The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

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The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by Aromagician »

The Black Madonna is an interesting subject.
I was researching her last night.
Symbolically she is related to the darkness. But that does not make her bad. Just a goddess/ or saint that is present when times are dark I found a great article on it called the Mysterious Black faces of the Madonna by Eliza Rozet.
.Most Black Madonnnas have a strong connection to the earth. They are found buried in it (see Guadalupe de Caceres) or appear in trees (see Telgte), caves (see Montserrat), springs (see Font-Romeu), on mountain tops (see Dorres), by a sacred rock (see Le-Puy), and in the jungle (see Costa Rica). Often they are found with the help of animals guiding the way (see Olot). And so Pagan worship of Mother Earth turned into a Christian closeness to God’s sacred creation, mother nature.

She says this:
They are portrayed in the position called "majesty" or "Seat of Wisdom". Mary sits on a throne with
a low back; she holds a toddler Jesus on her knees; both look straight ahead - no demurely down cast eyes. In the
language of medieval symbolism this means that Mary is the throne of Jesus, the Seat of Wisdom.
Seat of Wisdom was also one of the titles of the Egyptian goddess Isis, like Mary, often portrayed with her son Horus
on her lap. Mary shares many other goddess titles, like Queen of Heaven, Star of the Sea, Morning Star, etc. One of her
most interesting titles, reminiscent of her identification with Lady Wisdom, the feminine face of God, is Adonai, which
is Hebrew for Lord God. There is a dark 3rd century fresco of the Madonna with child in Brucoli, Sicily known as
Madonna Adonai, Saint Mary Adonai, Most Holy Mother Adonai, or simply Adonai. (see: Mary Beth Moser, "Honoring
Darkness: Exploring the Power of Black Madonnas in Italy", Dea Madre Publishing, p.105)
Further on she says:
"Now, some of the most important Pre-Christian goddesses who were worshipped side by side with Christ, overtly until
the 6th century, covertly until the 11th, are associated with the color black. Why? Going back to prehistoric times,
black was the symbol for the earth and the Great Mother, the source of heaven and earth. The darker earth is, the more
fertile, hence black is the color of fertility and creative power. But the ancient peoples knew that that which has power
to create and to bring forth life also has power to destroy. Hence black also became the color of death and destruction. So the Great dark Mother became known as "the Gate of Life" which opens both ways, to life on earth and to death, or life in the Goddess after physical death.
.. (
Isis clearly was a black goddess as well. She bought her husband Osiris back from the dead. A powerful symbol of life and death. Power and mysticism.
Black- earth= unconscious world=Yin= creation.
Any thoughts on the Black ISIS and what her presentation in that form means?


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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by newcastle »

My only thought is that this post should be under the “Myth, Magic and Spirituality” section.

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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by A-Four »

Really wonderful to hear from the old school, very busy at the moment Aromagician, but will write a little information for you by the end of the week-end. :wi .

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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by A-Four »

When we look very carefully at New Zealand history, we would mention the Maori people though few would have heard of the Moriori. Here in London there is a church called All Saints in Stepney, its windows bombed out in the war, now replaced depicting an image of a light skinned, Blonde hair and blue eyed Jesus Christ. If we were to use this image as a fulcrum to base a new religion in today's modern world, it would not travel far.

If we look for the idea of a black Isis, it is difficult to find representation in Egyptian museums, though this was so in the old Coptic Museum in Cairo and the old small Nubian Museum in Asswan some 25 years ago. For over a hundred years Egypt was ruled by the Nubian pharaohs of 25th Dynasty. Isis was then regarded as the "Great lady of Nubia", after all, her temple was in Lower Nubia. Further more most of the population of that area were black. We also know today that the Nubian pharaohs always referred to Isis as their "heavenly mother". Even up until the Greek era, we find that Isis is identified as "a black and ruddy woman endowed with life, sweet of love". - Hathor Temple, Dendarah.

To find the black Madonna in modern day Christianity, I believe we have to look towards mid-western Africa, and the old goddess known as Oya. During the Colonnial period, many of these people were transported as slaves to the southern states of the U.S.A., but also ( and more interesting to our case here), Brazil. It was here that the belief in Goddess Oya was able to flourish without too much influence from the Christian church.

Today, in Brazil these same black people who have now welcomed the Roman Catholic faith, along with others in the American southern states, have not forgotten Goddess Oya, she has simply been incorporated into the faith, and is now known as Gran Brigit or Saint Brigit. (Not to be confused with St Bridid of Kildare, Ireland.) You would be very confused in most Catholic church's there, where people can be seen worshiping a black mother and child, but not as you would expect the Virgin Mary, it is in fact the old African Goddess Oya.

Over recent years the Virgin Mary has been elevated by various Popes, we see today she is called "The Queen of Heaven", a sort of old into new. These days a vast amount of money comes into the coffers of the Roman Catholic Church from the Americas,........so I wonder how long it will be before we see a Black Madonna at Headquarters in Rome. The day may come soon where the Virgin Mary may become more important than Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church, after all more candles are lit to her worship than the godhead.

For further research on the idea of a black Isis, study Meri and Mehet-weret.

Do be very careful about using the Internet as a reference start, not much real info there.

P.S. - best wishes for your research,...........do you still have bottle-shops in NZ.

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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by Aromagician »

Yes we do have bottle stores in NZ :)
I will look up Oya I have not heard of that goddess before. I believe that the goddess in NZ that equates to the Black Madonna and Isis would be the goddess Muri Ranga Whenua. She lives in the earth ( maui gets there via a hole under a bush by transforming himself into a bird) very shamanic really. Many cultures seem to use the bird as a symbol for a spirit body. In Egyptian the BA is pictured as a bird. Now some would say the BA is the soul or spirit of the dead. But does one have to die to have a spirit? I think not. So perhaps the BA, or a bird can be used to travel to the spirit world whilst one is still alive?
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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by Aromagician »

I am not at my home, so cannt reference any of my books. We are in Lock down at my Mothers house. So internet references it must be. She has many books on the maori and some mystical ones which I may have to explore soon, but not many on Egypt. I think I may have already taken them home on another ocasion.
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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by Aromagician »

newcastle wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:14 am
My only thought is that this post should be under the “Myth, Magic and Spirituality” section.
Well is it a myth? Not really. it is discussing the Archaeolgical statues that have been found of the black madonna and what their possible meaning could be.
I did pop over to Politics and religion for a look, but lots of Politics and not much else going on there at the moment. :D
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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by A-Four »

Aromagician wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:26 pm
She has many books on the maori and some mystical ones which I may have to explore soon,
Outside of New Zealand few people study the early indigenous people of that fantastic country, and I do not mean the Maori people, but the earlier civilisation known as the Moriori, but please do not believe the utter rubbish about cannibalism that is written on the Internet.

Unfortunately, I get very little time to write on this forum these days, perhaps also there are so few who debate, unlike the period of when the likes of Charlie and Stan were on here. I knew Charlie quite well, but in conversation we never discussed Egyptology, bring probably it was the last thing I wanted to do in the late evenings, when I lived in Egypt.

Stan, I knew from when he first arrived in Luxor, by the time I came on this site, I was not going to pretend I knew very little about Egypt, but I think it was the Dr on here who once said of me 'He thinks he's Charlie'. When I asked Stan what was meant by this, he told me that this was an old friend I had known, who wrote prolifically on this site, who had died a short period before I first wrote on here. Never would I have guessed they were the same person.

Returning to your subject above, the ba, the ka, and the akh are ALL equally important when studying the process of death and the afterlife in Egyptology. The Internet is as usual full of misleading information, that has so often been reproduced on this site and elsewhere.

There are few true academic books that explain in detail the full meaning of these three elements, that really were the main force that held the faith together.

P.S. - The akh was a sort of secret spirit, a little like what present day Christians calls the Holy Spirit, though few such people today have no such idea of this so called spirit, even priests I find are some what confused.

P.P.S. - Once again, sorry I am very busy at this time, perhaps, one or two of our old members will look in. :wi .

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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by Aromagician »

I must say here that there is no evidence of a race called the Moriori in New Zealand. That was another island.
However there is a story about a race called the waitaha who were here.
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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by newcastle »

Aromagician wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:52 am
I must say here that there is no evidence of a race called the Moriori in New Zealand. That was another island.
However there is a story about a race called the waitaha who were here.
A-Four is confused and repeating the now debunked theory that the Moriori (indigenous natives of Chatham Islands) were historically predecessors of the Māori.

Firstly, the myth. This is how it goes. There were a pre-Māori people in New Zealand, called the Moriori. When Māori arrived in the country they set about obliterating these peaceful Moriori inhabitants until not a single Moriori remained alive.

This story is completely wrong. But it is astonishingly pervasive.

New Zealand was settled by polynesians around 1350 CE and are what are known as the Māori.

Around 1500 CE it’s thought that a wave of these early New Zealanders and some direct immigrants from Polynesia settled in the Chatham Islands and their distinct culture is referred to as Moriori.

You’re right in that there are also legends about a people known as the Waitaha preceding the Māori. Early immigrants it was said came from China ! But there’s no real evidence. Only stories passed down the generations.

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Re: The Black Madonna. Is it based on ISiS?

Post by Aromagician »

Gavin Menzies is very controversial. While I sunscribe to the theory that other travellers like the Chinese did visit New Zealand, as in the excellent book 1421, I do not believe they are the Waitaha.
Waitaha are said to have come from Hawaiki and may were said to have pale skin and red hair.
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