Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Discuss the problems that can occur in relationships with differing cultures and help overcome any barriers that exist.

Moderators: DJKeefy, 4u Network

User avatar
Scottishtourist
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2165
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 901 times
Been thanked: 1322 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Scottishtourist » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:18 pm

I've been re-reading Dusak's posts with regard to his marriage plans/relationship,etc.Topic "The Bells."
Didn't appreciate that as a Muslim he does not require to divorce his current wife in order to marry his Egyptian partner.
This is not a slur on Dusak..and I want to re-iterate that.It's just that in my naivety,I didn't fully appreciate his conversion to Islam..and will probably always think of him as a man still abiding by UK rules...as he is not an Egyptian citizen.

So..in view of that fact,this is a hypothetical question..but one that has come into my mind as a result of a conversation I once had with a lady returning from a holiday in Luxor.
She was very attractive,pleasant,chatty,funny(older than me) and sat beside me in aisle seat on flight.Her hubby was on opposite side a few seats back,intermittantly snoozing and reading paper.We got chatting and she said that they had been married for 40 odd years..but he was a grumpy so-and-so.
She had visited Luxor on her own a few times (cos he didn't want to go)but this time he had changed his mind at eleventh hour and had accompanied her.
She then kinda shocked me and said that she had a "friend"(male) in Luxor..and when hubby decided to come along,he had somewhat "mucked"up her arrangements for the holiday.
Yeah,I'll bet he did!!Splutter!Splutter!!

So,can anyone tell me?
If this lady goes back to Luxor on her own..will she be able to "marry"this male friend by way of orfi/urfi (whatever it's called)for the duration of her holiday?
Then tear up the paper,and go back home to grumpy hubby after holiday?

Or,would it be considered bigamy and could result in serious consequences for her back in UK?Would it affect the Egyptian man in any way?Be of benefit to him or otherwise?

Can a married tourist/European woman be free to enjoy a "legal"holiday affair(by visiting lawyer's office)..or must they prove that they are "free"to marry a Muslim/Egyptian man.i.e,provide documents proving they are divorced,widowed,etc?

Whilst the Muslim/Egyptian man needs produce nothing?(Or,have I misunderstood this somewhere along the lines?)

Or would the situation be frowned upon and disallowed,i.e..a single Muslim man being in a temporary relationship with a still legally married European female?Christian or other?



User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:49 am

Foreigners can get away with anything they want in Luxor it seems. I think your constant concerns about expats looking down at tourists are overblown. Even in public, their behavior is whatever they want and they somehow get away with it. If a foreign female wants to act in ways that would be considered inappropriate even if she were an Egyptian male she can. They never have to learn to speak a word of Arabic, never have to understand the culture, or the religion, or anything that one would normally have to learn, adjust and adapt to moving to a foreign country. In other words, once a tourist, always a tourist because the locals bend and cater to their whims and peculiarities and proclivities, no matter how inappropriate and offensive to any decent person ANYWHERE. Even normal standards of decency that would apply in their own countries, they can ignore. It's a free for all, non-stop holiday from reality.

The above is not specifically an answer to your question, but a wider observation. However, maybe it will give you some idea why this woman thought it was ok to start complaining how her husband was cramping her style to a total stranger.

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7328 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Dusak » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:26 am

When we get married our marriage would not be recognized in the UK, but neither would our Muslim marriage be seen as an act of bigamy. And lets face it, the UK as most other countries of their like, do not raise an eyebrow any longer when two unmarried people check into a hotel for a weekend fling. More business for the hotel in these tight financial times. If a woman wants a holiday fling, then coming to Egypt is nothing special, she can be accommodated anywhere on the planet to get her needs catered too. Personally speaking I do not, and never have done, believed in extra marital affairs when still together, but that is a decision that they take, nothing to do with the likes of myself. The only thing I object to is when they are so publicly open with it as in Egypt and the rest of the world, there are many decent people about that take offense at such public displays of adultery. I would love to walk around the city holding the hand of my soulmate, but resist the urge until we are married. If in the UK, married or not, our hands would be glued together when out.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

User avatar
Jayway
Member
Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: Portugal
Has thanked: 1326 times
Been thanked: 211 times

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Jayway » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:13 pm

Well Dusak, I hope everything turns out OK for you and good luck. Sounds like you are getting into a world of hurt.

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:08 pm

ST-If your question is about Islam and/or Islamic/Egyptian law, please please please don't rely on things you hear about from expats/tourists who live their lives like an open novel, whether non-Muslim or Muslim. You won't learn ANYTHING about what you are seeking that way. You will only learn about how those people choose to live their lives, and most seem to choose to live based on their own personal desires without any regard for anything beyond that, cultural mores or religion or even those to whom they are related legally.

And just because someone says "I am Muslim" does not mean you can learn about ISLAM by observing them. You need to go to a source that is authoritative and trained to interpret the religious texts and apply them to daily life if you want to understand how people are SUPPOSED to behave.

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7015
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2029 times
Been thanked: 5928 times
Egypt

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:38 pm

I've occasionally browsed sites offering ( from supposedly qualified experts on islam) guidance on interpretation of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

The range of, often contradictory, opinion is breathtaking.

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:09 pm

Yes, but then you can pick which interpretation you like. ;) Differences of interpretation are not necessarily due to one person being more learned than the other, but rather the sources and principles of the school of thought.

For example, the Maliki school of thought considers dogs to be pure. One does not need to purify oneself if one touches a dog before praying following the Maliki school, but all other schools consider them to be dirty.

Upper Egypt is Maliki, but Cairo and Lower Egypt follow Hanafi law and the law of the courts throughout Egypt is Hanafi. For example, marriage licenses from the government specify Hanafi law.

But it's a place to start. Yes, there are different interpretations but for example, there's consensus that eating pork is generally forbidden, but you might not get that impression if you just observed some Muslim converts in Luxor, who have not cut back on their pork consumption at all and instead like to wax poetic whenever they get their hands on some.

Most sites give the sources on which they base their interpretations so you can at least see where they are coming from, even if they don't agree in interpretation. The closer you can get to the source, the less of a personal lifestyle choice it is.

User avatar
Who2
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6655
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: Snitzel
Has thanked: 1467 times
Been thanked: 5285 times
Gender:
Vietnam

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Who2 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:37 pm

Quote: "but you might not get that impression if you just observed some Muslim converts in Luxor, who have not cut back on their pork consumption at all and instead like to wax poetic whenever they get their hands on some.

Where can I find these infidels and confiscate their Pork ?....surly you jest ?... :cool:
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7328 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Dusak » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:21 am

I've always lead the life that fits comfortable with me. As I suppose others do. Its never about religion, or what is seen to be right by conflicting words issued by those of different attitudes towards how they personally see what is right, but what is inside me, what makes me the person that I am. I reside comfortably within my own skin.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 2256 times
Canada

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:14 am

@D - not trying to be argumentative but how can your life 'never be about religion' if you're Muslim?

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7015
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2029 times
Been thanked: 5928 times
Egypt

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:44 am

LovelyLadyLux wrote:@D - not trying to be argumentative but how can your life 'never be about religion' if you're Muslim?
Dusak can answer for himself but I read his remarks as indicating that, despite sincerely believing in Allah and his prophet Mohamed, which is all it takes to be a muslim, he does not neccesarily follow conventional islamic behaviour and that religion as such plays little, if any, part in his day to day life.

LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 2256 times
Canada

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:11 pm

@ Newcastle - I don't read what D said that way at all. You know yourself that being an adherent to Islam brings both lifestyle and religious commitments to Allah. Tokenism doesn't.

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:29 pm

Newcastle is being diplomatic and protective of Dusak, not interpreting what he said. From his past posts, Dusak claimed to have become Muslim after a shaykh gave him permission to convert. That's not how it works at all, one does not need to get permission or approval from anyone, but whatever, he seems to think becoming Muslim is something done to you, not a choice based on personal conviction.

What i am trying to figure out why a 62 year old man married two times is so desperately in need of public hand holding and moreover, talks about it as something important. Sometimes I think Dusak is a 14 year old girl pretending to be an adult male.

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7015
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2029 times
Been thanked: 5928 times
Egypt

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:49 pm

With respect LLL, I don't know anything of the sort!

I know plenty of muslims who do not pray 5 times a day, or attend Friday prayers (other than irregularly ), who drink alcohol etc.etc.

Then again we have Da'esh following their interpretation of islam...undoubtedly sincere in their belief that fhey are obeying the will of Allah.

The conduct of any muslim is ultimately between him and his maker and presumably he considets that he answers only to Allah and not the local thought police.

He may find other muslims look askance at his particular brand of islam. So what?

The acceptance of Allah as the only god, and that Mohammed was his messenger in receipt of instructions as how to live, is all that is required to be a muslim. Chosing not to follow all, or indeed any, of the strictures laid down in the Qur'an or the dictates of Mohammed does not alter the fact that he/she is a muslim.

Others may criticise the actions of fellow muslims. Judgement will be down to Allah.

The sincerity of the belief is all that matters and I'm well aware of the inference which some are drawing with regard to Dusak.

He can deal with that himself, if he choses.

In his shoes, I wouldn't bother.

P.S. I'm not a mind reader...GD , you have the advantage over me there. As to whether Dusak is sincere in his acceptance of islam.....I neither know, nor care. I try to refrain from judging people I don't know and have never met.

LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 2256 times
Canada

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:05 pm

I know plenty of muslims who do not pray 5 times a day, or attend Friday prayers (other than irregularly ), who drink alcohol etc.etc.
Yes but these Muslims have been born into and socialized into Islam thus they're incorporating much more of it into their life than somebody who simply says "I'm Muslim" and calls that conversion.
Then again we have Da'esh following their interpretation of islam
IMO - Da'esh are barbaric terrorists ONLY and nothing MORE. Don't taint Islam by even hinting these animals are following anything close to the Islamic faith.
The acceptance of Allah as the only god, and that Mohammed was his messenger in receipt of instructions as how to live, is all that is required to be a muslim
If you're a superficial in word only Muslim otherwise you're adhering to the 5 tenets of Islam and all that entails. Takes more than saying something to MAKE anybody anything. Just saying something don't necessarily make it so. If you're talking the talk you also have to walk the walk.

What Dusak says and does is no matter to me 'cept he has said two very contradictory things and I'm merely pointing out the contradictions :) :) :)

User avatar
Scottishtourist
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2165
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Scotland
Has thanked: 901 times
Been thanked: 1322 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Scottishtourist » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:16 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:
And just because someone says "I am Muslim" does not mean you can learn about ISLAM by observing them. You need to go to a source that is authoritative and trained to interpret the religious texts and apply them to daily life if you want to understand how people are SUPPOSED to behave.
I think I've asked this question before..but will ask it again.

If someone chooses to convert to a different religion/faith from what they have been born into,or indeed chooses to accept a faith when they have not been adherent to any..are there any conditions laid down in Islam that they have to satisfy first?

For example,is there a period of study/instruction which has to be observed?
Do they need to go to a mosque?
Do uncircumcised males require to be circumcised?
Does anyone else e.g Iman (spelling!)then declare them a Muslim once they have satisfied certain criteria?Or do none of these conditions apply,and a personal declaration "I am Muslim"will suffice?

I can only speak for Catholicism.If born into the faith,then we should fulfil seven sacraments.However,converts to Catholicism must also accept some of these.
They have to undergo a period of religious instruction,attend Mass,accept Baptism..and only then can they accept the sacrament of Communion(i.e,the consecration and acceptance that they are receiving the body and blood of Christ)and not merely eating bread and drinking wine.

Surely,to convert to a faith through choice,someone should at the very least understand and learn something about that faith?

Are there instructions that have to be adhered to before someone can "embrace Islam?"
Or is Catholicism just archaic?

Should maybe have put this post in Politics and Religion section!

newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7015
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 2029 times
Been thanked: 5928 times
Egypt

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:57 pm

LovelyLadyLux wrote:
I know plenty of muslims who do not pray 5 times a day, or attend Friday prayers (other than irregularly ), who drink alcohol etc.etc.
Yes but these Muslims have been born into and socialized into Islam thus they're incorporating much more of it into their life than somebody who simply says "I'm Muslim" and calls that conversion.
Then again we have Da'esh following their interpretation of islam
IMO - Da'esh are barbaric terrorists ONLY and nothing MORE. Don't taint Islam by even hinting these animals are following anything close to the Islamic faith.
The acceptance of Allah as the only god, and that Mohammed was his messenger in receipt of instructions as how to live, is all that is required to be a muslim
If you're a superficial in word only Muslim otherwise you're adhering to the 5 tenets of Islam and all that entails. Takes more than saying something to MAKE anybody anything. Just saying something don't necessarily make it so. If you're talking the talk you also have to walk the walk.

What Dusak says and does is no matter to me 'cept he has said two very contradictory things and I'm merely pointing out the contradictions :) :) :)
You're entitled to your opinion and interpretation of what constitutes being a muslim.

I disagree with all the points you make.

Nuff said.

LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 2256 times
Canada

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:52 pm

@ Newcastle - no prob. They're my opinions based on my observations, discussion with Muslims, reading the Quran and my own study of Islam. Am sure your point of view is coming from the same place. ;) BUT I appreciate that you're up front enough to just bluntly say 'we' are differing. ;)

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:21 am

Scottishtourist wrote:Or do none of these conditions apply,and a personal declaration "I am Muslim"will suffice?
That's it and you have to understand what the words you are saying mean. But God knows the belief and intention of those that do. If someone doesn't actually believe or intend, then in the eyes of God he is not a Muslim even if he says the words, but that isn't our job to interpret, unless the person explicitly says they didn't do it out of belief.

After making the statement, it is the same as for someone who was born into a Muslim family.

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7328 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Dusak » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:53 pm

Don't worry, be happy. Has anyone noticed that the children's clothes on offer here in Luxor are pretty grim?
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • The Egyptian male.
    by Dusak » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:36 am » in Living in Luxor
    60 Replies
    695 Views
    Last post by Kymmy
    Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:36 pm
  • Male midwife!
    by Scottishtourist » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:36 pm » in Women's Talk
    11 Replies
    132 Views
    Last post by dsaxelby
    Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:32 pm
  • Male dress.
    by Scottishtourist » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:06 pm » in Women's Talk
    15 Replies
    148 Views
    Last post by Brian Yare
    Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:32 pm
  • Male Logic
    by LovelyLadyLux » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:52 pm » in Just 4 Fun
    2 Replies
    233 Views
    Last post by Dusak
    Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:58 am
  • 3 out of 5 on Egyptian' constitution banner aren't Egyptian
    by DJKeefy » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:42 pm » in Know Egypt
    4 Replies
    848 Views
    Last post by DJKeefy
    Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:35 am