Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Discuss the problems that can occur in relationships with differing cultures and help overcome any barriers that exist.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Scottishtourist » Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:47 pm

What language is Quran written in?

Is it Arabic?Archaic script?
In local library,there are English translations of Quran..so occasionally I will look at them.

If an English speaking person converts to Islam..do they recite their prayers in language of Quran?
Would they not need to have a certain understanding of that language before they can truly understand what they are saying?
I can still remember the latin responses during the Catholic Mass.Then it was translated into English,so wouldn't feel out of place attending either.
So..is translation necessary before any convert to Islam can pray to Allah(pbuh)?



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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:16 pm

To the best of my knowledge the Qur'an is written in classical Arabic and prayers are always said in that language, whatever your native language might be.

This obviously limits the ability of a non- Arabic speaker to recite.

The Qur'an is notoriously difficult to translate. ..at least to the satisfaction of Arabic speakers. Also, unlike the Bible, its chapters are arranged neither chronologically nor thematically, which, for me, made it a difficult read.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Scottishtourist » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:30 pm

newcastle wrote:To the best of my knowledge the Qur'an is written in classical Arabic and prayers are always said in that language, whatever your native language might be.

This obviously limits the ability of a non- Arabic speaker to recite.

The Qur'an is notoriously difficult to translate. ..at least to the satisfaction of Arabic speakers. Also, unlike the Bible, its chapters are arranged neither chronologically nor thematically, which, for me, made it a difficult read.
So,are you saying that a Muslim convert is quite at liberty to recite prayers,whilst not having any idea of what's being said?
If it's repeated "parrot fashion"then it's still meaningful?

Sorry..but I just can't get my head round that idea!
If they neither read,speak,nor understand Arabic and language of Quran..then what's the point of embracing Islam in the first place?
I guess we will forever disagree on this topic newcastle.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Dusak » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:40 am

Its a personal choice. I would not like to be trapped within a religion, to have my life ruled and dictated to. I liken that to being trapped within a loveless marriage or even worse not understanding the true worth of unconditional love, as I think at least one member on here suffers in silence from. You can 'love' your god in silence, not feeling the need to tell all and sundry how great he is, same as you can ''hate'' your respective partner for the confinements that they wrap your life in. The only difference between the two, is that in one you have to suffer in silence and vent your frustrations in other directions. IMO of course.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:48 am

Do you know what the words "Islam" and "Muslim" mean, Dusak? Maybe you can explain the meaning of these two words to ST.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:14 am

I liken that to being trapped within a loveless marriage or even worse not understanding the true worth of unconditional love, as I think at least one member on here suffers in silence from
Might I ask - to whom are you referring?

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:48 am

Scottishtourist wrote:
newcastle wrote:To the best of my knowledge the Qur'an is written in classical Arabic and prayers are always said in that language, whatever your native language might be.

This obviously limits the ability of a non- Arabic speaker to recite.

The Qur'an is notoriously difficult to translate. ..at least to the satisfaction of Arabic speakers. Also, unlike the Bible, its chapters are arranged neither chronologically nor thematically, which, for me, made it a difficult read.
So,are you saying that a Muslim convert is quite at liberty to recite prayers,whilst not having any idea of what's being said?
If it's repeated "parrot fashion"then it's still meaningful?

Sorry..but I just can't get my head round that idea!
If they neither read,speak,nor understand Arabic and language of Quran..then what's the point of embracing Islam in the first place?
I guess we will forever disagree on this topic newcastle.
There's nothing to disagree on ST! I was merely stating the facts, as I understand them. I think GD might have commented if I was wildly wrong.

I have no views about the behaviour of the adherents of the various religions and their differences. They're all nonsense to me :lol:

The absence of GD addressing your technical questions, and she is best placed on here to address them, may be a reluctance to get involved in a discussion which would fill a book let alone a forum thread.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by carrie » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:43 am

What's the difference to the Catholic Mass then ST, it was always given in the past in Latin, the responses where often repeated parrot fashion with many people not understanding what they meant.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:22 am

carrie wrote:What's the difference to the Catholic Mass then ST, it was always given in the past in Latin, the responses where often repeated parrot fashion with many people not understanding what they meant.
Good point!

I was raised in a catholic home, even served as an altar boy, underwent confirmation etc. Could recite quite a lot of latin.

Barely understood a word of it.

Then I grew up, started to ask questions, to apply rational thought......

and the rest is history.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Mad Dilys » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:10 am

My understanding is that God knows our thoughts and intentions - these do not necessarily have a particular language.

We speak our prayers to affirm our thoughts and intentions.

There are several different kinds of prayer in my experience both in Islam and in Christianity - for example formal prayer used by many for particular occasions and informal prayer about a personal request - for family health and well-being for example.
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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Who2 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:46 pm

Quote: If it's repeated "parrot fashion"then it's still meaningful?

Well in the Catholic Church it's called 'Rote & Dogma, 'You tell me if it's meaningful.... :cool:

Quote:
"Anything routine can become dogmatic but isn't necessarily already so. Doing by rote is not dogmatic whereas choosing by rote is. Speaking by rote is not dogmatic; that is down to conditioning, yet thinking by rote is. When choices and thoughts become automatic with no room for other possibilities, that is when stiffness creeps in.
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"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Subversion » Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:37 pm

I am sure I will stand corrected here - however my understanding was that according to Islam we are all born "Muslim" - our choice is then not to "convert" to Islam but to turn away, thus becoming infidel. So the choosing to follow or adhere to Islam for those from "other" faiths is not a conversion but a reversion?

Just how I understood it - I am sure an over simplified view but grateful for a better explanation

S

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Major Thom » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:34 am

But Christianity came first before Islam, so how can that be.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:09 am

Subversion wrote:I am sure I will stand corrected here - however my understanding was that according to Islam we are all born "Muslim" - our choice is then not to "convert" to Islam but to turn away, thus becoming infidel. So the choosing to follow or adhere to Islam for those from "other" faiths is not a conversion but a reversion?

Just how I understood it - I am sure an over simplified view but grateful for a better explanation

S
All religions, all faith, is based on belief rather than verifiable fact.

According to islam, you are correct :

The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim)

For a riposte you can read :

"It's the most ridiculous claim one could ever have made in history..."

http://www.islam-watch.org/home/45-ali- ... is-it.html

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:31 am

With respect to Newcastle's comments about why I don't answer ST's questions. There are two reasons-1 I don't answer more than the most basic questions because there are other sites on the internet with people more qualified than me to be answering these questions. 2-I also find these sorts of threads turn tedious, as exemplified by Newcastle's above post. I've taught courses on Egyptian religion and I am perfectly capable of explaining ancient Egyptian religion or Egyptian Christianity without having to make snide remarks that they were wrong or to remind people that I am Muslim and don't believe in the ancient Egyptian religion or Christianity, so I really have no patience for people who can't do the same. So really these threads descend into disrespect and intolerance that I prefer not to engage in.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:15 am

I take a similar view.

I'm happy to answer, or try to answer, a specific 'technical' point but am neither qualified, nor interested, to express an opinion on detailed aspects of religion.

My own opinions are probably apparent from occasional comments I've been drawn into making in the past. On reflection, against my better judgement.

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by Subversion » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:30 am

newcastle wrote:
Subversion wrote:I am sure I will stand corrected here - however my understanding was that according to Islam we are all born "Muslim" - our choice is then not to "convert" to Islam but to turn away, thus becoming infidel. So the choosing to follow or adhere to Islam for those from "other" faiths is not a conversion but a reversion?

Just how I understood it - I am sure an over simplified view but grateful for a better explanation

S
All religions, all faith, is based on belief rather than verifiable fact.

According to islam, you are correct :

The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim)

For a riposte you can read :

"It's the most ridiculous claim one could ever have made in history..."

http://www.islam-watch.org/home/45-ali- ... is-it.html

Thank you Newcastle for taking the time to respond.

I just find it confusing when the media report about the "growth" of Islam and increasing number of converts - where in reality from an Islamic perspective there are no converts just reverts!

S

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:36 am

The media being imprecise?

Hardly news :lol:

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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by HEPZIBAH » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:43 am

I'm confused! (Nothing new in that.)

The heading for this thread is 'Relationship with an Egyptian male'. At first I thought that perhaps Scottishtourist was about to declare the truth about her relationship with the Egyptian man she has been referring to, especially in the light of the fact that she has recently said she has booked another holiday to Luxor. However, the thread seems not to be about such relationships but is discussing Islam, the Quran and the language used. So, what is this thread really about?
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Re: Relationship with an Egyptian male.

Post by newcastle » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:08 am

I think we lost the thread.

Or it got twisted :lol:

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