Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

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Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Bullet Magnet » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:07 pm

B.M as you all know, is not exactly a lover of man made predatory desert religions, and I have always kept a close eye on the Catholic Church..

As A kid, I read many of Nostradamus's predictions, and according to Michelle de Notre Dame, Pope Benedict XVI was to be the LAST pope...


I think Nostradamus was correct, not literally of course, as the Vatican still stands and a new pope resides in there...
he was elected on 13-3-2013...

However, I started hearing some good things about this new Pope Francis a while ago,... I took an interest...
Today, I thought I would catch up with the Catholic Church and see how Pope Francis is getting along...
http://distractify.com/people/reasons-w ... -the-year/

I'll stand behind a bloke like him... This guy just may be able to relay J.C's messages correctly to the masses.. By example...

2013 was the year of change, looks to me to be heading in the right direction... Even us Brits managed to stop "Vague Hague" and "CaMoron" going to war with Syria earlier this year..

As Big Bob, and many other prophets said.. "The Times They are a Changing",
it could have been a lot worse.. But you would have known all about that by now... :cool:

Don't Look Back, a New day is dawning...


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That the twisting kaleidoscope moves us all in turn.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Who2 » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:11 pm

Well he has a great weight upon his shoulders, plus he has to fight the 'dark forces, let's see if he can out do his predecessors, for too many of them succumbed no matter 'how many saints they endorsed….. 'Hope for us all in 2014, 'inshaala!…… :cool:
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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:19 pm

Not Catholic and not particularly religious but Pope Francis seems to have a bent to be his own man. Far as I can from the News bits coming out that have caught my attention he is a Jesuit which is a branch favouring the educational and intellectual. He hasn't been seen to be wearing all the robes and traipsing of his power position and hasn't exactly been condoning the other higher ups doing this.

Seems to me he is kinda wanting to lead by example and on becoming Pope symbolically did a washing of the feet of the poor and 'horrors' I believe this included a woman, muslim and poor guys (memory fades and I didn't exactly commit this to memory either but he did something like that that broke with tradition), carried his own luggage, paid for his own hotel and drove himself wherever it was he wanted to go. Celebrated his birthday by having brekkie with a couple of street people.

Pope Francis seems to be a different type of man. I've found all the tidbits coming out about him interesting.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Hafiz » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:16 pm

He's a man for all seasons and Esquire magazine has awarded him best dressed man in the world for 2013. Now that's an odd one except he might have hit the spot with a lot of people who wouldn't normally pay much attention. Maybe even fashionist's have a soul.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Zooropa » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:19 pm

Bullet, "standing behind him" may be safer than in front of him.

I will call him a good guy if he does the following:


1. Names and gives up all the priests that have sexually abused children that the Catholic church hides and protects.

2. Instructs his wicked, propaganda machine to stop telling Africans and others that condoms cause Aids

3. Stops the Catholic Church's openly homophobic agenda against gay people and orders that they should no longer be referred to as "disordered people"

4. Stops pontificating to the rest of us about how we should live our lives and that we should give more to charity.

5. Releases some of the multi millions it has, especially the amounts it collected from dictators and crooks and makes sure every single African has access to condoms and other forms of birth control.

If he does all that then il call him a good guy, if he does not then hes just like the rest of his predescessor's,


head of a corrupt, evil organisation.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Dusak » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:18 pm

Hafiz wrote:He's a man for all seasons and Esquire magazine has awarded him best dressed man in the world for 2013. Now that's an odd one except he might have hit the spot with a lot of people who wouldn't normally pay much attention. Maybe even fashionist's have a soul.
That could cause a problem on the worlds streets as usually people like to copy the best dressed person by adopting their style. Next year could see a million Popes wandering the streets... :tk Pope Dusak...
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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Hafiz » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:56 am

Zoopra - you need to follow the press on the Pope

Benedict did an about face and its now compulsory to pass allegations onto the police. More changes have been flagged.

Francis has already made at least 1 public statement saying that focus on condoms misses the point. In this any other matters his point gives priority to personal conscience rather than clerical power to decide on all things moral.

He has already made one comment on gay people which again gives priority to conscience and, again, states that the Church spends too much time on the private parts.

Charity begins at home and he lives simply in a single room in a religious hostel, eats communally has associated himself with young criminals, has preached against the mafia and associated himself with anti mafia nuns and priests, denounced the Italian government treatment of asylum seekers, demanded immediate reform of the Vatican bank That seems a fair bit to be going on with. As far as the paintings are concerned, the movable ones could be sold but would need to be sold over decades and would end up dispersed over the world in public and private collections. Maybe that would be good thing, I don't know. In the meanwhile the Vatican distributes hundreds of millions of dollars to the poor each year. Does the Church of England, the Presbyterian Church or the Lutheran Church do that? Do the Hindus. In my experience they give principally to their own flocks.

He pontificates that all of us should give more to charity? Well isn't that right?

Amounts collected from dictators? You know more than I.

The church is the largest organization in the world and calls for immediate and far reaching change ignore the complexity of change on this scale and the resistance to change by the many reactionary bishops and cardinals appointed by his predecessors. His general approach of reducing the power of clerics and emphasizing the role of laity will be hard to pull of for a Pope nearing 80.

A point that you might like. When the first sexual scandals started to break in the US several decades ago, John Paul's response was that they were a product of US decadence and would not repeated in Europe. As a result little was done and the US bishops were left to deal with it. How wrong he was and how dangerous it is to make him a saint in April.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Bullet Magnet » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:12 am

MESSAGE OF POPE FRANCIS
FOR THE 48TH WORLD COMMUNICATIONS DAY

Communication at the Service of an Authentic Culture of Encounter



Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Today we are living in a world which is growing ever “smaller” and where, as a result, it would seem to be easier for all of us to be neighbours. Developments in travel and communications technology are bringing us closer together and making us more connected, even as globalization makes us increasingly interdependent. Nonetheless, divisions, which are sometimes quite deep, continue to exist within our human family. On the global level we see a scandalous gap between the opulence of the wealthy and the utter destitution of the poor. Often we need only walk the streets of a city to see the contrast between people living on the street and the brilliant lights of the store windows. We have become so accustomed to these things that they no longer unsettle us. Our world suffers from many forms of exclusion, marginalization and poverty, to say nothing of conflicts born of a combination of economic, political, ideological, and, sadly, even religious motives.

In a world like this, media can help us to feel closer to one another, creating a sense of the unity of the human family which can in turn inspire solidarity and serious efforts to ensure a more dignified life for all. Good communication helps us to grow closer, to know one another better, and ultimately, to grow in unity. The walls which divide us can be broken down only if we are prepared to listen and learn from one another. We need to resolve our differences through forms of dialogue which help us grow in understanding and mutual respect. A culture of encounter demands that we be ready not only to give, but also to receive. Media can help us greatly in this, especially nowadays, when the networks of human communication have made unprecedented advances. The internet, in particular, offers immense possibilities for encounter and solidarity. This is something truly good, a gift from God.

This is not to say that certain problems do not exist. The speed with which information is communicated exceeds our capacity for reflection and judgement, and this does not make for more balanced and proper forms of self-expression. The variety of opinions being aired can be seen as helpful, but it also enables people to barricade themselves behind sources of information which only confirm their own wishes and ideas, or political and economic interests. The world of communications can help us either to expand our knowledge or to lose our bearings. The desire for digital connectivity can have the effect of isolating us from our neighbours, from those closest to us. We should not overlook the fact that those who for whatever reason lack access to social media run the risk of being left behind.

While these drawbacks are real, they do not justify rejecting social media; rather, they remind us that communication is ultimately a human rather than technological achievement. What is it, then, that helps us, in the digital environment, to grow in humanity and mutual understanding? We need, for example, to recover a certain sense of deliberateness and calm. This calls for time and the ability to be silent and to listen. We need also to be patient if we want to understand those who are different from us. People only express themselves fully when they are not merely tolerated, but know that they are truly accepted. If we are genuinely attentive in listening to others, we will learn to look at the world with different eyes and come to appreciate the richness of human experience as manifested in different cultures and traditions. We will also learn to appreciate more fully the important values inspired by Christianity, such as the vision of the human person, the nature of marriage and the family, the proper distinction between the religious and political spheres, the principles of solidarity and subsidiarity, and many others.

How, then, can communication be at the service of an authentic culture of encounter? What does it mean for us, as disciples of the Lord, to encounter others in the light of the Gospel? In spite of our own limitations and sinfulness, how do we draw truly close to one another? These questions are summed up in what a scribe – a communicator – once asked Jesus: “And who is my neighbour?” (Lk 10:29). This question can help us to see communication in terms of “neighbourliness”. We might paraphrase the question in this way: How can we be “neighbourly” in our use of the communications media and in the new environment created by digital technology? I find an answer in the parable of the Good Samaritan, which is also a parable about communication. Those who communicate, in effect, become neighbours. The Good Samaritan not only draws nearer to the man he finds half dead on the side of the road; he takes responsibility for him. Jesus shifts our understanding: it is not just about seeing the other as someone like myself, but of the ability to make myself like the other. Communication is really about realizing that we are all human beings, children of God. I like seeing this power of communication as “neighbourliness”.

Whenever communication is primarily aimed at promoting consumption or manipulating others, we are dealing with a form of violent aggression like that suffered by the man in the parable, who was beaten by robbers and left abandoned on the road. The Levite and the priest do not regard him as a neighbour, but as a stranger to be kept at a distance. In those days, it was rules of ritual purity which conditioned their response. Nowadays there is a danger that certain media so condition our responses that we fail to see our real neighbour.

It is not enough to be passersby on the digital highways, simply “connected”; connections need to grow into true encounters. We cannot live apart, closed in on ourselves. We need to love and to be loved. We need tenderness. Media strategies do not ensure beauty, goodness and truth in communication. The world of media also has to be concerned with humanity, it too is called to show tenderness. The digital world can be an environment rich in humanity; a network not of wires but of people. The impartiality of media is merely an appearance; only those who go out of themselves in their communication can become a true point of reference for others. Personal engagement is the basis of the trustworthiness of a communicator. Christian witness, thanks to the internet, can thereby reach the peripheries of human existence.

As I have frequently observed, if a choice has to be made between a bruised Church which goes out to the streets and a Church suffering from self-absorption, I certainly prefer the first. Those “streets” are the world where people live and where they can be reached, both effectively and affectively. The digital highway is one of them, a street teeming with people who are often hurting, men and women looking for salvation or hope. By means of the internet, the Christian message can reach “to the ends of the earth” (Acts 1:8). Keeping the doors of our churches open also means keeping them open in the digital environment so that people, whatever their situation in life, can enter, and so that the Gospel can go out to reach everyone. We are called to show that the Church is the home of all. Are we capable of communicating the image of such a Church? Communication is a means of expressing the missionary vocation of the entire Church; today the social networks are one way to experience this call to discover the beauty of faith, the beauty of encountering Christ. In the area of communications too, we need a Church capable of bringing warmth and of stirring hearts.

Effective Christian witness is not about bombarding people with religious messages, but about our willingness to be available to others “by patiently and respectfully engaging their questions and their doubts as they advance in their search for the truth and the meaning of human existence” (BENEDICT XVI, Message for the 47th World Communications Day, 2013). We need but recall the story of the disciples on the way to Emmaus. We have to be able to dialogue with the men and women of today, to understand their expectations, doubts and hopes, and to bring them the Gospel, Jesus Christ himself, God incarnate, who died and rose to free us from sin and death. We are challenged to be people of depth, attentive to what is happening around us and spiritually alert. To dialogue means to believe that the “other” has something worthwhile to say, and to entertain his or her point of view and perspective. Engaging in dialogue does not mean renouncing our own ideas and traditions, but the claim that they alone are valid or absolute.

May the image of the Good Samaritan who tended to the wounds of the injured man by pouring oil and wine over them be our inspiration. Let our communication be a balm which relieves pain and a fine wine which gladdens hearts. May the light we bring to others not be the result of cosmetics or special effects, but rather of our being loving and merciful “neighbours” to those wounded and left on the side of the road. Let us boldly become citizens of the digital world. The Church needs to be concerned for, and present in, the world of communication, in order to dialogue with people today and to help them encounter Christ. She needs to be a Church at the side of others, capable of accompanying everyone along the way. The revolution taking place in communications media and in information technologies represents a great and thrilling challenge; may we respond to that challenge with fresh energy and imagination as we seek to share with others the beauty of God.

From the Vatican, 24 January 2014, the Memorial of Saint Francis de Sales.



FRANCIS

© Copyright - Libreria Editrice Vaticana

(not a big fan of copyrights, it defeats the whole purpose of our existence... so I nicked it...)
There's a time for everyone, if they only learn
That the twisting kaleidoscope moves us all in turn.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Scottishtourist » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:57 pm

I personally think that he is the best thing to "hit"the Catholic church in a very long time.

I am a very "simple"Catholic.I follow my faith,go to Mass,try to live a good life,and hopefully practice tolerance and acceptance of everyone else.
I do not "study"my faith.I accept and enjoy it,but am by no means a "bible thumper."

First thing that struck me about him was the name he chose,Francis.
It's progressive,modern and in my own case a "family"name.Lithuanian grandpa was "Pranas (equivalent)as is my last remaining uncle and it was also my late brother's name.
He appears very approachable,sensible,tactile and humble.

That's enough for me to be going on with.Time will tell if he will revolutionize the Catholic Church.But I reckon he's made a pretty good start.

I always think that when people start "digging"about a faith that they don't practice,they are merely looking for faults and problems.They show little regard and respect for the ones among us who DO accept and practice and are in effect much more the "essence"of the faith and it's teachings.

I've been slated on forum for asking certain things about Islam.My intention was never to offend anyone,I was asking out of interest and to be educated.I generally find that followers of one religion are keen to learn about others,whereas followers of none are more keen to criticize and condemn all.

I read somewhere that when he was presented with the elaborate Papal robes of office his reply was "put them away...the party's over."

A "Good Guy"...let's hope so,we deserve one!

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Zooropa » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:23 pm

Hafiz wrote:Zoopra - you need to follow the press on the Pope

Benedict did an about face and its now compulsory to pass allegations onto the police. More changes have been flagged.

Francis has already made at least 1 public statement saying that focus on condoms misses the point. In this any other matters his point gives priority to personal conscience rather than clerical power to decide on all things moral.

He has already made one comment on gay people which again gives priority to conscience and, again, states that the Church spends too much time on the private parts.

Charity begins at home and he lives simply in a single room in a religious hostel, eats communally has associated himself with young criminals, has preached against the mafia and associated himself with anti mafia nuns and priests, denounced the Italian government treatment of asylum seekers, demanded immediate reform of the Vatican bank That seems a fair bit to be going on with. As far as the paintings are concerned, the movable ones could be sold but would need to be sold over decades and would end up dispersed over the world in public and private collections. Maybe that would be good thing, I don't know. In the meanwhile the Vatican distributes hundreds of millions of dollars to the poor each year. Does the Church of England, the Presbyterian Church or the Lutheran Church do that? Do the Hindus. In my experience they give principally to their own flocks.

He pontificates that all of us should give more to charity? Well isn't that right?

Amounts collected from dictators? You know more than I.

The church is the largest organization in the world and calls for immediate and far reaching change ignore the complexity of change on this scale and the resistance to change by the many reactionary bishops and cardinals appointed by his predecessors. His general approach of reducing the power of clerics and emphasizing the role of laity will be hard to pull of for a Pope nearing 80.

A point that you might like. When the first sexual scandals started to break in the US several decades ago, John Paul's response was that they were a product of US decadence and would not repeated in Europe. As a result little was done and the US bishops were left to deal with it. How wrong he was and how dangerous it is to make him a saint in April.
An interesting post Hafiz, however, in my opinion it fails because it tries to defend the Catholic church which is indefensible.

Let me respond to some of your points:

Benedict did an about face and its now compulsory to pass allegations onto the police. More changes have been flagged.


Im glad to hear it - does it include the turning over of members who are alleged to be protected behind Vatican walls?

If so its a step in the right direction.

Francis has already made at least 1 public statement saying that focus on condoms misses the point. In this any other matters his point gives priority to personal conscience rather than clerical power to decide on all things moral.


Waffle which says everything and nothing that any prevaricating politician would have been proud of.

The point that is being missed is that poor uneducated people are being told that condoms cause Aids - they don't they help prevent it, id prefer a clear unequivocal statement retracting that message and confirming that condoms prevent Aids.

Why cant he even just say that they disapprove of condom use but concede they help prevent terrible diseases?

He has already made one comment on gay people which again gives priority to conscience and, again, states that the Church spends too much time on the private parts

As per the above - a meaningless political side step not condemning the church's discrimination and labelling of Gay people as disordered people and no clear edict that this practice must stop.

As for personal conscience - what has that got to do with it?

Your not allowed to have personal conscience - what is morally right and wrong its dictated to you by way of doctrine and what he is actually saying in a cloaked way is follow your conscience, the conscience that is dictated to you by our doctrine.

All the most recent Popes have stated at the start of their terms that the church is wrong about this wrong about that.

It matters nothing unless there is change and if the past is anything to go by the next one will be saying the exact same thing about the exact same wrongs - still being perpetrated.

Does the Church of England, the Presbyterian Church or the Lutheran Church do that? Do the Hindus. In my experience they give principally to their own flocks.

An almost laughable point - Any aid the catholic church gives outside of its flock is with the express purpose of converting over to its own flock, the fact that other religions do this as well is irrelevant and does not excuse it.

For the record I view most religions in the same light.


Amounts collected from dictators? You know more than I.

Are you not aware of the fund raising by that wretched woman Theresa?

She took money from the Duvalier family that were the heads of the ruling military junta in Haiti who oppressed and enslaved their people.

Or the million plus she accepted from Charles Keating - a crook at the middle of one of America's biggest financial scandals in its history?

She and the church refused to return it - even people as low as politicians are shamed into returning money gained from dodgy people.


The church is the largest organization in the world and calls for immediate and far reaching change ignore the complexity of change on this scale and the resistance to change by the many reactionary bishops and cardinals appointed by his predecessors. His general approach of reducing the power of clerics and emphasizing the role of laity will be hard to pull of for a Pope nearing 80.


Then perhaps the church should consider younger, more energetic Popes in the future that can drive through the reforms and see them through to completion.

It wont, because ultimately it doesn't want to change, it will fiddle about at the margins in order to appease, effectively kicking reform into the long grass.

It took the church until the sixties to apologise for smearing Mary Magdalene as a prostitute which was a move to prevent women becoming prominent with the church's hierarchy.

As for your point about saints, the church has never previously baulked at sainting dodgy people in the past.

A lot of saints are noteworthy to the same or a greater degree for their misdeeds than for their good works.

Take Thomas Moore who burned and tortured people for the heinus crime of owning a bible in English.

It was as recent as the year 2000 that he was made the patron Saint of politicians.

He pontificates that all of us should give more to charity? Well isn't that right?

Yes it is but I wont be told to do so by an organisation which is richer than many small to medium size countries and gives as a percentage of its wealth far less than the rest of us do.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Zooropa » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:25 pm

Scottishtourist wrote:I've been slated on forum for asking certain things about Islam.My intention was never to offend anyone,I was asking out of interest and to be educated.I generally find that followers of one religion are keen to learn about others,whereas followers of none are more keen to criticize and condemn all.

Guilty as charged and proud.

There is much to criticise.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Bullet Magnet » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:10 pm

There is much to critisise indeed... and If I had my way years ago, I would have had a world wide ban on all religion. :stp
BUT, you cant do that, as there are too many people dependent upon it...


Unlike many of the Lambs, I do read the Bible, almost cover to cover infact.

As a Kid, I made a startling discovery while I was following the exploits of the Arc, but it was rebuked by those I told, and dismissed as impossible..

It seem's to me, that by now, human intelligence should have evolved sufficiently and humans should have had enough exposure to our modern life to figure out what really went on regarding the Exodus and settlement in Israel, ( and why many of the Jews were later desperate to go back to Egypt, as detailed in Jerimiah ). This seems one of the most blindingly obvious decipherable stories made up of several episodes.
We should be able to see also where things went really badly wrong, and why we were plunged into the stoneage, or should I say Bronze age,
( and the stoneage has simply been assumed as part of our evolution in our edukayshun ). The "evidence" has been made to fit...

I was caned in School for making a rather obvious and possibly sarcastic comment regarding Cain and Able.
The elder brother slaying his younger brother and then hiding in a town...

My obvious response (not to many people it seemed ), was to ask where the town came from that Cain hid in..
No Answer.. I was sent to the deputy head to receive the other "cane"..
My utterance of defiance when leaving the office was to say "Clearly there never was a Cain and Able, but the analogy is a true story".


Now, I converted my DD mother to Christianity when I was 12 years old, it took less than 1 minute.
However, the Church and the teachings of Christ clearly assisted her in her life, even though she did struggle with Christianity, and tried different denominations of Christianity, she died a perfect death at the age of 43, it could not have been timed any better..
This also ensured she was not going to be back in the lower vibratory plane anytime soon.

Its a question of faith, but do not allow your faith to blind you, question everything. Read the bible properly, don't have it preached to you, as that is a trap... There are a few surprises waiting, regardless....

And that last statement is where I see Pope Francis coming into his own, he will pick up the staff that the other's have refused to touch...
Even the forces of Evil must have realised a "certain something" by now.. They cant be that stupid...
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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Zooropa » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:14 pm

A good Guy?

Here is his chance to show it:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26044852

Source: BBC

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Bullet Magnet » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:43 pm

Hopefully so, Z'

No Doubt the BBC likes to highlight the Catholic Church pedophile cases, but forgets the ongoing saga at the BBC.
Which let's face it, is akin to the Pot calling the kettle Black.

We also have to sort out those upper class deviants as well...


The Vatican is supposed to be making a statement on the U.N.'s findings later today,
according to the Guardians coverage of the same report..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/f ... hild-abuse
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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Dusak » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:43 pm

I have always said that good comes from bad. Its excellent news that the Vatican has been told to shop all pedo's and those suspected of being to the cops. This will lead to a massive recruitment drive as there will only be about three left practicing so should clear the jobless numbers in one [foul] swoop. Manner from heaven. :up
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Zooropa » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:43 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote:Hopefully so, Z'

No Doubt the BBC likes to highlight the Catholic Church pedophile cases, but forgets the ongoing saga at the BBC.
Which let's face it, is akin to the Pot calling the kettle Black.

We also have to sort out those upper class deviants as well...


The Vatican is supposed to be making a statement on the U.N.'s findings later today,
according to the Guardians coverage of the same report..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/f ... hild-abuse
True, but there is no mud on me and I'm calling them out.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Hafiz » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:31 am

Zoopra.

1st point Yes

2nd point - Cant turn an ocean liner on a sixpence but my other point is that he has said there is too much emphasis on genitals.

3rd point - What has conscience to do with it? Everything. Whatever the Church says it is not a sin if a person, informed by his conscience, believes it right or not wrong. Conscience and its right to freedom is front and center of theology for more than a thousand years. The general catechical examples given to 10 year olds include the right to steal in certain cases, the right to kill in circumstances not covered by war or self protection etc.In more recent times, and this may interest you, the teaching against contraception was always accompanied by a sermon on the rights of conscience and necessity. Most of what is published on this matter is a highly colored beat up because it is too complex to attract a journalist's attention.

Point 4 - You must be on another planet. Why even in the Luxor area older posters will tell you of charitable and artistic/historical work. As far as evangelism, its illegal in Egypt and the number of Catholics miniscule. The churches involvement goes back beyond St Francis who tried to broker a peace in Cairo between Saladin and the Crusaders. His Franciscan successors run schools and kindergartens today for the poor in Cairo. Any cursory view of the major Catholic secondary school in Cairo will show that it has produced leaders in politics, business and the arts and that those people are overwhelmingly Copt or Muslim. The Catholic Patriarch of Alexandria has stood out from the strident religious leaders over the past few years by refusing to support any government whilst calling for reconciliation. By contrast, the Copts, with their emphasis on the needs and interests of their isolated group, is like the other orthodox religions in the region - narrow and partisan and too close to politics.

Point 5 - Mother Teresa is not the Church nor was she the Pope. Dirty money is regularly given to charity. Think Nobel, Rhodes, Rockerfeller, Carnegie. Acceptance is always fraught with moral questions but there is something to be said that the money is cleansed by a good use. Duvalier was a criminal as was Keating but Keating didn't kill or torture people and, therefore, his crimes are of a lower order.The non-return of the money is a laughable assertion. Did you ever know of a small charity in the third world with cash reserves or trust funds to cover any demand for return. The money was probably spent and, if my personal experience is anything to go be, the nuns didn't take it as, even here, they live in near poverty.

Point 6 - the Mary Magdalene charge is rot. The Thomas More charge is scandalous and wrong. He is not the patron saint of politicians, he has been for some time the Patron Saint of lawyers. He neither burnt nor directed the burning of others. Even had he wanted, the axe was the preffered instrument of death and Henry VIII used that to execute him and it was that king, not Moore, who also used it to kill scores of Roman Catholics in the same manner. If he is your example of dodgy saints you will need to look further. I won't be giving you any hints.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Dusak » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:41 pm

Saints preserve us. :tk Do they work?
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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Brian Yare » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:55 pm

Dusak wrote:Saints preserve us. :tk Do they work?
Mummification using natron, or formaldehyde, is much more efficient; and does not rely on blind faith.

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Re: Pope Francis = Good Guy ?

Post by Hafiz » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:12 am

I made a mistake, something nagging made me check it out. I shouldn't have written the post relying on just memory.

Thomas More was involved in heresy executions (as stated by Zooropa) the penalty for which for 3 was death by fire. A further 3 were executed on his watch but it seems he had little to do with these.

A bad record, but needs to be considered by the standards of that day not our day. Troubling nevertheless. It is also true that these events are ignored or covered up so I think that its 1 major point to Zooropa and bed without supper for me.

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