Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Discuss the problems that can occur in relationships with differing cultures and help overcome any barriers that exist.

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Brian Yare
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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Brian Yare »

Zooropa wrote:Well quite, I hope the heavy scent of irony I was using could be smelt?
With a steely result, no doubt.



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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Scottishtourist »

What's the only thing worse than a "born again"Christian?
It's a "born again"Muslim!

My friend had a brother who worked in tourism.He had his share of "sex"in those days!
As far as I know he was "married"to German women at least three times.He also "experimented" with males,German men and other tourists.

He's now the biggest "pain in the arse"(literally)you could ever meet!

Maybe 10 years ago,he escorted me and sis to one of those Luxor discos.Think it was the "Sinouhe"or something like that!
He'd totally changed!He used to enjoy himself,but now he had "seen the light!"His innocent dancing and chit chat was now "evil"in some way.

He'd become "born again"and had the cheek to remark that I was dancing "suggestively"with Egyptian men!

Well...I wasn't the one who had changed!
My religion doesn't forbid dancing with the opposite sex or drinking alcohol.I was doing nothing whatsoever that I hadn't done before!
But apparantly he was!...so it was much easier to blame me and other tourists for "his"failures..rather than himself!

He justified his past actions by saying he was "weak."
Well in my opinion,that's just an excuse for "bad"behaviour!

He spoke about Christianity with such venom,the attitudes of the women,their behaviour,their dress-sense,etc.

He's now married to an Egyptian girl.She adores him and has given him children.

So..how can Egyptians/Muslims change so radically?
Or do they just "grow-up?"
Where(in some cases)is their tolerance?

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by newcastle »

Be grateful that at least he's abandoned his gigolo ways :lol:

The sanctimonious attitude of some people (and it's not uncommon in those who "find" religion later in life) can be irksome....but there are worse character traits.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Scottishtourist »

newcastle wrote:Be grateful that at least he's abandoned his gigolo ways :lol:

The sanctimonious attitude of some people (and it's not uncommon in those who "find" religion later in life) can be irksome....but there are worse character traits.
Are there?
He's become the "religious"one!

He's become the proverbial "pain in the arse!"


He's the one who has "changed"...not me!

Well,what a credit!He's abandoned his "Gigalo"ways.
Had he been a true Muslim and truly believed in his faith..then he wouln't have to abandon any ideas or philosophy.
He shouldn't have even had them in the first place!

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Zooropa »

Another reason why I don't like religion is the "rules"

My religion allows or does not allow.

The only rules I want to be bound by is the rule of law.

Anybody else trying to tell me what to do can do one.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Glyphdoctor »

So him being a good wife and father to his kids and not going out and drinking and dancing with other women, which could lead to "less innocent" activities that could be harmful to himself and his family, you get ****** off about it?

He's not single anymore, he has responsibilities now. Even an atheist who grows up and matures would give up these activities, once he is married and has kids. If it is his religion that motivates him to act in an age and status appropriate way, so what? Is he doing something bad with his own life?

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by shebs1964 »

No, that is not the problem. Someone with his responsibilities should change whatever religion or non religion there are. What is annoying, is just cause he has changed he thinks everyone else should to.
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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Robbo70 »

In fairness ST, there are plenty of born again Christians who become 'holier than thou' on their re-discovery of their faith. I also know a few Muslims who were, shall we say, a tad wild in their single days, who grew up, got married and become God fearing and more dedicated to their faith.

Obviously, like Zoo, being an atheist I am not bound by such rules. I just go by what's right and wrong. Before I got married, I was a little wilder and then I had to change my behaviour in respect of the marriage.

Live and let live dear... its the athiests way :D
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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Glyphdoctor »

You do realize that Muslim-atheist and Christian-atheist marriages aren't recognized either? Maybe pointing out the obvious.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Zooropa »

Not sleeping around because your religion forbids it, doesn't strike me as being the best reason not to do it.

It does somewhat suggest that if it were permitted then you would do it.

Its like when someone points out all the good deeds that have been done in the name of their god/religion, I don't know whether to smirk or grimace - is that the best and only motivation they have for doing the good deed?

Again, suggests that you wouldn't do it otherwise.

I like to think that when Atheists do good deeds our motivations come from much more the right place.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by carrie »

There are many here on the west bank who have seen the error of their ways after marrying and having children. Quite often it has nothing to do with religion but their reputation, they come to realise that their behaviour will reflect on their children. When they come to marry the prospective groom/brides parents don't want them to marry into an urespectable family.
One man told me that a certain woman on the East had a terrible reputation but her two girls where the best girls you could wish for but it was doubtful if they would ever marry because of the reputation of the mother.
Easy here to lose your reputation very difficult to regain it.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Robbo70 »

Glyphdoctor wrote:You do realize that Muslim-atheist and Christian-atheist marriages aren't recognized either? Maybe pointing out the obvious.
I do yes, but because I don't follow the religious side of the marriage, should I not still be bound by what is right and wrong behaviour within the marriage?

Our embassy marriage states me as a Christian as the embassy did not recognise 'none' or 'athiest' in the question of religion. As I am christened and confirmed origionally as Church of England, I had little choice but to go with that, or not go through with the marriage at all. Therefore, technically in Egypt our marriage, Muslim - Christian is very much recognised. I don't think anyone gives a toss in the UK :lol:
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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by newcastle »

Zooropa wrote:Not sleeping around because your religion forbids it, doesn't strike me as being the best reason not to do it.

It does somewhat suggest that if it were permitted then you would do it.

Its like when someone points out all the good deeds that have been done in the name of their god/religion, I don't know whether to smirk or grimace - is that the best and only motivation they have for doing the good deed?

Again, suggests that you wouldn't do it otherwise.

I like to think that when Atheists do good deeds our motivations come from much more the right place.
Quite right!

The suggestion that religion gives you a 'moral compass" that would otherwise be missing is laughable.

And the wicked deeds perpetrated in the name of religion are legion.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by newcastle »

Robbo70 wrote:
Glyphdoctor wrote:You do realize that Muslim-atheist and Christian-atheist marriages aren't recognized either? Maybe pointing out the obvious.
I do yes, but because I don't follow the religious side of the marriage, should I not still be bound by what is right and wrong behaviour within the marriage?

Our embassy marriage states me as a Christian as the embassy did not recognise 'none' or 'athiest' in the question of religion. As I am christened and confirmed origionally as Church of England, I had little choice but to go with that, or not go through with the marriage at all. Therefore, technically in Egypt our marriage, Muslim - Christian is very much recognised. I don't think anyone gives a toss in the UK :lol:
I assume that marriages in Egypt involving a partner who is not in any sense of the word "religious" are not uncommon....but they opt for one of the 3 prescribed options for reasons too obvious to mention.

The non-religious partner will be unconcerned by this "deception" whilst the other, if actually an adherent, is presumably happy to live with the consequences and explain his/her actions to the Almighty in the hereafter.

However,it wouldn't surprise me to hear that there have been cases where a marriage is declared invalid after such a deception comes to light.....with possibly unpleasant repercussions for both parties.

Another reason for getting rid of this nonsense of declaring your religion on bureaucratic documents. I thought the abolition of this was in the pipeline for some forms though not, probably, marriage

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Zooropa »

newcastle wrote:
Robbo70 wrote:
Glyphdoctor wrote:You do realize that Muslim-atheist and Christian-atheist marriages aren't recognized either? Maybe pointing out the obvious.
I do yes, but because I don't follow the religious side of the marriage, should I not still be bound by what is right and wrong behaviour within the marriage?

Our embassy marriage states me as a Christian as the embassy did not recognise 'none' or 'athiest' in the question of religion. As I am christened and confirmed origionally as Church of England, I had little choice but to go with that, or not go through with the marriage at all. Therefore, technically in Egypt our marriage, Muslim - Christian is very much recognised. I don't think anyone gives a toss in the UK :lol:
I assume that marriages in Egypt involving a partner who is not in any sense of the word "religious" are not uncommon....but they opt for one of the 3 prescribed options for reasons too obvious to mention.

The non-religious partner will be unconcerned by this "deception" whilst the other, if actually an adherent, is presumably happy to live with the consequences and explain his/her actions to the Almighty in the hereafter.



However,it wouldn't surprise me to hear that there have been cases where a marriage is declared invalid after such a deception comes to light.....with possibly unpleasant repercussions for both parties.

Another reason for getting rid of this nonsense of declaring your religion on bureaucratic documents. I thought the abolition of this was in the pipeline for some forms though not, probably, marriage
Ive actually spent ten minutes trying to come up with a more useless piece of information to ask for other than what god you worship.

And ive failed.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Glyphdoctor »

newcastle wrote:
I assume that marriages in Egypt involving a partner who is not in any sense of the word "religious" are not uncommon....but they opt for one of the 3 prescribed options for reasons too obvious to mention.

The non-religious partner will be unconcerned by this "deception" whilst the other, if actually an adherent, is presumably happy to live with the consequences and explain his/her actions to the Almighty in the hereafter.

However,it wouldn't surprise me to hear that there have been cases where a marriage is declared invalid after such a deception comes to light.....with possibly unpleasant repercussions for both parties.
As I understand it, the law recognizes whatever religion someone states themselves to be, even if they are lying. It's not supposed to be the judge's right to question what someone says they are.

And they tightened a loophole some years ago where anyone could bring a case against anyone for apostasy, but now allegedly only the prosecutors can file cases like this.

However, there have been cases where people's interpretation of Islam has led them to be declared apostates and sentenced to prison for apostasy, or forcibly divorced.

As for Christians, there have been Christians who turned atheist sentenced to prison as well.

As for those who are happy to accept the consequences, well that's exactly what people like ST's friend do. They engage in gay sex, marry atheists or five at a time etc. or women old enough to be their grandmother's for the financial benefits/visas/whatever, but at any time they could settle down and decide that they want to follow the straight and narrow and put that life behind them. I kind of wonder too whether they choose unacceptable relationships simply because they can easily justify discarding it when they don't need it anymore, religiously or culturally. It's probably a lot easier to throw away a relationship you think is wrong and unaccepted than one you consider right and accepted by society.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Glyphdoctor »

As for Carrie's story, I have several female friends who are successful university professors, but they have never married and still live with their parents even in their 40s. Primarily because they got their PhDs abroad and lived abroad alone, and this makes them suspect in men's eyes.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Dusak »

No matter what religion a person is, they all sin in one way or another, but they all find the words to justify them when it is observed by another. Some have to change their so called wicked ways, as highlighted by ST, to reintegrate themselves back into the section of society that they require, but even that requirement is only to better themselves, not because they have suddenly 'seen the error of their ways or the brilliance of the light that now shineth upon them.' They now have to be seen as cleansed of all past sins but in all concerned, the mind is still active, they would never miss the opportunity to benefit by others that now trust them. A so called born again anything usually turns into the proverbial pain in the arse. The forget their own past transgressions while they constantly preach against and talk of yours. A born again none smoker is just as worse, attempting to send you on guilt trip every time you light up.We constantly live with and surround ourselves with false profits, ourselves.
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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by Glyphdoctor »

It seems the government has started a crackdown on atheists since last night with a raid on a cafe that was considered a gathering place for atheists who were spreading their ideas.

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Re: Egypt: The forbidden love of interfaith romances

Post by newcastle »

Apostasy, in the islamic world, is a serious matter punishable in some countries by death.

Hypocrisy, on the other hand, seems to go largely unpunished.

Go figure...

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