Converting to Islam

[Glyphdoctor]

Seeing as you aren't a Muslim convert, whether you think it is a rude question or not is irrelevant. The fact is that it is a question that is directed at converts and frequently offends converts. If you prefer to offend converts, then you are free to ask the question to any convert you meet in the future. But now that you know how it can rub them the wrong way, you might want to change how you converse with them in the future.

And no, I wouldn't tell you my favorite color. For all you know it might be one of my security questions for my online banking, now or in the future. Any questions like that are better left unanswered for a variety of reasons.

[Zooropa]

Seeing as you aren't a Muslim convert, whether you think it is a rude question or not is irrelevant. The fact is that it is a question that is directed at converts and frequently offends converts. If you prefer to offend converts, then you are free to ask the question to any convert you meet in the future. But now that you know how it can rub them the wrong way, you might want to change how you converse with them in the future.

And no, I wouldn't tell you my favorite color. For all you know it might be one of my security questions for my online banking, now or in the future. Any questions like that are better left unanswered for a variety of reasons.

Lol & lol!

Are you for real?

Stop being offended on other peoples behalf!

The links you provided are irrelevant unless they are responding to the question asked by ST.

And no it has not changed one iota how I address converts or anyone else on this issue.

The offence card in order to close down debate wont work with me (nor I will wager will it with ST).

At least now I can rule out blue as your favourite colour.

There are not enough characters for an online password.

It also rules out red & pink.

No one had better quote what their favourite hotel or eatery is either for the same reasons!

In fact im at loss as to how you reached over 6000 posts.

Think of all the potential security risks!

Oh, and I am not asking the question, I'm commenting on your reaction to it.

I must say, for someone who keeps asking people to re read posts, it appears that you should take some of your own advice!

Regards,

Z the safe cracker.

[Glyphdoctor]

You know what, I don't have discussions with people who treat a serious conversation like a 13 year old by laughing at those they don't agree with. I just don't have time for such immature behavior. Good night.

[Zooropa]

If you want to label me disagreeing with you and pointing out contradictions as immature then that's your right of course.

Good Night.

[Dusak]

Personally speaking, from what I have observed since living here and had not known that much about Islam before I came, I have to say that putting up the Islamic faith against Christianity, I think, overall, Islam is the winner. Why? Purely for one set of values against another to my eyes. I always found it distasteful when first of all small rural churches with little or no congregations were sold off to become private dwellings, night clubs, restaurants or community centers, which settled on the stomach a little better but giving very little thought to the attached graves. It is so easy for them to play the deconsecrated card concerning church land, forget the generations of the interned for profit that considered this, thier final resting place within the shadows of their church. Then of course land prices shot through the roof in the inner city regions. Churches were randomly demolished for the high price per metre for developments. And the congregations protested, but to no avail. That is not even going into the abuse topic which has already been well written about. I do not think that you would see many Mosques knocked down for new housing.

I also admire their family values, the coming together in times of need, to offer and give support without having to ask. Its an automatic gesture. Against the greed and selfishness of so called Christians in the UK. And no, I do not paint them all black, just the greater number. If a family member dies within the Muslim faith, others will travel miles to pay their respects and offer their assistance, most of the time with financial hardship to themselves. Your lucky in the UK if any turn up to say their goodbys, work and travel expenses always take up the greater part of considerations. I have been amazed and at times quite moved concerning the offers of help and assistance that I have received over the last three years from my Egyptian neighbours. Offered without price or expected rewards.

If I was ever to marry a Muslim woman, I would convert to Islam, not because I had to because otherwise I couldn't marry her, but to show the family respect and integrate myself into a new community. Some may call this a falsehood, others may say its for self gain. Opinions will never be the same no matter how long you debate them but I would never think to ask someone who had happily converted as to why. The only thing I find personally offensive is when people convert purely and simply to have a ''legally accepted'' sexual relationship.

[Mad Dilys]

Personally speaking, from what I have observed since living here and had not known that much about Islam before I came, I have to say that putting up the Islamic faith against Christianity, I think, overall, Islam is the winner. Why? Purely for one set of values against another to my eyes. I always found it distasteful when first of all small rural churches with little or no congregations were sold off to become private dwellings, night clubs, restaurants or community centers, which settled on the stomach a little better but giving very little thought to the attached graves. It is so easy for them to play the deconsecrated card concerning church land, forget the generations of the interned for profit that considered this, thier final resting place within the shadows of their church. Then of course land prices shot through the roof in the inner city regions. Churches were randomly demolished for the high price per metre for developments. And the congregations protested, but to no avail. That is not even going into the abuse topic which has already been well written about. I do not think that you would see many Mosques knocked down for new housing.

I also admire their family values, the coming together in times of need, to offer and give support without having to ask. Its an automatic gesture. Against the greed and selfishness of so called Christians in the UK. And no, I do not paint them all black, just the greater number. If a family member dies within the Muslim faith, others will travel miles to pay their respects and offer their assistance, most of the time with financial hardship to themselves. Your lucky in the UK if any turn up to say their goodbys, work and travel expenses always take up the greater part of considerations. I have been amazed and at times quite moved concerning the offers of help and assistance that I have received over the last three years from my Egyptian neighbours. Offered without price or expected rewards.

If I was ever to marry a Muslim woman, I would convert to Islam, not because I had to because otherwise I couldn't marry her, but to show the family respect and integrate myself into a new community. Some may call this a falsehood, others may say its for self gain. Opinions will never be the same no matter how long you debate them but I would never think to ask someone who had happily converted as to why. The only thing I find personally offensive is when people convert purely and simply to have a ''legally accepted'' sexual relationship.

Bravo Dusak

[LivinginLuxor]

But Mr D, aren't the behaviours that you describe more cultural than religious - they would probably behave that way whatever religion is prevalent at the time?

[Who2]

A brilliant idea, that was destined for all those Mecca bingo halls becoming mosques...obviously God's will.......

[A-Four]

When on Saturday 2nd November, I wrote information, as I see it with regards to the very early history of the Christian Church, this was for the benefit of a dear person down there in New Zealand, who I know takes such matters seriously, hence although many look in the History Section on this forum, though few comment, which is fair enough. However, when I request some one to make a comment twice, and then deliberately ignore this, I can only assume a such person is in love with a blind faith, that opens its door on Sunday morning, and slams it shut by the evening, until the following week.

Although I am neither Christian or Muslim, it is my clear understanding that, Islam is not so much a religion, it is a way of life.

It is of my opinion that the original writer here, has little or no knowledge of either faith, so should withdraw and study at least one, then perhaps question another, after this.

[Bearded Brian]

So would you convert to marry a muslim girl in the U.K., would you hope that she converts to your religion or would it make no difference? Would you let any offspring be brought up in another religion, insist they are brought up in your religion or let the children decide when they are 16 years old. My sister's children (she married a Sikh) where brought up in no religion -all received one of their names following the sikh religion but the 1st child was also baptized as a Roman Catholic. They are now in their 20s and 30s, only the middle child has 'found' religion - as a sikh but I think this has more to do with finding a wife and being able to 'play' the religious card when needed

[Dusak]

But Mr D, aren't the behaviours that you describe more cultural than religious - they would probably behave that way whatever religion is prevalent at the time?

Yes Stan, they are, to my mind , deeply embedded with their culture, but that, again to my mind, is due to their religious faith in Islam and for all it stands for. The two run parallel with each other. We all quote ''its Allah's will'' in regards to a healthy or prosperous life or even death. But these people genuinely believe it is so. And that's the problem with the Western society's now, they don't believe, their strengths lie in the word expect. Their attitudes are all self, sod you mate I'm first in the queue.

So would you convert to marry a muslim girl in the U.K., would you hope that she converts to your religion or would it make no difference? Would you let any offspring be brought up in another religion, insist they are brought up in your religion or let the children decide when they are 16 years old. My sister's children (she married a Sikh) where brought up in no religion -all received one of their names following the sikh religion but the 1st child was also baptized as a Roman Catholic. They are now in their 20s and 30s, only the middle child has 'found' religion - as a sikh but I think this has more to do with finding a wife and being able to 'play' the religious card when needed

If I was contemplating marrying a Muslim girl, I would realize that her faith in her religion would be far stronger than mine. Muslims are born into their religions, we Westerners are just labeled with whatever their parents are, or are not. So I would gladly convert to please her, her family and friends. If you want to spend the rest of your life with a person that all your feelings and thoughts tell you that you love that person more than life itself, then that is the most priceless gift that you can give freely and willingly. If I converted, yes I would be accepted, but never in my lifetime would I ever be regarded as a 'true' Muslim, that only comes with birthright.

My first wife was Catholic, I C of E. The parish priest, a family friend of my wife's family that was to conduct the ceremony, asked me would I like to convert to Catholicism. I declined, saying that I had little interest in religion. He accepted this, but asked would I consent to any children born attend a Catholic school. I replied yes, as long as he respected their decision if they wanted to decline. All was well. Now, in our more modern times and free thought more accepted as the norm, I think very few mixed marriages are facing the problems of later years, parental refusal on religious grounds, which is good, because no one should have the power or authority to refuse you a happy and hopefully, contented life with the person you love.

[timetraveller]

So are you saying if you are a Catholic convert then you are more committed to Catholicism than someone born with Catholic parents and if you are a Muslim convert you must be faking it?

As far as I am concerned, a Catholic is a Catholic and a Muslim is a Muslim, doesn't matter how they reached their current state, they are what they are. And in the end, who cares what you think? Isn't it God's judgment that matters?

And by the same token, who cares what you think either?

[timetraveller]

When on Saturday 2nd November, I wrote information, as I see it with regards to the very early history of the Christian Church, this was for the benefit of a dear person down there in New Zealand, who I know takes such matters seriously, hence although many look in the History Section on this forum, though few comment, which is fair enough. However, when I request some one to make a comment twice, and then deliberately ignore this, I can only assume a such person is in love with a blind faith, that opens its door on Sunday morning, and slams it shut by the evening, until the following week.

Although I am neither Christian or Muslim, it is my clear understanding that, Islam is not so much a religion, it is a way of life.

It is of my opinion that the original writer here, has little or no knowledge of either faith, so should withdraw and study at least one, then perhaps question another, after this.

Why should she need to have any in depth knowledge of either faith in order to show an interest in the subject? Isn't that how we all learn about issues? Should someone who knows nothing about Politics similarly avoid asking questions about it and remain in ignorance? To expect, nay, demand this would seem a bit pompous of you.

Moreover, I would question whether you have sufficient basis for making such a claim in the first place. Due to her heritage it is quite possible that ST knows more about Catholicism than you do.

If ST did not respond to your post she probably had her reasons. Maybe she didn't think you were raising a significant point, or perhaps she didn't fully understand the point you were making. In my experience people, including myself, sometimes do have trouble making sense of your posts. Because they are often (deliberately I expect) quite obscure or ambiguous.

And incidentally, to all people of faith their religion is a 'way of life', not just Muslims. It's the same for Buddhists, Hindu's, Jews and devout Christians. Anybody who has travelled extensively and had experience of these communities will be aware of that. Or anybody who reads about or watches such things on TV for that matter.

[A-Four]

So would you convert to marry a muslim girl in the U.K., would you hope that she converts to your religion or would it make no difference? Would you let any offspring be brought up in another religion, insist they are brought up in your religion or let the children decide when they are 16 years old. My sister's children (she married a Sikh) where brought up in no religion -all received one of their names following the sikh religion but the 1st child was also baptized as a Roman Catholic. They are now in their 20s and 30s, only the middle child has 'found' religion - as a sikh but I think this has more to do with finding a wife and being able to 'play' the religious card when needed

This is a very good statement here from Bearded Brian, for a number of reasons, least of all, the fact that the speed of various religions have entered Britain and the effect on the indigenous society in the past 50 years. However when a change in religious thinking is required, for perhaps marriage, or for ones future children, it must be for the individual themselves, and themselves ALONE to ascertain their true faith, if any at all.

In the Christian faith, to chrisom or baptise some one into the faith is done at the earliest opportunity. This was first brought after around 180 A.D. by Irenaeus, one of the early Church fathers. There is evidence to suspect, that prior to this time, the very first earliest Christians were of the Jewish faith, and that as then, as now, all Jews are circumcised before the eighth day from birth. Obviously this did not bode well with adults of the new Roman Church, who looked for a less painful method of induction.

If you look at Mark 16 v16, and the teachings of Jesus, you will see that first, you MUST believe in the faith, then you are baptised into it. That would be the same teaching today that I would recommend to anyone entering a new faith. I have often come across these so called 'born again' people, who have not a clue about their new faith, yet are prepared to instruct a priest, or Imam in how thing should be run.

[Ruby Slippers]

At the end of the day anyone can say they are any religion, but unless they truly believe and live by the rules of that religion, it doesn't mean diddly squat! I don't personally believe in anything but I respect and sometimes admire those that do. If I am honest, there are times when I envy those that do have a faith because it gives them comfort when they need it. Having said that, I am intensely interested in religions in general, and tend to ask questions which help me to know the person better. This is not intended to pry or insult, and I would hope it wouldn't be taken in that way. I am genuinely interested. The funniest thing is that when I am asked in an official capacity to name my religion, I always say C of E! Why on earth I don't say agnostic or atheist, I have no idea. I was brought up and christened as C of E and my husband as a Catholic. Because neither of us believe, our sons were brought up without a religion. We decided to leave them to decide for themselves whether they believed or not, although I insisted they had religious instruction at school, to help them in their choice. My youngest son decided in adulthood that he did believe and was baptized. I respect his decision, and certainly wouldn't dream of ridiculing him or insulting his choice. I suppose what I am trying to say in a roundabout way is, not all questions about your particular religion are intended to insult. They can be a prelude to friendliness too!

[Dusak]

I've always believed in myself, concerning all matters relating to my life. There is only one person in existence that has the real power to define my life and the roads that I travel, and that is me. I say yes or no. If I make the wrong decision, then that's just life. It is all to easy to have someone else to blame for your falls from grace, be it earth based or heavenly.

[HEPZIBAH]

A brilliant idea, that was destined for all those Mecca bingo halls becoming mosques...obviously God's will.......

Not all of them though! Some of those Mecca Bingo Halls became Christian Churches too, along with failing sports centers and warehouses - that became churches and community resource centers.

Guess that was God's will too!

[Glyphdoctor]

If I was ever to marry a Muslim woman, I would convert to Islam, not because I had to because otherwise I couldn't marry her, but to show the family respect and integrate myself into a new community. Some may call this a falsehood, others may say its for self gain.

But this was 14 months ago, not more than 4 years ago.

I don't really care what someone's religion is, but making up stories for attention is not a really admirable trait.

And somewhere, maybe everywhere, stories are being made up.

[LovelyLadyLux]

During my life it has been my experience that when somebody converts to a new religion or just converted as a new convert they're usually very enthusiastic about their conversion and often enmesh themselves in absolutely every aspect of the religion. They want to actively live their faith and do so with vim and vigor.

[Who2]

So, I see we have reverted to 'if your a christian and want a sh*g you have to become a muslim personally I think it's a load of old bo***cks, but if that's what it takes then I'm a Muslim what a load of old bo***cks this religion s*it is I'm a bahi, I'm a hindu, a jew, who gives a flying fu** except the 'nutters who are as ignorant about god as sheep…..
Enthusiasm about religion ? you jest I'm far more enthusiastic about a s**g!