I can't trust him anymore.

Discuss the problems that can occur in relationships with differing cultures and help overcome any barriers that exist.

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LovelyLadyLux
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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I'm only theorizing here and can only hold up to knowing personally 1 friend who got taken in.

IMO the acquisition of an OLDER women is a serious organized activity in Luxor that has been honed to a fine art. Friends and family are all in on the scam, emotions are played upon AND many of the women are very naïve & lonely which makes them easy targets. They're out of their element in a foreign country, they can't read the body language of the con artists, don't understand that these guys are out for the take and are good at their game. AND maybe maybe maybe (am sure the thought is in their mind) IF this works and if it gives them a happier and easier life and eases some of their lonliness then "why not"?

I think once the gigalo is able to convince the woman they really DO love her (and this is fed to the woman cleverly orchestrated by his friends & family) the next moves of divesting her of money happens fast. AND once the gigalo can get her emotionally unbalanced he is poised to strike and am sure he challenges her to prove her love to him by the only way she can which is to start giving.

The women would NOT do this in her own country cause in her own country there are not as many gigalos actively plying their trade BUT it does happen. Financial abuse of the elderly IS a horrific issue. It carries lots of shame and "I should have known better" so it isn't publicized nearly as much as it should be AND in her own country there are laws which enable her to go after the gigalo perpetrator and try and recoup.

All in all the Luxor Gigalo is a phenomena that happens and unfortunately many have been badly hurt and scarred as well as financially ruined. It is an organized business for the gigalos so there is no conscience or remorse. The gov't there obviously sanctions it as there are no laws (to my knowledge anyway) that sees this as a crime and no efforts have been made by law enforcement to curtail this blatant business of fleecing women tourists.

Why a 60 yr old or older woman would believe a 20 yr old man finds her attractive? Hmmmm....??? Same reasons a 60 yr old man accepts the attentions of a 20 yr old girl/woman 'cept WE are not as critical and we do not victimize the man. And I'd hazard in male circles they might even be slapping his back and offering congratulations on his score.

My last word - :tk :tk :tk Definitely a phenomena to mull over leaving more questions than answers. Thanks for sharing your personal story Dsaxelby. Best of luck to you (but I'll still say - run far, run fast, run FREE - although it sounds soon as your court is over you'll be able to totally BLOCK this fella for good)



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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by dsaxelby »

OK shoot me down now, but are we not set up for this sort romance...... the films depict various scenarios, Shirley Valentine popped into my head, but the love story's the adventure, uniqueness and speed of it all, you never see the long term endings, whereby they have to get 9-5 jobs, school runs etc normal life! (Bennu could describe this so much better). Anyway you get the drift, things we have watched all our lives and never experienced. You look in the mirror at 50 yes RS what do you see....

Probably worked hard all your life, raised the kids, kept the home and usually tried to stay married, where was the romance, the spark etc..... For some people they met their partner and lived happily ever after, for many that did not happen and then your old..... and you know you will only get older..... (some speculation here as I am young :D ).

Kids are off your hands what have you to look forward to..... I know, some hot young foreigner (not so in my case :( ). Says the words you wanted to hear all your life, paints a picture of your life together and on top of that you can help his poor family, oooh your useful again. In the bargain it's not on your doorstep so your neighbours cannot see. Also everyone else is doing it :lol:

Remembering also that women sexually peek at around 40 and men at 18............

Pretty sure they know it will not last forever, but what else have they...... (rather a lot of speculation here, so jump in anyone). They would rather live the dream than reality perhaps.
It is what it is.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by Ruby Slippers »

Does divorce knock your self-confidence so much that it leaves you vulnerable or needing the reassurance that you are lovable? Could the same be said for widowhood? (I really did mean it when I said I wanted to understand the psyche!)

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by dsaxelby »

Ruby Slippers wrote:Does divorce knock your self-confidence so much that it leaves you vulnerable or needing the reassurance that you are lovable? Could the same be said for widowhood? (I really did mean it when I said I wanted to understand the psyche!)
Don't know personally divorced 9 years ago, uummmm I do not think it so much self-confidence or perhaps for some it is, but a feeling, lets be honest most of these relationships should have been holiday romances, amazing memories blah blah and I do believe lots of women do this and go home again.

Thinking about it, it may best years of your life etc... left for a younger model :sd some one makes you feel like a woman again, and a beautiful woman, when was last time someone looked into your eyes and made your knees weak.....(thinking hard here, it's been awhile lol)

Is it lovable or like a woman :ni: Would add also professional woman who have run everything sometimes just want to hand over control, and be a woman :o
It is what it is.

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carrie
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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by carrie »

I can relate to that, Egyptian men can be very charming, seemingly very protective, they have the patience of a saint till they get you hooked. What I can't get over though is so many are warned by people they trust and go ahead and ignore that warning. They are going to be the exception to the rule.
Why not get married why not spend a fortune on them have a good time but don't start complaining when it all goes wrong.
A lot of decent Egyptian men would like to marry foreigners, saves on the cost of a wedding, providing a home etc but then the question of children arises I don't think anyone realises how much pressure Egyptians are put under to provide grandchildren, they may protest that they can't afford them, no matter Allah will provide. Then their friends who know they are married to a European, Where's your car? Can you lend me?
Even with the best intentions on both sides it rarely works, I have honestly seen so much of it, I just thank heavens that I was introduced to the right people when I first came to live here that educated me in the ways of Luxor.
Have fun ladies spend what you can afford but never never take it to be a serious relationship.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by BENNU »

carrie wrote:Egyptian men can be very charming, seemingly very protective
- and that feels good until you realise that it comes with a price!

Egyptian men who know me say: "You are so strong, :sd you don't need a man!", meaning it would be a waste of time to even think about it. I have come too far to pay for a protecting (= controlling) pair of arms, how (helplessly) "feminine" it may make you feel.

I do miss a man in my life, but there are so many other ways that I can spend my money. :witch:

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I'm probably not the best to answer your question RS cause I've spent LOTS of time thinking and thinking and mulling to say nothing of throwing in academic research. I'd say by way of generalizations:

For the guy - he was born into poverty and will probably live and die in poverty along with a life of bone grinding back breaking labour. To find and woo a woman he has got NOTHING to lose and everything to gain so once his 'woman' is targeted he is going to be like the proverbial 'sh*t on a stick' to shake off. He has also been raised in a social milieu of women who GIVE him everything they have possible, pander to his every whim and who he values at less than the price of hard bread he lines up several times a day to have handed out to him. He is told he really only has to LOVE Allah as LOVE & arranged marriages just don't go hand in hand. He can be sexually gratified by his Egyptian wife whenever however (and she better damn not move a muscle while he groans and sweats)......ok maybe getting a bit too base and graphic but am sure this guy watches western TV and has an imagination so what his 'good and proper' Egyptian wife doesn't provide his vivid imagination will and since there are NO sexual outlets available in Egypt to young men other than the Palm sisters testosterone rules the tongue and golden words flow.

For the women - well even if she IS married she will have less than no ability to control her husband if he is out there plying his trade as a gigalo. Depending on where her husband is in the hierarchy of family will also determine her own status & daily workload in life which IS probably poverty and a daily grind. Am not sure LOVE factors into her psyche on a daily basis either. IF her marriage contract was a good one she'll have security and the husband will have to provide for her for life so how he does that it probably typically of little concern to her.

US - well - western women - why do western women get sucked in by young Gigalos?? Could probably write a book on this about all the whys wherefores and how comes. I don't think divorce or widowhood makes a woman more or less vulnerable to a the advances of a younger man. I think it is more the shift from a daily ho-hum existence combined with a bit of loneliness, a bit of boredom, having financial means, seeing yourself as being useful again and seeing (even if only in your mind's eye) the prospect of having something better than you have now. How many people have been taken in by Ponzi schemes? Is it the greed factor that makes them put up their life savings in the hope of getting something better in the future? I think the same type of parameters are in play. Lots of factors all combine to come into play.

And then we can all look at the theory of loving to hate victims - COZ - we all know WE would never do something like that ;) ;) ;)

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carrie
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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by carrie »

Bennu that's why I said seemingly you know it isn't being protective it's control. As a single woman here and I know you are too don't you get a little tired of everyone asking how do you manage on your own, don't you need a man to take care of you protect you. Women, Egyptian, lead such confined sheltered lives here on the whole, only when they marry are they allowed any kind of freedom and that is only the amount the husband allows.
Roll on the day when the Egyptian women are truely emancipated.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by BENNU »

carrie wrote:Bennu that's why I said seemingly you know it isn't being protective it's control
That's why I underlined it.
carrie wrote: As a single woman here and I know you are too don't you get a little tired of everyone asking how do you manage on your own, don't you need a man to take care of you protect you.
Not everyone:
BENNU wrote:Egyptian men who know me say: "You are so strong, :sd you don't need a man!"

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I've sometimes pondered this aspect of the Egyptian man/Western woman phenomena - In Egypt when a guy gets a wife contracts are drawn up. If he fails sufficiently in living up to his contractual obligations, in providing for his wife his entire family can suffer shame, community embarrassment etc. Now, he CAN beat on his wife but if his abuse towards her crosses an onerous enough line that forces HER family to do something as shame/embarrassment is now falling on them HER male family relatives could literally beat the poop out of her husband. Course he'd probably then beat her back etc but the point is ALL parties know this. They have extremely formalized lines that are never crossed because THEN what they have to do to save face can be ridiculous!!! The killing of one family member can literally start WW3 with another family so tolerance becomes extremely high, non-interference in anothers life (re: wife beating etc) is normative. No such thing as back down or out gracefully (which I personally think leads to the ability to scream in high gear at the drop of a hat). You can never appear weak.

That being said - Are we naïve enough to think that Egyptians don't know that WE Western Women do not come with an army of male relatives ready to hold them accountable for all they do to us? Means Egyptian males do not have to play by the same rules towards us as they do towards their Egyptian wives (course I'd NEVER trade my place in life with that of a Egyptian woman and if re-incarnation rules I hope and pray I do not come back as an Egyptian bride!!!) and their own families actually praise them for being superb bargainers. For being able to produce and support them (at our expense).

There is no downside to the Egyptian male trying to and/or blatantly taking advantage of western women. If all else fails I'm sure they can argue they're following in the ways of the Prophet Muhammed whose most beloved and first wife Khadijah was much older than the Prophet and essentially gave him her fortune she inherited when her first husband passed.

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carrie
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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by carrie »

Just had an email from a friend. It was a jokey thing but very apt.
When that tingly loving feeling enters your body
and you see someone you fancy
Common sense flies out.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by Ruby Slippers »

Ladies, thanks for replying so eloquently on this subject. You all sound as though your lives are very much sorted, and you are in total control. You have all given me added insights into the Egyptian Gigolo phenomenon which I hadn't thought of - and a deeper understanding.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by dsaxelby »

Posted this today on my fb thought it appropriate :D

DEAR PAST ME,
You were stupid. Just beyond
stupid. I can't explain how
stupid you were.

DEAR PRESENT ME,
Your still stupid. Just not as
stupid as you were before.

DEAR FUTURE ME
Don't be stupid.
It is what it is.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by BENNU »

dsaxelby wrote:...are we not set up for this sort romance...... the films depict various scenarios, Shirley Valentine popped into my head, but the love story's the adventure, uniqueness and speed of it all, you never see the long term endings, whereby they have to get 9-5 jobs, school runs etc normal life!
:lv
As young girls we used to read some little black and white romantic cartoons with beautiful women falling in love with handsome men. They were translated from English and the heroes names were always Mark, John or Phillip. If the guy had not shaved, had long hair or a motorcycle, you knew that he was a good looking :P bad guy and that he would not be the one whose lips on the last page would meet hers in a long, passionate kiss, but that in this month's issue there would be a few pages of drama. We really thought that was what it was all about: If you kissed a guy, he was yours forever, it was a matter of finding him, get his attention and live happily ever after. No one told us that the happy ending was really the beginning of who knows what.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Speaking generally Women genetically seem to be programmed to be nurturers so we nurture. I think some of us take on the challenge of fixing the bad guy, curing the sick the ill the downtrodden all to our own self sacrificing detriment. We see guys living in poverty and working hard so our hearts go out to them and 'Ka ching' the Egyptian Gigalo has hooked us. I do think generally women in these modern timesare more able to put our own needs first but I wouldn't want to entirely bet the farm on this. Romance novels spell it all out very well.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by carrie »

Two days ago I went swimming and met a friend at the pool, when we had been there for about an hour this woman came in with her teenage son and "husband". She looked at my friend and I as if to say look what I have got bet you haven't got one. Admittedly he was a nice looking guy with a great bod, enjoyed the view butI just felt like saying no dear I haven't got one dont want one and they are ten a penny if the truth were told. Another one bites the dust.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by dsaxelby »

Well B when I kissed my frog, he turned into a toad........ pretty sure that is not how it was in the books :lol:
It is what it is.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

@ Dsaxelby - you kissed a frog and voila a toad ...... IMO you took the chance. You stepped out of your comfort area and DID something.

For years women were criticized for not being aggressive, for not going after what they wanted, for being the Susie homemaker and the "little woman." You took a chance AND from all you've said here you've paid the price, are still paying and soon will zero out the bill. You took a chance, paid the price and have said it as it is. That is refreshing that you didn't blame the rising of the moon or anything or anybody else on what happened. Good on you that you tried to secure your own happiness. Sorry to know it went south.

As for the woman with the young hubby at the pool - well - hard to say what she is up to parading around a young 'un with another young 'un for a daddy. BUT if this is what is making her happy right now - then that is cool so long as she takes responsibility for all the decisions she has made re: this Winter/Spring relationship. BUT it is only when all goes south and then blame gets thrown everywhere except where it SHOULD be placed - that gets tiresome.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by Dusak »

LovelyLadyLux wrote:@ Dsaxelby - you kissed a frog and voila a toad ...... IMO you took the chance. You stepped out of your comfort area and DID something.

For years women were criticized for not being aggressive, for not going after what they wanted, for being the Susie homemaker and the "little woman." You took a chance AND from all you've said here you've paid the price, are still paying and soon will zero out the bill. You took a chance, paid the price and have said it as it is. That is refreshing that you didn't blame the rising of the moon or anything or anybody else on what happened. Good on you that you tried to secure your own happiness. Sorry to know it went south.

As for the woman with the young hubby at the pool - well - hard to say what she is up to parading around a young 'un with another young 'un for a daddy. BUT if this is what is making her happy right now - then that is cool so long as she takes responsibility for all the decisions she has made re: this Winter/Spring relationship. BUT it is only when all goes south and then blame gets thrown everywhere except where it SHOULD be placed - that gets tiresome
Never a truer word spoken. :cg
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: I can't trust him anymore.

Post by Noor100 »

Dusak wrote:These loveless support victims are useless, ignorant half wits that allow their labia to rule their thoughts. They are easily manipulated human beings that live for the moment blindly going where other, more intelligent humans would not tread. They deserve no sympathy. They continually refuse to see what is before their eyes, refuse advice from those that have trodden the same pathways. They deserve to loose whatever they have lost and do not have any rights to utter one word to others concerning the matter and I for one grow tiered of the relentless discussions concerning their level of stupidity.
Dusak you have no sympathy for anyone and you don't know any of these women so how can you make such judgements? I myself met an Egyptian man, younger than myself and I married him!! We are still together 8 years later and still happy together so not all relationships are bad there are lots of good ones too.

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