Banning the Niqab

Luxor has both Christian and Moslem communities and the politics of the Middle East are equally diverse. Air your views on the situation.

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Zooropa » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:18 am

Im not Liberal, im a libertarian.

You are not Liberal, you are an ignoramus who refuses to accept evidence based facts when they dont suit your point of view/prove you to be utterly wrong.

I have not given any indication as to the amount of women who may be forced to wear this item or have been condition/brainwashed.

Im sure there are plenty of idiots who choose to look like a penguin, every society has its fools.

Its not oppression its asking them to join society, if they dont like it then there are plenty of countries in the world that will happily oppress them that they can move to.

Whether they choose to take up this option is upto them, they wont suddenly find themselves with a suitcase at the airport like many people have in the country where you live and you have the temerity to accuse these countries where millions of Muslim's are flocking to each year as oppressive.

Despite your attention seeking bating, I myself have not been personal, just honest.

Ali has also been a victim of FGM, are you going to demand a photo before you accept that fact or just contend that she had it of her own free will?

You are still a risible individual who appears to be a fully paid up member of the "If its Islam its ok whatever" club.

How sad.



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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Horus » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:30 am

his sidekick twittering from the wings with a load of irrelevant distractions and personal insults
Rather a case of his sidekick presenting you with examples that you cannot refute in your attempt to justify your fake liberal credentials. ;) You know, the ones that have you chirping on about how all these nasty bigoted Western people want to ban a full face covering in public, whilst you support with your money and presence one of the most oppressive regimes in the world, one dominated by a religion that shows more intolerance towards other faiths than any other one I could possibly think of. I find your references to everyone who objects to the practice of veil wearing as being a bigot, just as big of a personal insult as you obviously do at being called a barrack room lawyer.

These words by the Eurythmics sum up the mentality of veil wearers, the last line says it all.

Sweet dreams are made of this
Who am I to disagree?
I travel the world
And the seven seas,
Everybody's looking for something.
Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused.
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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:33 am

Zooropa wrote:Im not Liberal, im a libertarian.

Oh! Free will and all that...except when it comes to a woman dressing how she wants.

You are not Liberal, you are an ignoramus who refuses to accept evidence based facts when they dont suit your point of view/prove you to be utterly wrong.

I'm still waiting for them...with regard to whether or not it's the free choice of anyone to wear the niqab.

I have not given any indication as to the amount of women who may be forced to wear this item or have been condition/brainwashed.

So you don't have any evidence...thought so.

Im sure there are plenty of idiots who choose to look like a penguin, every society has its fools.

You're sure... based on what? I can see your antipathy to frogmen, penguins. What about mobile bin liners. Surely you can come up with more demeaning insults for islamic wear?

Its not oppression its asking them to join society, if they dont like it then there are plenty of countries in the world that will happily oppress them that they can move to.

So...accept my view or bugger off. Not at all oppressive.

Whether they choose to take up this option is upto them, they wont suddenly find themselves with a suitcase at the airport like many people have in the country where you live and you have the temerity to accuse these countries where millions of Muslim's are flocking to each year as oppressive.

Many people? Mmmmm...no point in asking for evidence I suppose?

Despite your attention seeking bating, I myself have not been personal, just honest.

I'll take "ignoramus" as a compliment then.


Ali has also been a victim of FGM, are you going to demand a photo before you accept that fact or just contend that she had it of her own free will?

Let's deflect the conversation. But you'd do better to deflect it to something to do with Islam....to at least keep marginally on topic

You are still a risible individual who appears to be a fully paid up member of the "If its Islam its ok whatever" club.

I'm actually a member of the "have a conversation with bigoted islamophobes and watch them display their true colours" club

How sad.

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:56 am

Horus wrote:
his sidekick twittering from the wings with a load of irrelevant distractions and personal insults
Rather a case of his sidekick presenting you with examples that you cannot refute in your attempt to justify your fake liberal credentials. ;) You know, the ones that have you chirping on about how all these nasty bigoted Western people want to ban a full face covering in public, whilst you support with your money and presence one of the most oppressive regimes in the world, one dominated by a religion that shows more intolerance towards other faiths than any other one I could possibly think of. I find your references to everyone who objects to the practice of veil wearing as being a bigot, just as big of a personal insult as you obviously do at being called a barrack room lawyer.

These words by the Eurythmics sum up the mentality of veil wearers, the last line says it all.

Sweet dreams are made of this
Who am I to disagree?
I travel the world
And the seven seas,
Everybody's looking for something.
Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused.
Second verse...bit like the first...repetitive

Hold your head up
Keep your head up, movin' on
Hold your head up, movin' on
Keep your head up, movin' on
Hold your head up
Keep your head up, movin' on
Hold your head up, movin' on
Keep your head up, movin' on

We have gathered your opinion....

Perhaps you think your opinion , coupled with Zooropa's, represents evidence.....irrefutable fact.

High time both of you adopted some religion or other. 5 billion plus people can't be wrong, surely, with their belief that God exists.

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Zooropa » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:17 pm

newcastle wrote:
Zooropa wrote:Im not Liberal, im a libertarian.

Oh! Free will and all that...except when it comes to a woman dressing how she wants.

You are not Liberal, you are an ignoramus who refuses to accept evidence based facts when they dont suit your point of view/prove you to be utterly wrong.

I'm still waiting for them...with regard to whether or not it's the free choice of anyone to wear the niqab.

I have not given any indication as to the amount of women who may be forced to wear this item or have been condition/brainwashed.

So you don't have any evidence...thought so.

Im sure there are plenty of idiots who choose to look like a penguin, every society has its fools.

You're sure... based on what? I can see your antipathy to frogmen, penguins. What about mobile bin liners. Surely you can come up with more demeaning insults for islamic wear?

Its not oppression its asking them to join society, if they dont like it then there are plenty of countries in the world that will happily oppress them that they can move to.

So...accept my view or bugger off. Not at all oppressive.

Whether they choose to take up this option is upto them, they wont suddenly find themselves with a suitcase at the airport like many people have in the country where you live and you have the temerity to accuse these countries where millions of Muslim's are flocking to each year as oppressive.

Many people? Mmmmm...no point in asking for evidence I suppose?

Despite your attention seeking bating, I myself have not been personal, just honest.

I'll take "ignoramus" as a compliment then.


Ali has also been a victim of FGM, are you going to demand a photo before you accept that fact or just contend that she had it of her own free will?

Let's deflect the conversation. But you'd do better to deflect it to something to do with Islam....to at least keep marginally on topic

You are still a risible individual who appears to be a fully paid up member of the "If its Islam its ok whatever" club.

I'm actually a member of the "have a conversation with bigoted islamophobes and watch them display their true colours" club

How sad.
Better a bigoted Islamophobe than a cowardly enabler.

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:36 pm

Zooropa wrote:
Better a bigoted Islamophobe than a cowardly enabler.
Oh! To think my meagre contribution to Egypt's economy "enables" it to better run it's oppressive police state.

I wonder if I'll get a Christmas card from Sisi this year :tk

"cowardly"....Mmmmm. Possibly have to put my hands up to that. Martyrdom has never seemed attractive...and a night or two helping the local plods with their enquiries doesn't appeal much either.

If I leave Egypt, possibly never to return, I might feel inclined to lay into the iniquities of life here. So much easier to be brave...from a distance.

I take it you won't be Nile cruising or 5-star-holidaying here in the future? Can't have you being hypocritical :wi

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Zooropa » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:31 pm

The next time i visit Egypt and amend my outspoken views on its government and intolerant attitude and ignore the truth you can call me a hypocrite.

I go to visit the monuments and learn about its history as its an important part of human civilization.

Islam i detest, its adherants i take, as i always have on a case by case bases.

What i wont do is plant myself in a country, defend its way of life in relation to its human rights policies or lack there of and point the finger of bigotry when ive lost a debate at people who point it out.

And my future plans regarding Egypt are none of your damned business.

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:18 pm

Zooropa wrote:The next time i visit Egypt and amend my outspoken views on its government and intolerant attitude and ignore the truth you can call me a hypocrite.

I go to visit the monuments and learn about its history as its an important part of human civilization.

Islam i detest, its adherants i take, as i always have on a case by case bases.

What i wont do is plant myself in a country, defend its way of life in relation to its human rights policies or lack there of and point the finger of bigotry when ive lost a debate at people who point it out.

And my future plans regarding Egypt are none of your damned business.
Calm down dear! Think of your blood pressure.

Perhaps you'd point out where I've defended Egypt's record on human rights .

Lost a debate.....? :))) :)))

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Horus » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:29 pm

Perhaps you think your opinion , coupled with Zooropa's, represents evidence.....irrefutable fact.
Actually no, it is you who claim to be correct in all things, I merely question your condemnation of someone wanting to ban a Muslim accoutrement from being worn in a Western country, yet can offer no defence when I point out to you that the same actions are imposed by a Muslim country against Christian Westerners, you seem have more faces than the town hall clock when it comes to principles.
High time both of you adopted some religion or other. 5 billion plus people can't be wrong, surely, with their belief that God exists.
I may consider adopting some religious beliefs at about the same time as I start believing in ‘The Tooth Fairy’ ‘Santa Claus’ ‘The Bogeyman’ and a long list of other fantasies that a fevered brain can conjure up.
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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:39 pm

Horus wrote:From the UK GOV site regarding Saudi Arabia
Islamic codes of behaviour and dress are strictly enforced. Women should wear conservative, loose-fitting clothes as well as a full length cloak (abaya) and a headscarf. Men should not wear shorts in public.

So who exactly is telling who how they should dress? But I suppose that is OK when the imposition is the other way around?
You really want the UK to mirror the Wahhabi-inspired dress codes of KSA? Saudi citizens are restricted by the dress code laid down in their interpretation of the Qur'an. Since when did the UK have a dress code which could be infringed? You can wear whatever you want, however bizarre.

Bur not, of course, in the eyes of the islamophobes.... anything but the niqab! Far too overtly islamic.

Skull cap...crucifix...no problem. Niqab....no way!

Incidentally, the UK Gov advice (and it's advice...not law) for foreigners in KSA is overstated. Headscarves are not a legal issue. Even bikinis can be worn in private Red Sea resorts.

Egypt is pretty liberal with regard to scantily dressed foreigners...even though conservative Egyptians find all that exposed flesh disgusting. There are no laws in Egypt requiring foreigners to "cover up".

Enough with pussyfooting around the topic of banning the niqab! Nothing to do with "security". Nothing to do with "female emancipation". Nothing to do with "what other countries do". Nothing to do with "British values"

All to do with islamophobia.

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Zooropa » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:15 pm

Apples and pairs, a skull cap and a crucifix don't prevent social contact with other human beings.

They also don't represent a security risk as far as identification is concerned.

They are also not symbols of oppression.

Reference your previous butthurt outrage at my very comical quips of what women who wear this item of clothing look like:

Of course its Islamophobic, its the only pathetic retort you have when you have lost an argument.

Fashion is a matter of taste and there are countless put downs, pi55 takes and cutting remarks made in general conversation, on TV and in the media about fashion sense all the time.

But nobody takes the time to find out the religion or the ethnicity of the person whos been ridiculed in order to add an ism or a phobia by way of retort.

Ive always thought that a woman dressed up like Batman looked ridiculous if you dont then fine, its all about opinions.

They may be offended at my barbs and i am most certainly am offended when i see it.

Thats life.

I dont really care how liberal Egypt's attitude is to dress, i may not like it and criticise it but its their choice at the end of the day and people know the score when they go.

If they disregard what is passed as the norm they only have themselves to blame if they get into trouble/have an unpleasant reaction.

Its the same old same old on here.

I remember some members getting all offended on behalf of the locals when people have said "i showed my arms and my legs and nobody said anything"

Only to be slapped down by various members who said "that doesnt mean they were ok with it" and "you should respect their culture and their codes"

Fair enough, but then, why cant we get offended when the reverse happens in the west?

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:52 pm

I have no problem with anyone taking offence at what someone wears.

It's the act of depriving the wearer of their right to wear whatever they want that I object to.

In my book a racist is not necessarily a person who is uncomfortable with someone of a different race, but a person who acts on that dislike , by word or deed, to the detriment of that someone.

Likewise an islamophobe is not necessarily someone who merely dislikes islam, but someone who goes out of their way to gratuitously insult, or infringe the rights of, the followers of that religion.

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Zooropa » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:08 pm

Ah, well thats not me then, im on the internet all the time having a go at all sorts of people.

Look, i couldn't care less what colour/religion is behind the visor, its got nothing to do with why i dont like it.

Saying someone looks like Batman, a penguin or a frogman is gratuitous is it?

Lol.

So you would happily denounce Muslims like the ones in Luton in a documentary on channel 4 who called women in skirts and sleevless tops "whores" then will you?

They also said they should not be allowed to walk the streets in those clothes.

Sounds Christianophobic to me wouldn't you agree?

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:35 pm

Zooropa wrote:Ah, well thats not me then, im on the internet all the time having a go at all sorts of people.

I've noticed :)

Look, i couldn't care less what colour/religion is behind the visor, its got nothing to do with why i dont like it.

Saying someone looks like Batman, a penguin or a frogman is gratuitous is it?

Lol.

Only if you go up to a niqab-wearer in the street and say "you look like a f*cking frogman".It's not your personal dislikes...it's whether you act on them.

So you would happily denounce Muslims like the ones in Luton in a documentary on channel 4 who called women in skirts and sleevless tops "whores" then will you?

Absolutely! Cretins come in all shapes and from all (or no) religions. I have no time for anyone demeaning someones dress sense (or lack thereof)


They also said they should not be allowed to walk the streets in those clothes.

Sounds Christianophobic to me wouldn't you agree?

Sounds yobish to me. I doubt the religion of the woman was in point. Or that a law will be forthcoming to accommodate their islamic viewpoint.
You've already said you wouldn't support a ban on the niqab (or words to that effect). Consequently, I haven't called you an islamophobe. You said you detest islam. I'm no fan of it myself. That doesn't make either of us islamophobes.

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Horus » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:07 pm

That doesn't make either of us islamophobes.
But by your criteria that makes me one? You really are a pompous opinionated fool Newcastle, someone puts a counter to your own postulations and you have to resort to that last refuge of a scoundrel and start yelling “fascist” “nazi” “islamophobe” it is obviously the only way you can attempt to justify your flawed logic when it comes to winning an argument. You come over as an “Islamic sycophant” “an apologist for Islam” “a supporter of Islamic oppression” “an Islamic enabler and supporter of barbaric practices” Ooops! Sorry, I am starting to sound like you, see how preposterous it sounds? 8)
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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Zooropa » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:26 pm

newcastle wrote:
Zooropa wrote:Ah, well thats not me then, im on the internet all the time having a go at all sorts of people.

I've noticed :)

Look, i couldn't care less what colour/religion is behind the visor, its got nothing to do with why i dont like it.

Saying someone looks like Batman, a penguin or a frogman is gratuitous is it?

Lol.

Only if you go up to a niqab-wearer in the street and say "you look like a f*cking frogman".It's not your personal dislikes...it's whether you act on them.

So you would happily denounce Muslims like the ones in Luton in a documentary on channel 4 who called women in skirts and sleevless tops "whores" then will you?

Absolutely! Cretins come in all shapes and from all (or no) religions. I have no time for anyone demeaning someones dress sense (or lack thereof)


They also said they should not be allowed to walk the streets in those clothes.

Sounds Christianophobic to me wouldn't you agree?

Sounds yobish to me. I doubt the religion of the woman was in point. Or that a law will be forthcoming to accommodate their islamic viewpoint.
You've already said you wouldn't support a ban on the niqab (or words to that effect). Consequently, I haven't called you an islamophobe. You said you detest islam. I'm no fan of it myself. That doesn't make either of us islamophobes.
Bingo! And a Muslim's religion isnt in point - until its put in by people like you who want to bandy terms like Islamophobe about.

And forget forthcoming laws to accommodate an Islamic viewpoint, they are not needed.

The authorities in this country just ignore the current ones when they clash.

Its always about Islamophobia whenever anyone who is one is criticised for absolutely anything.

Its an old game, i remember queuing at my local council office many, many years ago when a black man asked if he could go in front of me because he was in a rush.

I declined as i was in a hurry to.

Next thing i know hes complaining to the duty manager saying i was a racist!

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by A-Four » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:38 pm

A-Four wrote:I was in Austria last week, and from reading the news there, the Burqa is banned in that country as of either yesterday or today.

They would have you believe that Austria is a very modern forward thinking liberal country,......believe me, the majority of the people I come across there are very right wing, almost frightening.
Just to bring this subject back into the real world for perhaps a short while, I would simply like to add a few discoveries I made during my time in Austria and in Southern Germany.

When you look at the population of Austria, then realise how many refugees from Syria have been invited to settle in that country, it makes you wonder if it has learnt anything from the Hapsburg days or for that matter World War II.

When we now look at Baveria in Southern Germany, which has 10% of the population and holds the bank accounts of almost one third of the wealth of the whole of modern Germany, I discovered that little has changed there in attitude by its people since when I first visited there in the late 1970's. Believe me, even when I speak with the young people there, one would almost think Adolf Hitler had actually won the war.

When Mrs Merkel invited one million people from Syria to Germany, she expected those who had money to get on a aeroplane from there, in other words doctor, teachers, lawyers etc, that Germany desperately require. What she did not expect was that the poor were prepared to risk their life then walk thousands of miles, to the so called 'promised land'.

I was told by a senior financier there that Germany is the Euro, and every country that uses it is behold to Germany. A war won without even firing a gun. While the U.S.A. plays a game in the Pacific, it is China that is playing the German Euro game there, the frightening thing is that the U.S. has still to realise this.

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:40 pm

Horus wrote:
That doesn't make either of us islamophobes.
But by your criteria that makes me one? You really are a pompous opinionated fool Newcastle, someone puts a counter to your own postulations and you have to resort to that last refuge of a scoundrel and start yelling “fascist” “nazi” “islamophobe” it is obviously the only way you can attempt to justify your flawed logic when it comes to winning an argument. You come over as an “Islamic sycophant” “an apologist for Islam” “a supporter of Islamic oppression” “an Islamic enabler and supporter of barbaric practices” Ooops! Sorry, I am starting to sound like you, see how preposterous it sounds? 8)
Yes...you are an islamophobe. Your desire to see the niqab banned confirms it.

And yes, your rants sound preposterous.

You have a problem not only with logical discourse but also with someone more linguistically competent than yourself.

Get over it .

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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Horus » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:48 pm

:))) :))) :))) Your pomposity really knows no bounds, the above self opinionated rant proves it, your ego soars well above any intellectual level you claim to have attained, you are clearly a legend in your own mind, do stop now before you display your ignorance even further. :a8: :a50: :a8:
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Re: Banning the Niqab

Post by Zooropa » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:57 pm

Foolish idiot.

A You Gov poll in 2016 found that 58% of the UK supported the ban whilst only 25% opposed it.

Newcastle just called more than half of Britain Islamophobic.

Now i know why hed rather attach himself to a family in another country to live with.

I wonder how many Islamophobes have treated him on his frequent visits to the motherland?

:ni:

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