins lookalike (always in black) with a broad Yorkshire accent is a strain.

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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Horus »

And she should ditch that silly umbrella and get her hair sorted.
Can’t disagree about the hair, it is a bit 1990’s, but I believe that the umbrella is down to the fact that her skin is sensitive to sunlight which seems to be born out by her rosy cheeks. As for the black outfit, well we can’t really condemn her too much as just about every Egyptologist from Zahi to Bob Briar all have their unique dress style for TV.
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by newcastle »

Horus wrote:
And she should ditch that silly umbrella and get her hair sorted.
Can’t disagree about the hair, it is a bit 1990’s, but I believe that the umbrella is down to the fact that her skin is sensitive to sunlight which seems to be born out by her rosy cheeks. As for the black outfit, well we can’t really condemn her too much as just about every Egyptologist from Zahi to Bob Briar all have their unique dress style for TV.
Wearing black certainly helps her blend in with the local women :lol:

I take your point about her obvious sun-sensitivity. Must be a bummer for an egyptologist.

It's the ways she ascribes emotions and feelings to long-dead characters that I could do without. Having said that, I'd rather listen to her than Hawass or Brier.
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Horus »

She does tend to get a bit emotional :lol: :lol:
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Who2 »

All 'ginger-mingers are susceptible to the sun.... 8)
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by Hafiz »

Newcastle. I suspect but do not know that the doco is new on the market/televised little elsewhere. Therefore my guess is that in 12 months time there will be more reviews and Youtube availability.

As far as the SBS problem have you not looked at the technology/software, simple cheap and I think legal, which locates your computer outside all forms of identification/country. VPN and other words might throw it up. I looked at a while ago and gave up because it seemed more that I needed. In one case I can think of it means you get around some countries who want to block sites and, in another, the copyright issues with SBS.

Agree about Fletcher but the umbrella and some of the clothes are aggravating and distract attention from her delivery. To my tastes there is a little to much of her and too little of the objects/history etc.

Newcastle your optimism about the new ugly concrete hunk designed by some useless Dublin kids with no track record - is misplaced. (When Egypt gave them the contract they did not have an office, telephone nor secretary/assistant and little work achievement beyond painting their grandmothers ceiling - only a person prepared to ignore all risk would give them a dollar) I'm lazy so can't find links but my memory is generally pretty good. About 18 months ago some insiders said the labs were chaos. Badly managed, broken machines, staff shortages, poorly trained staff were not the worst of their story - multiple sources and a credible newspaper. About 6 months ago the Supreme Destructors, oddly, announced an overseas recruitment program to staff the labs. That seemed to confirm parts of the earlier story. The idea that the Destructors could manage anything is delusional, the idea that overseas tech experts are cheap is mad, the idea than any human being would get pleasure and stay working in a hulk in the middle of nowhere with no trees or anything green - overly optimistic.

A general point. Archaeology in Egypt is a shambles. Educational standards are appealing. There is no journal published in Egypt on archaeology that has value outside a rural toilet and no conferences of any standing have been held in Egypt for ages. The worst of the lot is the failure to invest in middle market skills - sub archaeologist but above digger - including restorers etc. .A related matter are curatorial/design/presentation skills which must be the worst in the world bar none. Even the very poor and blood soaked Cambodians try hard with some success.

My assumption is that if you hear a really bad rumor about the Destructors - assume its five times worse in reality. When was the last time they had a good news story they were actually responsible for believed by a person with a brain.

The guts of the new museum are that its 100%-200% over time 300% over budget, the center of Egyptian pride but the Egyptians have contributed not a penny to it and have stuffed up the building of it to a high degree. The Japs have provided $US600-900 million to build this ugly hulk, will probably write it all off and the workmanship on it is what you expect - very poor to poor.

The general pyramid area is ugly, chaotic, dirty and disorganized enough as it is. It will now have one of the ugliest buildings in the world and maybe 1,000 more buses a day.
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Re: Luxor Archaeology Documentary.

Post by newcastle »

Hafiz - did I sound optimistic about the GEM? Didn't mean to.

The recent BBC prog showed staff in gloves and masks....but it could have been CGI.

The boat restoration team is headed by Japs.

I agree that technology/restoration is not an Egyptian strong point. Wasn't it German restorers who fixed Tut's beard after the staff at the museum did a botch job with superglue?
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