Do you have a faith ?

Luxor has both Christian and Moslem communities and the politics of the Middle East are equally diverse. Air your views on the situation.

Moderators: DJKeefy, 4u Network

User avatar
WIZARD
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7947
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: LUTON
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 361 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Do you have a faith ?

Post by WIZARD » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:56 am

Do you have a true and sincere faith in a divine deity, or do you just sit on the fence until the fashions changes.


WIZARD

User avatar
Zooropa
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Leicester
Has thanked: 1286 times
Been thanked: 1749 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by Zooropa » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:13 pm

Neither, Im a passionate atheist.

Faith is for fools.

User avatar
WIZARD
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7947
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: LUTON
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 361 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by WIZARD » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:45 pm

Zooropa wrote:.

Faith is for fools.
"I have great faith in fools; my friends call it self-confidence".

Edgar Allan Poe
WIZARD

User avatar
Bearded Brian
Top Member
Top Member
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:17 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 660 times
Been thanked: 554 times
Gender:
Cambodia

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by Bearded Brian » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:46 pm

Faith is for those that want to control other people or be controlled by other people

User avatar
WIZARD
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7947
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: LUTON
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 361 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by WIZARD » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:31 pm

I don't believe that for one moment BB, and deep down I don't think you do either.
WIZARD

User avatar
Zooropa
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Leicester
Has thanked: 1286 times
Been thanked: 1749 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by Zooropa » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:55 pm

WIZARD wrote:I don't believe that for one moment BB, and deep down I don't think you do either.
I think he does mean it and what's more I agree with him 100%. Disagree with him if you will but respect him enough to accept that he knows his own mind. Which incidentley is something that religious leaders don't want you to do. They would rather do your thinking for you. Not all of us are sheep.

User avatar
Bearded Brian
Top Member
Top Member
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:17 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 660 times
Been thanked: 554 times
Gender:
Cambodia

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by Bearded Brian » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:26 pm

Sorry Zooropa, Wizard is right. Deep down I don't believe there are just the two groups - I forgot the ones that when born didn't want to be controlled but have since been brainwashed into a religion and are now unwittingly controlled.

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5875
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7332 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by Dusak » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:33 am

The answer is so simplistic, show me the hard evidence and I will shake the hand of the person providing it. That's not too much to ask is it?
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

User avatar
HEPZIBAH
Luxor4u God
Luxor4u God
Posts: 11409
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 3074 times
Been thanked: 4330 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by HEPZIBAH » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:42 am

Dusak wrote:The answer is so simplistic, show me the hard evidence and I will shake the hand of the person providing it. That's not too much to ask is it?
But then that is not faith!
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

User avatar
HEPZIBAH
Luxor4u God
Luxor4u God
Posts: 11409
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 3074 times
Been thanked: 4330 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by HEPZIBAH » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:44 am

Zooropa wrote:Neither, Im a passionate atheist.

Faith is for fools.

Atheism could actually be described as a faith in it's own right.


Personally, I'd rather be a fool with faith than one without.
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

User avatar
Zooropa
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Leicester
Has thanked: 1286 times
Been thanked: 1749 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by Zooropa » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:47 pm

HEPZIBAH wrote:
Zooropa wrote:Neither, Im a passionate atheist.

Faith is for fools.

Atheism could actually be described as a faith in it's own right.


Personally, I'd rather be a fool with faith than one without.
No it couldn't. It's a position based on lack of evidence.

That's just a feeble argument to justify your position.

It doesn't.

User avatar
HEPZIBAH
Luxor4u God
Luxor4u God
Posts: 11409
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 3074 times
Been thanked: 4330 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by HEPZIBAH » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:02 pm

Zooropa wrote:
HEPZIBAH wrote:
Zooropa wrote:Neither, Im a passionate atheist.

Faith is for fools.

Atheism could actually be described as a faith in it's own right.


Personally, I'd rather be a fool with faith than one without.
No it couldn't. It's a position based on lack of evidence.

That's just a feeble argument to justify your position.

It doesn't.
I don't need to justify my position to anyone so I certainly don't need an argument for it. However, I can still make a statement - that does not constitute an argument.
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

User avatar
HEPZIBAH
Luxor4u God
Luxor4u God
Posts: 11409
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 3074 times
Been thanked: 4330 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by HEPZIBAH » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:10 pm

It is interesting that atheists argue that there is no God or divine deity and yet they have never been able to prove that one does not exist.

The argument of proof works both ways.
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7121
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2045 times
Been thanked: 5991 times
Egypt

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by newcastle » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:21 pm

HEPZIBAH wrote:It is interesting that atheists argue that there is no God or divine deity and yet they have never been able to prove that one does not exist.

The argument of proof works both ways.
Oh please ! The onus is on believers. I can't PROVE that there isn't a real Father Christmas or fairies at the bottom of my garden....but I require some evidence of their existence before accepting such a patently unlikely possibility. Don't you?

The existence of God comes into the same category. It's an inherently improbable concept and is only accepted by those with "faith".

Faith can be defined as the acceptance as "true" something which is "impossible to prove".

The gods of the ancient Egyptians, the Vikings, the Greeks & the Romans have all been & gone in a millisecond of human history. I fully expect the God of Abraham to suffer the same fate in due course.

User avatar
Zooropa
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Leicester
Has thanked: 1286 times
Been thanked: 1749 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by Zooropa » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:26 pm

HEPZIBAH wrote:It is interesting that atheists argue that there is no God or divine deity and yet they have never been able to prove that one does not exist.

The argument of proof works both ways.

No it doesn't - The burden of proof is on the believer to provide evidence of existence not on the non believer to provide evidence it does not.

"We" have never proved non existence because we don't need to.

And why would we want to?

You may get a different answer from Newcastle, but, most atheists don't argue that there is no god or divine deity, they argue that there is no credible evidence to support such a proposition.

And there isn't.

User avatar
Zooropa
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Leicester
Has thanked: 1286 times
Been thanked: 1749 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by Zooropa » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:26 pm

newcastle wrote:
HEPZIBAH wrote:It is interesting that atheists argue that there is no God or divine deity and yet they have never been able to prove that one does not exist.

The argument of proof works both ways.
Oh please ! The onus is on believers. I can't PROVE that there isn't a real Father Christmas or fairies at the bottom of my garden....but I require some evidence of their existence before accepting such a patently unlikely possibility. Don't you?

The existence of God comes into the same category. It's an inherently improbable concept and is only accepted by those with "faith".

Faith can be defined as the acceptance as "true" something which is "impossible to prove".

The gods of the ancient Egyptians, the Vikings, the Greeks & the Romans have all been & gone in a millisecond of human history. I fully expect the God of Abraham to suffer the same fate in due course.

Bravo Newcastle, you beat me to it.

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7121
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2045 times
Been thanked: 5991 times
Egypt

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by newcastle » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:42 pm

Zooropa wrote:
HEPZIBAH wrote:It is interesting that atheists argue that there is no God or divine deity and yet they have never been able to prove that one does not exist.

The argument of proof works both ways.

No it doesn't - The burden of proof is on the believer to provide evidence of existence not on the non believer to provide evidence it does not.

"We" have never proved non existence because we don't need to.

And why would we want to?

You may get a different answer from Newcastle, but, most atheists don't argue that there is no god or divine deity, they argue that there is no credible evidence to support such a proposition.

And there isn't.
Exactly!

What I find puzzling, and slightly disturbing, is that those with faith in the existence of God invariably demand MORE RESPECT for their belief than, say, a belief in the existence of fairies or unicorns. The evidence for either is distinctly absent.

LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 2256 times
Canada

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:39 pm

The concept of faith if you think about it initially outside a religious context is quite interesting.

A child is born with a kind of blind faith (could it be called instinct?) that they will receive nutrition, acceptance, protection, nurturing etc from a parent. A baby through child to teen (? - question mark as I can't say exactly when faith leaves) has faith. That vague, hard to define concept of belief in a power higher than themselves that will protect and give to them. Children just intuitively instinctively believe in the omnipotence of their parents. Am sure this is a warm good feeling that their parents love them, will provide for them etc.

Then move or shift to adulthood where the adult opts to include a religious faith based system to their life.

Is this, via religion, not the same feeling(s) adults seek? And really what is wrong with wanting this? If carrying this same faith (however your own religion defines it) gives the adult the feelings they seek then I really don't see having faith or, as adults tend to refer to it - have A faith is ok.

User avatar
Zooropa
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Leicester
Has thanked: 1286 times
Been thanked: 1749 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by Zooropa » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:57 pm

It's ok as long as it's not peddled as fact to children who are more inclined to accept things without query ( this one of the reasons why religion has endured - childhood indoctrination). And it still does not make it true.

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7121
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2045 times
Been thanked: 5991 times
Egypt

Re: Do you have a faith ?

Post by newcastle » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:37 pm

A deistic belief...and the faith that goes with it....are, in themselves, relatively harmless delusions although they can lead some people to abandon common sense ( especially if their brand of faith transcribes into the "everything is determined by (their) God" ).

It's the organised religions which are the problem. Arguably they have been responsible for more human misery than all the plagues & natural disasters visited on mankind put together.

Do children have "faith" LLL ? I doubt it. There's a perfectly sensible evolutionary reason why children - in fact all creatures - 'blindly' accept the instructions of their parents. Mum knows best (through experience) and offspring who question her instructions about life's dangers have a much reduced chance of survival & thus transmitting their genes.

This brings me to Zooropa's good point. Belief in God & religion has to be taught...in the modern world we don't need a god to explain much at all. Those questions that science hasn't yet answered....nor has religion. The origin of the universe? As yet we don't have an irrefutable theory. God then? Is that an answer???? An explanation???

If he created the universe, who created him? He doesn't need a creator? Then why does the universe? Quite nonsensical arguments.

Likewise the origin of life.

Earlier societies had a greater tendency to attribute the inexplicable to gods....as there was much they didn't understand scientifically. It's a unique (as far as we know) attribute of our species that we seem to wish to know how and why things are as they are.

It would be an interesting experiment to bring up a group of children without exposure to gods & religion....and see if it ever entered their minds.

I've heard the teaching of religion to young minds described as a form of child abuse....unintentional of course.

I'll hop off my soap box at this point....having strayed a bit from the subject of "faith". But if religion is the nigger in the woodpile, it's "faith" that perpetuates it.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • Blind faith?
    by newcastle » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:28 pm » in Know Egypt
    2 Replies
    448 Views
    Last post by Major Thom
    Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:22 pm
  • Losing faith with Luxor :(
    by DJKeefy » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:22 am » in Living in Luxor
    123 Replies
    1757 Views
    Last post by newcastle
    Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:22 pm