Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Discuss the problems that can occur in relationships with differing cultures and help overcome any barriers that exist.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Scottishtourist »

carrie wrote:ST I hope you don't think I have called you immature, evil or anything else, I profoundly disagree with your views and whatever the arguments you put up will continue to do so. I could debate with you till the sun fails to shine neither of us would change our stance. Let us two at least agree to disagree.
Oh Carrie!
Believe me when I say that I would never take offence or fall out with anyone who disagrees with me.

I just find it a bit sad really that people can abandon their faith or call on others to do so just because they have had a "bad"experience with it along the way.

The one thing I notice on reading the forum though,is that no-one ever calls on Muslims to abandon Islam because they disagree with the horrors being perpetrated by groups such as ISIL,Boko Haram,etc.

How many Muslims have given up on their faith due to the actions of these so-called "believers?"
I'd think there are very few.
Cos,they too look at the bigger picture and realise their faith is centred on their GOD...and not on the actions of people who abuse others in HIS name.

Is Christianity and Catholicism in particular just a softer target to criticize and condemn?



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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by newcastle »

Scottishtourist wrote:
carrie wrote:ST I hope you don't think I have called you immature, evil or anything else, I profoundly disagree with your views and whatever the arguments you put up will continue to do so. I could debate with you till the sun fails to shine neither of us would change our stance. Let us two at least agree to disagree.
Oh Carrie!
Believe me when I say that I would never take offence or fall out with anyone who disagrees with me.

I just find it a bit sad really that people can abandon their faith or call on others to do so just because they have had a "bad"experience with it along the way.

The one thing I notice on reading the forum though,is that no-one ever calls on Muslims to abandon Islam because they disagree with the horrors being perpetrated by groups such as ISIL,Boko Haram,etc.

How many Muslims have given up on their faith due to the actions of these so-called "believers?"
I'd think there are very few.
Cos,they too look at the bigger picture and realise their faith is centred on their GOD...and not on the actions of people who abuse others in HIS name.

Is Christianity and Catholicism in particular just a softer target to criticize and condemn?
There's a very good reason why you won't hear people calling on muslims to abandon islam (apart from the general futility). Such behaviour carries a very high criminal penalty under the laws of Egypt !

In some islamic states it will get you executed.

I believe there are similar laws regarding the coptic faith but can't be bothered to look them up.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Scottishtourist »

So once again I reiterate, newcastle.

Christianity and Catholicism are the softer targets!
You feel comfortable labelling it as "indoctrination"and "hogwash"

But you ain't got the guts to speak about Islam in the same way?Because you accept the rules,culture and religion of the country you are living in!

Well..stop having a go at the Catholic Church!
You may disagree with it's teachings..but who has ever heard of a "radical"Catholic?

You may proclaim "live and let live"...so stop narking and let me follow my peaceful religion..whether you agree with it or not!

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by newcastle »

Scottishtourist wrote:So once again I reiterate, newcastle.

Christianity and Catholicism are the softer targets!
You feel comfortable labelling it as "indoctrination"and "hogwash"

But you ain't got the guts to speak about Islam in the same way?Because you accept the rules,culture and religion of the country you are living in!

Well..stop having a go at the Catholic Church!
You may disagree with it's teachings..but who has ever heard of a "radical"Catholic?

You may proclaim "live and let live"...so stop narking and let me follow my peaceful religion..whether you agree with it or not!
I think you may be getting over-excited! Maybe you are not as "secure" in your beliefs as you try to make out? (Please don't take this an an invitation for another diatribe on the wonders of your particular faith...enough already! )

If you read the posts you will see my reference to all religions being "indoctrinated'. That's not my opinion...it's fact. Religion is taught.

Nowhere will you find my using the word "hogwash".

You will also not find me focusing on any particular religion...my views arise from a disbelief in god or gods. Religion obviously has no purpose for one who does not believe in god.

I don't regard it as my business to dissuade anyone from their religious beliefs. It's up to them to agree or disagree with MY viewpoint. If, notwithstanding what I and many others have to say on the entire concept of gods & religion, they still adhere to their beliefs...that's their business. It's called freedom of belief....or in my case disbelief.

P.S. "Radical Catholics" ? Mmmm...let me think....how about Mary I. Of course not so many around these days, possibly because we now have secular laws so you can't burn heretics....however much you might wish to :lol:

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Scottishtourist »

newcastle wrote:
Scottishtourist wrote:

If you read the posts you will see my reference to all religions being "indoctrinated'. That's not my opinion...it's fact. Religion is taught.

Well of course it's taught!
How the hell else would you expect us to know about it?
That ain't "indoctrination."

It's called "education!"

Believe what you want and do no harm!Where the hell does that guidance come from?It doesn't just suddenly appear on trees!There's got to be some guidance somewhere along the line to live your life by these standards!

I believe that in your background you have had religion.You have maybe disregarded it and chose your own path..but the one thing you did was to question it!

You could not have done this by your own accord!
Something,somewhere has caused you to question religion and you have chosen not to believe!
Well,fair play to you..but don't criticize others who have chosen the different path!

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by newcastle »

Well ST....at least you concede that religion is taught.

I imagine you don't believe everything that is "taught"....surely you make your mind up by questioning, rationalising? This is where religion falls down because - sorry if this is repetitive - some of its teaching is plain nonsense. (i'm assuming hereabouts that you've given up on Father Christmas & the Tooth Fairy ?)

Don't just take my word for it (as if !).....ask any muslim what he/she thinks of the resurrection of Jesus and all that follows. They don't believe it !!

The difference between religions is, for me, the difference between different versions of a fairy tale

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Scottishtourist »

So what do Muslims believe about the resurrection of Jesus?
From the ones I've spoken with,they believe he is a prophet..I don't know if they believe in his resurrection or not!
The discussions have never gone that far!
But I can honestly say that the educated ones I have spoken with have never disregarded the discussion as nonsense!They have listened and shown respect.

But there are similarities between us.A great flood,Maryam(Mary)the mother.A belief in a heaven and hell.The archangels Michael and Gabriel.
I've never studied the Koran,nor have I studied the bible!Cos,for Catholics,it's the Catechism.

So in simple layman's terms,can anyone enlighten me..cos I'm genuinely interested.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Brian Yare »

A catholic who never studied the bible? The catechism is little more than the creed. A few unsupported signposts.

I no longer consider myself a Christian, but have read the Bible more than once.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Scottishtourist »

Catholics do not do bible study Mr Yare.
We listen to it's readings via the Sunday sermons in the Mass..but we do not have "Sunday"school as such and study it intensely.
The Catechism is our doctrine..so we do not feel the need to study the bible!
Our guidance comes from another book!

I personally prefer to listen to smaller snippets of it and hear the priest's interpretation of it's message.
It's heavy going to study...so I'll stick with Terry Pratchett and his fantasies,rather than bamboozle myself with reading a heavy duty book and trying to analyze it!

Why would anyone want to read it?
Is it through boredom,nothing else to entertain you?

Or is it merely to disagree with it and accuse others of their ignorance with regards to it?

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Brian Yare »

So the Holy Bible means nothing to you? You might as well be into Wicca... I have never met a Catholic (with a capital C) who did not use the Bible as their main source of inspiration/faith. Sounds to me as though you follow a very watered down version - the Catechism. Try reading the whole book and then reconsider your faith. '-)

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Zooropa »

Scottishtourist wrote:Catholics do not do bible study Mr Yare.
We listen to it's readings via the Sunday sermons in the Mass..but we do not have "Sunday"school as such and study it intensely.
The Catechism is our doctrine..so we do not feel the need to study the bible!
Our guidance comes from another book!

I personally prefer to listen to smaller snippets of it and hear the priest's interpretation of it's message.
It's heavy going to study...so I'll stick with Terry Pratchett and his fantasies,rather than bamboozle myself with reading a heavy duty book and trying to analyze it!

Why would anyone want to read it?
Is it through boredom,nothing else to entertain you?

Or is it merely to disagree with it and accuse others of their ignorance with regards to it?
Words should, but don't fail me - as I said in a previous post - so many people of faith haven't even read the damned book!

Im sorry, with all due respects, and at the risk of being rude, your even more of a sheep than I thought!

I think youre right with Terry Pratchett though, his books are just like the bible - completely fictional but far more entertaining!

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Zooropa »

Scottishtourist wrote:So what do Muslims believe about the resurrection of Jesus?
From the ones I've spoken with,they believe he is a prophet..I don't know if they believe in his resurrection or not!
The discussions have never gone that far!
But I can honestly say that the educated ones I have spoken with have never disregarded the discussion as nonsense!They have listened and shown respect.

But there are similarities between us.A great flood,Maryam(Mary)the mother.A belief in a heaven and hell.The archangels Michael and Gabriel.
I've never studied the Koran,nor have I studied the bible!Cos,for Catholics,it's the Catechism.

So in simple layman's terms,can anyone enlighten me..cos I'm genuinely interested.
And doesn't that make you suspicious?

No - I recall ive asked you that before.

Similarities?

Almost every religion is almost identical in the basic facts.

All born of a virgin, there coming was foretold, 12 disciples, died, resurrected, a lot of them even share the same birthday, which by the way has nothing to do with the day they were born on, 25th December is the first day that the sun, having been at its lowest point starts to rise again.

Even the ancient Egyptian story has many similarities!

Isnt it funny how all these gods have the same story?

Must be a miracle of divine proportions!

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Zooropa »

Scottishtourist wrote:
newcastle wrote:
Scottishtourist wrote:

If you read the posts you will see my reference to all religions being "indoctrinated'. That's not my opinion...it's fact. Religion is taught.

Well of course it's taught!
How the hell else would you expect us to know about it?
That ain't "indoctrination."

It's called "education!"

Believe what you want and do no harm!Where the hell does that guidance come from?It doesn't just suddenly appear on trees!There's got to be some guidance somewhere along the line to live your life by these standards!

You've been told this before ST, the golden rule - do unto others etc, is far far older than most religions, not killing is not only sensible on a moral level - there is Darwinian utility to it as well, people are far more useful and in a better position to aid you if there not dead.


I believe that in your background you have had religion.You have maybe disregarded it and chose your own path..but the one thing you did was to question it!

You could not have done this by your own accord!
Something,somewhere has caused you to question religion and you have chosen not to believe!
Well,fair play to you..but don't criticize others who have chosen the different path!
Last edited by Zooropa on Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Robbo70 »

Wow, im an athiest but I studied the bible. Ive also read the quran, the torra (?), discussed buddism with monks in sri lanka and hinduism with Indian friends. I couldn't argue why I dont believe if I didnt understand the teachings of those who do. I will never insult any beliefs or ridicule them, its just my personal choice. Im amazed though as a practicing catholic church goer, you have not read the main manual
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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Brian Yare »

I seemed to have opened a bag of worms here! Such fun!

I've discussed communism in Moscow, but the locals had generally not read "the manual" there. They had just been indoctrinated as our ST seems to have been!

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Zooropa »

Education is where you are given the facts, and pay careful attention to the word facts - that means provable bits of information not faith based beliefs, which you then use to reach your own conclusions.

Indoctrination is where you are told something not provable or verifiable as a fact.

A good example of this was in Japan, where every child from the moment it could comprehend was told that the only reason for their being was to be in the service of the emperor - nothing else mattered and to die in his service was not only expected but also a honour to do so and that surrender was the worst thing you could ever contemplate let alone actually do.

Tell a young child something often and forceful enough and they will believe it.

That's why only a few Japanese soldiers surrendered on each of the islands that the allies attacked.

Do you think that if they had been taught that before they picked up a gun or thought about killing themselves that the best thing to do first would be to evaluate the merit of doing so before reaching a decision that all but a few would have weighed up the pros and cons before deciding to die?

No - and that's the difference between indoctrination and education.

The only reason religion has survived is because of indoctrination, if it was just education religion would have long since been the preverbal do do.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Zooropa »

Robbo70 wrote:Wow, im an athiest but I studied the bible. Ive also read the quran, the torra (?), discussed buddism with monks in sri lanka and hinduism with Indian friends. I couldn't argue why I dont believe if I didnt understand the teachings of those who do. I will never insult any beliefs or ridicule them, its just my personal choice. Im amazed though as a practicing catholic church goer, you have not read the main manual
Its very, very common Robbo, I have religious friends who haven't read so much as a verse.

They argue the point to us based on the teachings of a book that we have read and they haven't!

Incredible!

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Scottishtourist »

Good God!Why would I want to read the Bible?
I really don't see it's significance to my being!

It would take too much time and I've been "indoctrinated"enough with regards to my existence!

Why don't all you Atheists take a leaf outa your own book?

Read the Bible,read the Koran,study the tenets of Judaism.Look at the Kama Sutra.Go embrace paganism and hug a tree!
Would any of these really satisfy you?

No..you'd still be rabbiting on about getting no spiritual enhancements,no matter what you did!

Just what the hell is your problem here?You want scientific explanation?Well,go seek it!There's probably plenty of info on internet to satisfy your desire in finding it!

P.s Z..nothing makes me suspicious anymore..cos I've reached stage in my life where I consider it all to be part of a much bigger plan!Eternal existence through the love and repect I have for a GOD.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Scottishtourist »

P.s..why are all you Atheists reading the bible?

And Z,special question for you!Who's Darwin?lol! x

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Zooropa »

Scottishtourist wrote:P.s..why are all you Atheists reading the bible?

And Z,special question for you!Who's Darwin?lol! x
Well Robbo touched on why we have read the bible - struck a cord with me actually.

Just about the only useful thing my father taught me was the following:

"If you are going to disagree with something at least pay it the respect of understanding it first".

Darwin, oh don't you worry your pretty little head about him, just another one of us fools! x
Last edited by Zooropa on Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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