newcastle wrote:This thread's in danger of straying from the simple question "is it right for the law to ban a woman from wearing the niqab in the street".
It would be easier and quicker to concede that you have lost the argument and so want to move on - since when have you been in charge of what can cannot be discussed?
So far I've seen lots of obfuscation about repressive islamic culture....from the (alleged) forcing of women to adopt the veil in public to the stoning of homosexuals, FGM, gang rapes and grooming of vulnerable girls
All facts, i dont subscribe to "feels not facts" if you find the truth unpleasant or upsetting then i dont give a sh*t.
The idea that the niqab is a misogynistic device forced upon unwilling females is disputed by many niqab wearers. In seeking to ban it completely, you are guilty of the same offence you ascribe to muslim men....forcing your viewpoint, with very limited anecdotal evidence, on someone else. Such "evidence" as there is (that it's fundamentally misogynistic) invariably comes from someone who has already decided that it's an exercise in male domination. Of course they'll claim that the lack of niqab wearers willing to complain about their plight is proof positive that these women are afraid to speak out. Objection, M'lud! The witness is relaying an entirely subjective opinion!
I dont support the ban and made this clear. Is there someone that can read this thread back to you if its not clear?
Quite why you feel the need to go into character of some sort of solicitor is beyond me, your argument that it isnt mysoginistic or that there is little evidence to show this, is just as speculative as claims that it is, i know you like to be superior on here but it doesnt elevate your subjective claims above others.
Ive made it clear that that arguments on both sides are based on unreliable accounts arising from potential situations the people involved may be in.
You never change, you want to dismiss people like Ayann Hirsi Ali when she relates her experiences and say her reasoning is because she has an agenda yet those who say they love being dressed up like a bin liner is evidence that they are no opressed and the rest of us are deluded, no chance of her evidence being unreliable of course, thats because it suits you enabler like opinion.
Unless there's a practical reason for banning the niqab (as covered previously) then, in a free society, anyone should be allowed to dress as they wish, within the bounds of decency.
Yawn, how many times do you want me to agree with this statement? Again, if your struggling to read this then please ask for assistance
I'll grant that a woman wearing the niqab is hardly adopting a dress code conducive to "integration"...but since when was a disinclination to integrate a criminal offence?
Well, perhaps it should be, not integrating is the single biggest cause of social tension and of course if it was us non Muslim/white westerners who didnt want to integrate you would be making the same case in our defence wouldnt you, no suggestions of racism/Islamophobia or Little Englander quips im sure.
Dont insult my intelligence.
Or are you suggesting that , by forcing them to stay at home, or insisting that they discard the veil when out, you're striking a blow for female emancipation and they will change their customs and beliefs....to be more aligned with your own superior ones
If so, you're deluded.
They are not being forced to stay at home, they are being told they cant come out looking like a frogman, i dont agree with it but seeing as they are not oppressed and choose to wear this item of clothing then it should not be a barrier to them going outside. Or do you think they are oppressed? Make your bloo*y mind up, you cant change elements of your case when it suits.
If you are trying (and it looks like you are) to suggest that oppression of women within Muslim communities does not exist and is the product of Islamophobes trying to skew the debate then you are the one that is deluded.
You are also an enabler of oppression.
You know my views on Religion, i hate them all and if i was asked to rank them i would say top is Islam, second is Catholicism, third is all the muppets in America who hold a bible in one hand and point and scream at gay people with the other followed by all the rest.
Yes, i do think my customs and beliefs are superior, i think thats demonstrable by my criticism on this and other threads. Clearly, most people in the west (minus enablers like yourself of course) think this to one degree or another otherwise we would all be adopting those beliefs instead of hanging on to the ones we have.
What obvious truths are you going to deny next and what nonsense are you going to use to try to do it?
Next you will be saying that women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to drive because they are too small to see above the dashboard.[/color]