Egypt - Eternal Victory and an Infaliable Army - Joke

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Egypt - Eternal Victory and an Infaliable Army - Joke

Post by Hafiz » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:21 pm

1973. They are celebrating their historic victory over the awful Jews. Its rot and '73 was another stuff up continuing a universal pattern of military and economic stuff ups going back to 1870 and up to 2018. All failure is denied in Egypt and all leadership is 'perfect', therefore nothing is learnt and all mistakes repeat themselves.

For Egypt the '73 was is a victory - a complete lie but like most other propaganda widely believed.

There are some things that just don’t sink in. Like the truth.

“President Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi said on Saturday that "the victory of 1973 was not a coincidence because the roots of victory and conquering hardships are deeply embedded in the soil of our great country," adding "that's how Egypt crossed the bridge between defeat and victory from 1967 to 1973."

’73 wasn’t a victory. The Egyptians got across the canal, may have gone 10ks inland in some places but Cairo and Alex were bombed by Israel whilst the Egyptian Air Force did what it usually does – loose and was basically destroyed on the ground, or in the air.

Against the advice of his chief of staff, Sadat's decision to further advance without air cover allowed the Israelis to launch a counter-offensive (thanks partly to US resupply of weaponry) deep into Egyptian territory, which turned the tide of war on Oct. 14 as a result of which Egypt lost and this war, which it initiated, ended in an ugly mess. Egypt started it, had the initiative and the element of surprise but still stuffed it. Still for the military Immortals it was a victory (specifics and details unclear) - what a bloody joke - and an absolute lie if you believe in facts.

Sadat, a big pro-Nazi in WW2 and imprisoned by the British (his judgement was always bad and the fool didn't work out that the Nazi's he supported regarded Semites as a seriously inferior race to the ruling Germans/Nordics) for this and an utterly useless military commander with no experience of putting men into actual battle, dismissed the Egyptian Chief of Staff Saad El-Shazly at a bad point of the battle and this man maintains in his book The Crossing of the Suhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/firas-alatraqchi ... 263.htmlez (still banned in Egypt) that these tactical decisions by the idiot Sadat on Oct. 14 sealed Egypt's fate. His widow ignores all this and forgets that her foolish husband's decision killed thousands of Egyptians who would not have died under competent generalship - which her husband was not. Her lack of remorse for the stuff ups is exactly what you expect of this rotten ruling class.

By Oct. 24, the Israeli Army was 80 km. from Cairo and 40 km. from Damascus and the Egypt Airforce destroyed. Mubarak was head of the airforce but his failure was seen as a great strength – as it is in Egypt.

The Egyptian Army Engineers stand out. Their performance was the worst of the worst in badly organizing the canal crossing. Not much better nowadays. Its a country that worships engineers but at every point they have proved themselves useless - as they are today.

1973 wasn’t just Egypt’s stuff up.

Here is the list of the help on the 1973 War against Israel which shows that even with a lot of assistance they failed in a huge way and couldn't manage a drink in a pub:

Russia – lots of planes, tanks and military advice, satellite photos and threat to intervene.
Pakistan – sent some pilots who flew Syrian planes.
Cuba – 4,000 troops.
North Korea – 20 pilots.
Libya – troops (numbers unclear but in their thousands) and two squadrons of fighter planes.
Morocco – One infantry brigade, one armed regiment, 52 combat aircraft plus money – 5,500 troops
Saudi and Kuwait – 3,000 troops – followed up with oil embargos which cost them a lot.
Tunisia – 1,000-2,000 troops.
Lebanon – radar units.
Sudan – 3,500 troops.
Jordan – troops but a secret agreement with Israel that they wouldn’t attack Israel if Israel didn’t attack them. King Hussein had flown in secret to Israel just before the war to warn Golda Meir of an imminent attack. They didn’t want to support Egypt and Syria but had to be publically seen to do so.
Algeria – a squadron of fighter planes, an armored brigade of 150 tanks and about $US200 million (in modern money about $US800 million).
Iraq - a squadron on planes and maybe a large number of troops.
Cuba – 1,500-4,000 troops.
Syria – 150,000 troops, 1,200 tanks etc. – performed worse than poorly.

All the external assistance was uncoordinated, with few supplies and little logistical support. Many of the overseas units performed poorly and their Russian technology wasn’t much good. Planning, communications, command structures, intelligence and officer skills of the whole enterprise were also not much good. In a number of cases Generals in the field lied to their superiors to conceal their defeat/problems. As ever initiative was punished. Nothing much has changed

As usual there was disaster at the core. Nasser’s son-in-law was an Israeli spy who alerted the Israeli’s that the Egyptians and Syrians were going to attack. He later died/was murdered/suicided/was killed/fell off a balcony in London.

This map of the positions at the ceasefire shows the small Israel got more Egyptian territory than the other way around and the Egyptian 3rd army encircled. They also got Syrian territory.

Image

Casualties - a measure of who won/lost. Egypt’s figures are unreliable but probably 20,000 dead for their side, Israel about 2,800.

Only a desperado could argue that the Israeli army 80ks from Cairo, your airforce destroyed, your army encircled, the Syrian army and airforce destroyed was a victory. It was part of a long line of defeats. After the war Egypt was completely bankrupt which forced Sadat into the US embrace – and its cash injections.

To admit this was another failure – 1947-48, 1956, Yemen in the 60’s, 1967 and 1973 would raise questions why the military junta were still allowed to run the country after failing on their specialty 5 times. Most would say they were useless - get rid of the fools.

Its pathetic, but possible with a media that has been controlled and propagandistic since 1952 and which tells only lies developed by an educated Egyptian middle class who support the Junta, do their work, and doesn’t care about the truth. The truth is that the people who have run Egypt since 1952 are worse than useless except in relation to telling lies about their failures. Al Pravda still pumps out these lies. If they were useless militarily why would you assume they would be better than useful politically or economically. http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... pts--.aspx

On leaked documents from generals in the 1st Iraq war the Egyptian army was worse than useless. It was so bad that they were sent home and excluded from the victory march bye given to all other participants on the allied side. Even the Kuwati's couldn't tolerate their demand that their image be maintained in the face pf their practical uselessness.



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Re: Egypt - Eternal Victory and an Infaliable Army - Joke

Post by carrie » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:12 am

Hafiz I am beginning to find your constant denigration of Egypt/Egyptians rather tedious. There are some wonderful Egyptian people you can read and quote all you like but unless you are here you will never understand what is going on.

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Re: Egypt - Eternal Victory and an Infaliable Army - Joke

Post by newcastle » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:04 am

To be fair, Hafiz's criticism is generally aimed at the various juntas that have ruled the country since 1952 rather than Egyptians per se. As someone who does live a large part of the time in Egypt, I wouldn't disagree with much of what he writes.

Thoughts of personal preservation deter me from commenting on his more vitriolic comments.....and the fact that one dare not speak one's mind in Egypt today says all I need to say. It contrasts so much with my upbringing in the UK, or what I experience when I travel there.

The only aspect I might disagree with is the contention that the economic reforms are doomed to failure and that there is no one, and no organisation, of any competence in the country.

It's too soon to say.....in my opinion.

Of course the history of the last seven decades doesn't fill one with confidence.....but you never know :lol:

It's taken England 400 years to develop democracy from the days of absolute monarchy and during that time we have experienced episodes of which we can't be proud. To expect Egypt to reach the West's current level of development, both socially and economically, in less than a century is a tad optimistic.

Compared to much of the rest of Africa, they haven't done too bad and if I was looking to spend my dotage in a warm climate with an interesting culture and surrounded by history, I'd choose Egypt over Iran or Saudi Arabia!
Last edited by newcastle on Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Egypt - Eternal Victory and an Infaliable Army - Joke

Post by carrie » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:31 am

I realize that Newcastle but I can't understand his constant negative reporting. What good is it doing? Not informing us because the majority who read the forum know what is going on here. I know what has happened in the past I know about the wars with the Israeli's I also know that they got a lot more armaments money and help from the USA than Egypt did from her allies.

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Re: Egypt - Eternal Victory and an Infaliable Army - Joke

Post by newcastle » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:51 am

carrie wrote:I realize that Newcastle but I can't understand his constant negative reporting. What good is it doing? Not informing us because the majority who read the forum know what is going on here. I know what has happened in the past I know about the wars with the Israeli's I also know that they got a lot more armaments money and help from the USA than Egypt did from her allies.
Only Hafiz can say what his"agenda" is....or what his interest/involvement in Egypt is.

Maybe, like MT, getting deep-seated grievances of his chest. At least he does it less repetitively.....and with a more competent understanding of the language :lol:

Not knowing who views the contents of this forum, I couldn't say whether any of the history or current commentary comes as news. It might well do for your average tourist!

If there are any members of the security aparatus reading, I dare say they've got him marked down as 'persona non grata'....if they can penetrate his identity. :lol:

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Re: Egypt - Eternal Victory and an Infaliable Army - Joke

Post by Hafiz » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:39 am

Carrie. You haven't read me or you give great weight to some posts and forget others.

A poor country going backwards, treating its people badly and not dealing with poverty, illiteracy etc is a matter that arouses my sympathy, curiosity, explanation and frustration. I notice little of this on this forum but a deal of silliness about beaches etc.

If you can find a single post in over 1,000 over 6 years where I have criticized the Egyptians please do so. If you can find a single post where I attack an ordinary Egyptian - please do so.

Some may agree because more than a few of my posts get few hits but others get in their hundreds and about 1/2 of my posts are liked. Given that most are not in the short chat style on chatty subjects people seem to read them.

I have posted a deal on the difficulties of average Egyptians particularly in the health and education areas. Few others have except in isolated anecdotes that usually involve themselves.

I have posted extensively on major and impressive Egyptian figures in politics, the arts, film, books, music, literature, science and other areas. Please locate some others that have done so. I spend more time on economics and finance than others but lack of these is a weakness of this forum and the future of Egypt is going to be based on these hitherto botched areas. I'm sure others post on a broader range of subjects - but I think they are very few.

I have posted on out of the way touristic matters, involving poor people and their products and more recently on a very small museum of calligraphy in Alex. The purpose was to get people to go off the beaten track and get a broader picture. Please post on others that have done such a thing.

In such a troubled country such as Egypt the full story includes both the white and the black and it is true I have contributed more to the second for a number of reasons including that the 'approved' view, often swallowed whole on this forum, is often far from the truth and I have used careful and thorough means to prove my point in such matters rather than the rants of others to whom I have been likened. Certain and very specific matters like the murder of the Italian student I pursued because the local information was a pack of lies that changed every day. In general terms its a country where the government runs with near 100% control so when things go wrong the responsibility is clear. Can anyone point to major successes - even 1 - in the last 70 years.

Is it seen as unusual that a normal human being should be concerned by such things or the hundreds of liberal dissenters and journalists tossed into jails? If so I should leave this forum because the audience isn't interested.

Some people, for various motives, prefer just a universal positive sun drenched view of Egypt. For me that is not the truth - particularly if you are not in the top 10%. The truth is more various and its rarely the authorized or generally accepted view.

The suggestion that I might have hidden or suspicious motives (a word not used) is rot. From the beginning 6 years ago my purposes were clear and haven't changed much. I have no personal, political or ideological interest in Egypt and am not a member of or loosely or closely associated with any organization or body which has an interest in Egypt or any matter related to Egypt.

If people object to my views then prove them wrong - using evidence and logic, not innuendo.

In this specific matter - the '73 war - you provide no rebuttal. My point, not well expressed, is that Egypt has had such a bad 70 years - maybe 2,500 years, that it clings to false glories and '73 is one of them - and hides mistakes - like Yemen in the '60's. People need glories, particularly dictatorships, and all countries inflate them but my point in this and related matters is that there is no substance inside the cloud and little chance that the leadership is going to produce much that is real to be proud of in the future.

If you think there is positive substance to the government's '73 story - then prove it. If not then be careful of criticism. If you can find a single battle Egypt has won since 1952 or even positive participation in Iraq 1 and 2 then I would be very interested.

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Re: Egypt - Eternal Victory and an Infaliable Army - Joke

Post by Major Thom » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:07 am

If people have a grievance they should be free to air any grievance whatsoever, especially if they are used to a free and democratic process. Egypt should really by rights live by this rule too. Gagging or threatening people is not the way forward at all, nor is the threat of taking away human rights too. Any Country no matter which they are should be capable of reading listening or coping with the thoughts of people, its a part of human banter and a part of human freedom and democracy, if they cannot then there is something drastically wrong with the makeup or content of that Country. It's really has simple as that!! For people not to be able to live in a Country and express themselves freely is both a shocking and a breach of their rights and no matter what they think of the Country they should be thinking along the lines of returning to freedom again. Those who express their freedom on this site are doing so because they see many flaws against humanity and freedom, they are not criticizing religion, they are criticizing freedom which at the moment is a thing far away. We can go into a coffee shop and tell jokes about the UK Priminister or Royal Family, and we know that others will laugh along with us, the same in the US, Australia, New Zealand and the rest of the Western World, that is our prerogative, that democracy and that is freedom of speech, wonderful things.

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