Sex tourism

Discuss the problems that can occur in relationships with differing cultures and help overcome any barriers that exist.

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Arthur
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Post by Arthur »

So your answer to the problem of sexual harassment / sex tourism is what GD?


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Post by TonyC »

That's the question that needs answering, but not just by GD though. One "answer" is provided by the Dr, above...
Basically 'get a grip of one's lower emotions and realise that there is a lot more to life than feeding one's sexual urges
It's asking a lot of human beings, but that would stop tourists actually looking for sex!

And if the improbable happened, how long would it take for the sellers along the river banks, in boats and on caleches to realise the market had vanished?
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Post by Kevininabydos »

TonyC wrote: And if the improbable happened, how long would it take for the sellers along the river banks, in boats and on caleches to realise the market had vanished?
About 3 generations! :mrgreen:
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Post by Glyphdoctor »

Arthur wrote:So your answer to the problem of sexual harassment / sex tourism is what GD?
These are two different things. But I would argue that sex tourism in many cases is just men and women not realizing that they are being sexually harassed (or propositioned for bizness as the Germans call it), for the reason that the good Dr. gives, they think with their lower parts! There are some who come to Luxor knowing what they are doing but I think compared to other destinations there is a tendency for sex tourists to be unwilling to admit they are just buying it. Even women who go to Gambia or Jamaica or men to Thailand aren't afraid to admit they are engaging in a financial transaction, but those who come to Egypt are unwilling to admit it.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt and we can't solve any problem until people are willing to admit there is one. So it is good to see the youth of Luxor finally facing their demons.
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Post by Bearded Brian »

So what exactly is the problem any way? That it's happening or that they aren't paid as much as in other countries?
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Post by Kevininabydos »

Personally I think the problem is the Egyptian mind set. Because some of them have made some easy [and probably enjoyable!] money by having sex with either women or men, they all tell their mates [we all know how they love to gossip and boast!]. As all foreigners are looked on in the same light [they are all rich and easy to con] all foreigners must also be a source of easy {and probably enjoyable!] money, so in their mind, any and all foreigners are there with bulging wallets/purses and "up for it". They need educating! I do not mean school, I mean social education. AND NO, I am not putting the blame entirely on the Egyptians, yes there are a few "predators" in Luxor who will do anything for cash, the foreigners who indulge in this type of thing must bare the lions share of the blame for the sexual harassment that is now prevalent in Luxor; for making the Egyptian youth aware of this easy [and probably enjoyable!] way to make money.
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Post by TonyC »

Kevininabydos wrote:They need educating! I do not mean school, I mean social education.
I agree there – that education has to come from their peers. I wonder if that was being alluded to in Glyphdoctor's comment...
we can't solve any problem until people are willing to admit there is one. So it is good to see the youth of Luxor finally facing their demons
...that the discussion/meeting she mentioned in the election thread is some move to tackle the issue of morality with Luxor's young men.

I take Kevin's point that young men might see sex as an enjoyable way to make easy money. Egyptian society imposes a strict code on them – it doesn't allow the interaction between boys and girls that western societies do. But young men anywhere in the world are always randy! Perhaps they see easy sex with "loose" foreigners as not compromising their Egyptian identities.
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Post by Who2 »

quote: that young men might see sex as an enjoyable..
really ? first they need to visit an optician, It'd turn me off sex for life.....8)
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Post by Barb »

Kevininabydos wrote:Personally I think the problem is the Egyptian mind set. Because some of them have made some easy [and probably enjoyable!] money by having sex with either women or men, they all tell their mates [we all know how they love to gossip and boast!]. As all foreigners are looked on in the same light [they are all rich and easy to con] all foreigners must also be a source of easy {and probably enjoyable!] money, so in their mind, any and all foreigners are there with bulging wallets/purses and "up for it". They need educating! I do not mean school, I mean social education. AND NO, I am not putting the blame entirely on the Egyptians, yes there are a few "predators" in Luxor who will do anything for cash, the foreigners who indulge in this type of thing must bare the lions share of the blame for the sexual harassment that is now prevalent in Luxor; for making the Egyptian youth aware of this easy [and probably enjoyable!] way to make money.
I agree Kevin. Contrary to a lot of peoples opinion of me, I am not against women having younger Egyptian husbands (I have quite a few friends here who are very happily married to their younger husbands) I am however against the women, and some men, who PAY to be with someone. It gives the Egyptian men the idea that we are ALL willing to do this. If these women stopped paying out then eventually the men will stop asking. Yes there is a lot of sexual harassment here but this is due partly to the fact that there is porn freely available on tv so they think that every foreign woman and man is very highly sexed and up for anything. I for one do not sleep around and have not had a relationship with any man for the last 2 years and am quite sick and tired of being tarred with the same brush as the women that come here purely to sleep with men. These are the ones that give us all a bad name.
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Post by Glyphdoctor »

I wasn't thinking of peer education at the time but I was going to say that peer pressure is important, both in keeping the practice going or getting rid of it. There has been social pressure to engage in this kind of behavior and some men are made to feel there is something wrong with them if they don't by their peers. When I first came to Luxor I will never forget meeting a guy with a beard who told me he had a Spanish girlfriend but he didn't want to have sex before marriage and he asked me if there was something wrong with him. I told him no, but I felt sorry for him that he felt that way but it was clear his peers were harassing him about it. And when Egyptian (and even some foreign) wives and mothers encourage men to do these things for money and turn a blind eye to it well then it just makes it even worse.

And it isn't just about sex. There's a competition for the flashiest car and the biggest villa and the easiest way to achieve this is through prostituting oneself to an older sugar momma or daddy.
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Post by Glyphdoctor »

Barb wrote:I for one do not sleep around and have not had a relationship with any man for the last 2 years and am quite sick and tired of being tarred with the same brush as the women that come here purely to sleep with men. These are the ones that give us all a bad name.
So if someone comes to Luxor and opens a business and also sleeps around with men it is OK?
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Post by Kevininabydos »

A bit of bad editing of Barbs post there Glyph, I definitely did not write that! Also how on earth did you come by:
"So if someone comes to Luxor and opens a business and also sleeps around with men it is OK?"
from the section of Barb's post that you quote?

Quote:
Barb wrote:
I for one do not sleep around and have not had a relationship with any man for the last 2 years and am quite sick and tired of being tarred with the same brush as the women that come here purely to sleep with men. These are the ones that give us all a bad name.
end of Quote.
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Post by DJKeefy »

Ive edited Glyphdoctor post to show the quote from Barb and not from Kevininabydos.
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Post by Glyphdoctor »

Kevininabydos wrote:A bit of bad editing of Barbs post there Glyph, I definitely did not write that! Also how on earth did you come by:
"So if someone comes to Luxor and opens a business and also sleeps around with men it is OK?"
from the section of Barb's post that you quote?
"purely to sleep with men."
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Post by Barb »

Glyphdoctor wrote:
Barb wrote:I for one do not sleep around and have not had a relationship with any man for the last 2 years and am quite sick and tired of being tarred with the same brush as the women that come here purely to sleep with men. These are the ones that give us all a bad name.
So if someone comes to Luxor and opens a business and also sleeps around with men it is OK?
Well Glyph if they are living here and have a business here they are not a tourist are they! But in answer to your question, No I dont think it is ok. That still gives the ones of us that dont do it a bad name.
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Post by Glyphdoctor »

There's lots of tourists with businesses in Luxor that is for sure.

However, it's just a matter of semantics, sex tourism is simply a form of prostitution.
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Post by Kevininabydos »

I still do not see any connection between Barb's post and your comment. Either you are in possession of information that others are not party to, ie: gossip, or you are reading something into the post that is simply not there. As you claim not to indulge in "gossip" I can only conclude it is the later, but then this would not be the first time that that has happened. :mrgreen:
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Post by Kevininabydos »

DJKeefy wrote:Ive edited Glyphdoctor post to show the quote from Barb and not from Kevininabydos.
Thank you Keefy. :rx:
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Post by Barb »

Glyphdoctor wrote:There's lots of tourists with businesses in Luxor that is for sure.

However, it's just a matter of semantics, sex tourism is simply a form of prostitution.

Im sorry but as far as I see it if someone has a business here then they are not a tourist. Tourists come here on holiday not to work. Glyph, you have a business in Cairo, does that mean that YOU are a tourist? As I dont have a business here and dont sleep around I have no idea why you have singled out my comment to have a go at.

Exactly, it is a form of prostitution , but if the men and women stop coming here and paying for sex then it would begin to diminish.
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Post by Glyphdoctor »

To clarify, there are a lot of people here on tourist visas working here illegally. I'm an Egyptian citizen by the way.

And I don't know what Barb does for a living, what kind of visa she has, or whatever so this is not about her, it's about the fact that she said coming to Egypt for prostitution purposes ONLY is wrong, all I was pointing out was that those who are here for prostitution may have other reasons to be here but that still doesn't make the prostitution OK.
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