One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clashes

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One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clashes

Post by DJKeefy »

One child killed, dozens injured in clashes between Morsi supporters and opponents.

Egyptian security forces fired teargas to disperse clashes between supporters and opponents of deposed president Mohamed Morsi in Giza, Alexandria and Suez.

One child was killed and dozens injured during limited clashes on Friday afternoon between supporters and opponents of deposed president Mohamed Morsi in Cairo, Alexandria and Suez following protests called by the pro-Morsi National Coalition in Support of Legitimacy.

The working class district of Omraniya in Giza witnessed violent clashes between pro-Morsi protesters and their opponents. According to Al-Ahram's Arabic news website, the protesters blocked the streets in the area using torched tires. Security forces dispersed the clashes with teargas.

The head of Egypt’s Ambulance Authority Ahmed Al-Ansary announced in a statement that a 12-year-old child, whose identity remains unknown, has been killed in the Giza clashes in addition to six injured.

Meanwhile, in the port city of Suez, clashes also erupted between Morsi supporters and their opponents and between them and security forces near the Suez security directorate.

The security forces also used teargas to disperse the pro-Morsi protesters. According to health ministry officials in the city, no less than four citizens were injured in the clashes, including one firearm headshot currently in critical condition.

Security forces accused the pro-Morsi supporters of throwing fireworks at the Central Security Forces (CSF) conscripts.

Earlier in Alexandria’s Sidi Bishr district, a pro-Morsi rally engaged in clashes with opponents from the area. Security forces also used teargas to disperse the crowd, arresting a number of Morsi supporters.

Thousands of Morsi supporters organised protests on Friday in several provinces across Egypt under the name "Egypt’s women are a red line" to object the recent arrests of women protesting in solidarity with ousted president Mohamed Morsi.

Head of Egypt’s Ambulance Authority Ahmed Al-Ansary had also announced that three more were injured in the Sharqiya governorate in front of El-Fatah Mosque, where protests were being held, and were transferred to the hospital. One injury was also reported in the Beheira governorate.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/85945.aspx


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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Ridiculous that anybody would take their child (baby through teen) to a protest and they just had to know it would probably erupt. But seems to be the Egyptian way that the kids go with the parent......ridiculous to expose your child to this......
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Hafiz »

Who said that the 'child' was taken to a demonstration. People not directly involved in demonstrations get killed in the third world (crossfire?) and don't need their parents to lead them into danger.

I think there is an assumption here that certain types of Egyptians take their children to demonstrations and that these people are not Sisi supporters - but I could be wrong.

As usual its the old pot/cast the first stone problem. If my memory serves me correct UK women and their children were prominent in the anti-nuclear demonstrations of the late 70's and early 80's and that the women of Greeham Common clashed with police whilst accompanied by their children. There are hours of video to confirm this. No need to get high and mighty about some Egyptian news article which doesn't even confirm that a parent took a child to a demonstration.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Glyphdoctor »

There have been plenty of street battles between protesters and the police over the last few years where the average age of the protesters was about 12! Hafiz is right. A 12 year old boy doesn't get taken by his parents anywhere, he goes there himself.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

@ Glyph - quite agreed many of the kids go anywhere they want on their own
Who said that the 'child' was taken to a demonstration. People not directly involved in demonstrations get killed in the third world (crossfire?) and don't need their parents to lead them into danger.
Nobody SAID the child was taken BUT many Egyptian people DO take their children with them anywhere and everywhere. They hang them off motorcycles whilst speeding down the roads, they carry them about at all hours and yeah they DO take them to protests and other dangerous situations the we would never ever expose our children to.

BTW I'm also not posing my statement on what was 30 yrs or longer ago. What women did in the US/EU/Oz or anywhere else years ago is irrelevant. I'm talking about NOW and how children in Egypt are exposed to dangerous situations NOW. Didn't way the age of the child but "child" could be from 3yrs old up to teenage. Could have been a 12 yr old boy child who took himself or it could have been a 3yr old brought by a father too.

My point is that Egyptian children are exposed to many more adult and dangerous situations than children here.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Dusak »

On the news this morning they where interviewing the family. Witness state that the child had a gun pointed at him [his chest] by an MB supporter and shot at point blank range through the heart. The child, according to his mother, was not ''at'' the protest, but got trapped within the surging crowds. A sad loss of what apparently was a very well liked and well behaved boy from the local community.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

That is indeed tragic and moreover murder. Hope it is being seen as such and all appropriate investigative measures being taken to catch the criminal who committed this heinous act.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Dusak »

LovelyLadyLux wrote:That is indeed tragic and moreover murder. Hope it is being seen as such and all appropriate investigative measures being taken to catch the criminal who committed this heinous act.
If it was, as stated, an MB member, I think that they will have problems identifying him. ''Be on the lookout for a male with long beard, angry look about him with a yellow hand pasted on his person in possession of a weapon.''
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

@ D - yup exactly. A misguided anonymous miscreant child murderer. Imagine the life this person had/has to be able to kill a child in this manner. Terribly tragic all 'round.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Brian Yare »

DJKeefy wrote:Egyptian security forces fired teargas to disperse clashes between supporters and opponents of deposed president Mohamed Morsi in Giza, Alexandria and Suez.
... and Alex and Suez have 'gone green' on the FCO map!
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Hafiz »

Dusak, where did you source the claims that a MB member shot a child at point blank range on the edge of a demonstration.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Dusak »

Hafiz wrote:Dusak, where did you source the claims that a MB member shot a child at point blank range on the edge of a demonstration.
It was a statement issued by a family member, the mother I think, during an interview. She was stating what she had been told by some one that was there at the time of the shooting. It may have been on Press TV or Aljazeera. The only problem I have remembering which station it was is that in the mornings I skip from news channel to news channel if there is not much of interest on.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Dusak »

Hafiz wrote:Dusak, where did you source the claims that a MB member shot a child at point blank range on the edge of a demonstration.
It was a statement issued by a family member, the mother I think, during an interview. She was stating what she had been told by some one that was there at the time of the shooting. It may have been on Press TV or Aljazeera. The only problem I have remembering which station it was is that in the mornings I skip from news channel to news channel if there is not much of interest on.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Hafiz »

Dusak the only independent report I can find on this is from Reuters. Their eye witness report from the journalist on the ground states a bullet to the neck but nothing about point blank and nothing about the Brotherhood which might be relevant because the reporter was with the mother at the time or shortly after death. She did not make an accusation. As far as knowing the killer was a brotherhood member, all types of trouble makers join demonstrations in the West and probably in Egypt.

Suspiciously the al Ahram report is 8 November but the identical and eye witness report from Reuters is 4 months earlier on 14 August. The Reuters report makes clear that he died on or around 14in August. The 8 November al Ahram report state he was killed the same day as publication. Same day publication of a news story which at least required talking to the mother and the witnesses must have meant that this journalist was about the hardest working Egyptian on 8 November. If however he died around 14 August and it was not reported in Egypt at that time there may have been a reason for this which could be the need to warehouse it so that there would be a ready supply in the future of horror stories about the opponents of the Government for subsequent slow news day. Dolling out these horrors on a drip feed basis also works to change public opinion and maintain outrage and just plain rage. This his is all a speculation but if I were the Minister of Information that is what I would do.

Please excuse my intensive posts but I am suspicious of most reporting in Egypt. Particularly reporting of government opponents. I also find difficult to believe an indiscriminate killing of a child at point blank range with no obvious motive. What is easier to understand is a press fabrication to conceal an earlier death at the very time time of known indiscriminate security forces fire into crowds. On 8 November, when there were no known security forces firing against protestors, it was a great opportunity to find another candidate for the murder without fear of allegations that the police or army did it. Move the murder in time to remove the real suspect from the scene. All of this may be too conspiratorial and its all speculation or amateur Agatha Christie in drag. In any event I suspect we will never know who or why.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Dusak »

I can only comment of what the family members stated on the TV to whoever the reporter was. Its so long ago now that I can not remember if it was translated to English verbally or it was in sub-title form. Whatever the case, if you have just had your child delivered to you dead and whatever side you support, you are going to blame the opponents. That's human nature especially when emotions are at an elevated level. People always exaggerate the circumstances if they have witnessed such a thing as this. They are hyped up, and so are their levels of reasoning and input of what they actually saw, to what they think they saw. That's the way I look at it anyways.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Hafiz »

Dusak: Thank you. Don't you think odd the 4 months between both stories with both claiming (one the most reliable source for news in the world and relying on their eye-witness reporter) that the child died on the day of filing their differing reports?

Don't the inconsistencies make you doubt this report from within Egypt? Don't you doubt most of all the media in Egypt?

Do many of Egyptians you know believe the news component of the media? Maybe many do.I would be interested to know.

In my experience the Egyptian middle classes are sometimes judicious or skeptical but others are credulous and therefore easily inflamed by media and rumor, particularly bloody stories. If this is true it makes easy the manipulation of community mood using bloody stories and few are as chilling than the killing of a child.

In its western form, remember those English 1st WW posters of the Hun rearing up with baby skewered on his lance (Belgium). I think there was a similar one involving raping of nuns which I don't understand given its viewing audience would have been largely Protestant. Maybe the Italians and Irish had to be egged on?

My general point, without doubting the boy's death, is that there is nothing new in manipulation by the media in times of crisis using extreme and bloodthirsty stories about children and other vulnerable groups. My point is also that, generally (and possibly without exception), the media in Egypt is trash. This view is shared by Egyptians with 80% reporting in 2013 that the media is the most corrupt institution in Egypt. Unbelievably it is regarded as more corrupt than the execrable police and the looting business classes. It takes real effort to be regarded as more corrupt than the police.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Glyphdoctor »

I don't think most expats, with a few exceptions, watch the same media that Egyptians are watching so I am not sure they understand really what the media is like here, that is with the exception of NileTV. But if you just listen to the interviews on NileTV while reading the ticker you can catch an inkling that something is not right.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Dusak »

I agree with what you say Hafiz. I consider myself intelligent enough to see rubbish news when it hits the screens over here, and the vast majority defies logic most of the time. It is usually politically motivated, sensationalized to create the biggest point score of the day or just plain BS. But if you are posting, as I did at the beginning, all you have to go on is what you have seen on the screen and what you have heard the people state. I freely admit that I have no interest in doing extensive research to discover what is actually the truth. For this I, and probably others as well, rely on the likes of you and GD to put the record straight, for which I am grateful for as I do like to finely get to know the truth.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Glyphdoctor »

It's just not the Egyptian media that is manipulated. Western media is almost as bad. So much of what passes as news is just propaganda put forth by official, and unofficial sources with shady funding, some of it probably deriving from secret official sources to begin with. Often when you hear some "expert" on TV or quoted in the papers they have been placed there by a PR firm or government agency with hidden intentions. Many incidents of various kinds are concocted in order to create a situation that needs to be dealt with that can also generate a lot of media coverage. Trust no one and google their name after you hear them on TV if you think they might have an agenda and often you will find out that they are just part of some bigger campaign to make you believe something that they want you to believe.
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Re: One child killed, dozens injured in pro/anti Morsi clash

Post by Hafiz »

Glyphdoctor, all you say is true but there is a big difference between the West and countries controlled by authoritarian governments who own a lot of the media. That big difference, as I'm sure you know but fail to mention, is media diversity with one newspaper/TV trying to out do the other. In a competitive market you won't survive if you are offering the same as the other guy.

The other big difference is that the opposition does not have free access to the media in Egypt and therefore an outlet for its different narrative and holding the government to account.

Nothing wrong with press releases in the media as long as you publish the others who disagree with the first and disclose the source. I don't completely believe the last comment.

You may object to the western media but there are gems. Most are well known but National Public Radio of the US is one many may not know. It offers a world wide service with incredible detail from correspondents on the ground. I see no gems in China, Russia, most of Africa and the authoritarian parts of South America etc.

Without a free and skeptical media I don't think you can have a democracy. Also you won't get a free media without a democracy (maybe). There is no free (as distinguished from a competent) media in Egypt. You fill in the rest.

Its an aside and romanticizes the past, but al Ahram under its pre 1952 Lebanese-Egyptian ownership was read all over the middle east and north africa and regarded as authoritative. Not bad under the decadent monarchy. After Nasser nationalized it, without compensation, it entered the long and degrading trip to its present status. The 'encouraged expulsion' of much of the (non-ethnic Egyptian) educated middle and upper class readership didn't help much. You can't have a quality newspaper without quality readers and the readers of the 1950's and 60's seemed satisfied with socialist propaganda. In the 50's Cairo was the publishing center of the region. Lots of things appear to have gone backwards since 1952.
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