Relationship with an Egyptian male.

[HEPZIBAH]

Hmm... the twist seems to come right at the beginning. The opening post doesn't seem to relate to the title - unless the background information asked for on Islam is a prelude to something else.

[Jayway]

Somewhat sad that older women have to book a holiday to Luxor to get their hands onto a man - - - - pathetic really.

[newcastle]

Quite.

The ones Ive seen could easily fill their boots with handsome young studs in UK.

Of course they might have to drug and tie them up first.

[carrie]

Not just the women Newcastle seen quite a few older men with their "friends".

[BENNU]

Quite.

The ones Ive seen could easily fill their boots with handsome young studs in UK.

Of course they might have to drug and tie them up first.

In Luxor, some of the young studs make sure to drug themselves first. They age so fast that after a few years, they look just as tired and bitter as the ones that I have seen.

[Glyphdoctor]

There was an article I saw recently featuring a foreign woman in Luxor. It wasn't about her marriage, but it did make mention that she had married some local 4 years ago or so. There were several photos of the woman with the article. My mother is 82 years old, but it struck me that this woman's face looked like she was a lot older than my mother. There was one photo of her standing with a guy who was clearly in his 20s, not sure if it was the husband or not but it was rather mind boggling if it was.

In a way it is really unfair to steal a man's youth from him like that. He's not going to get it back so it shouldn't be wasted with someone who has one foot in the grave.

[newcastle]

Oh come on GD !

"Steal a man's youth from him"?

You make it sound like he's a lamb to the slaughter in these situations. Predatory females on the hunt for young meat.

More often than not it's a sad, lonely, deluded female being conned into what she thinks is s loving relationship by a guy who knows exactly what he's doing and has no shame or scruples about it either.

[carrie]

He also often shares his "youth" with his Egyptian wife.

[Subversion]

I do love the twists and turns of these discussions...

I am however intrigued to know what is broadly considered as an "older" woman ? Is it simply the case that this refers to a woman who is older than her partner (even if only by a nanosecond) or is there an actual age gap "scale of acceptability" which ranges from "single figures that's OK - to OMG you are nothing but a brazen scrubber - to you should be in prison for that.."

Can I please reassure fellow members that I have never had to resort to doing a "Joyce McKinney" on a chap yet - however as I loom upon the threshold of 51 and finding myself without a regular supplier, I would very much welcome a copy of the definitive rule book which clearly sets out the expected behaviour of a woman of my age. (Could you also supply me with a copy of the verifiable certificates of any such author incontrovertibly proving they are a divine authority on the matter?)

I do not condone sex-tourism (by ANY gender) and likewise I can see how damaging it has been on local culture and custom in places like Luxor. Nor do I condone the clear motivations by some to lie, cheat and extort from their partner - which ever way round that takes place.

But as far as I am concerned - providing both parties are of legal age and both of sound mind enough to make an informed choice , the age gap issue in itself is a matter for the individuals concerned.

I look forward to reading the rule book ( and receiving those certificates).

Sx

[Dusak]

Its an unfortunate fact of life that our looks begin to die before the actual body fails, but the emotions inside continue to thrive. The need to be wanted, loved, protected or just noticed. Is it wrong for ''old'' people to still want these feelings and to act physically with them? Looks may change in a woman, but in most cases I think their libido is alive and kicking.

[BENNU]

The need to be wanted, loved, protected or just noticed. Is it wrong for ''old'' people to still want these feelings and to act physically with them?

If what you need is to feel as if you are wanted, loved and protected for as long as you can afford the protection and physical act with a very young guy, you have come to the right place.

[Glyphdoctor]

It is a fact that in every country the life expectancy of men is lower than women. Therefore, the pool of eligible age-appropriate men for a woman is less than the age-appropriate pool of women for a man. Also, women tend to marry men older than them on average, so they are more likely to be left widows than the men are left widowers. Therefore, I think in their golden years, there is somewhat more of a logic to a woman being with a younger man, and less for a man to be with a younger woman. But still, that doesn't need to be decades.

There is a pattern beyond this though, in that those who can't hold their first or second or whatever marriage together (even some are still in the marriages but don't respect their partners) and find themselves at middle age or older alone or miserable, are the ones who tend to engage in these relationships and get burned. You don't see so many that are widowed at a relatively young age like ST or Carrie losing their better judgment and rushing in. I kind of wonder whether the failure at other relationships makes these people more prone to get into another doomed relationship. Some people may just be better at doing marriage than others and selecting a partner that they will continue with in the first place, and that rolls over from relationship to relationship, or not, in the case where they stay together.

[Glyphdoctor]

The need to be wanted, loved, protected or just noticed. Is it wrong for ''old'' people to still want these feelings and to act physically with them?

:urm: If what you need is to feel as if you are wanted, loved and protected for as long as you can afford the protection and physical act with a very young guy, you have come to the right place. :(

Or gal. There are whole villages where it is an industry for the fairer sex. Maybe not so common in Luxor but definitely in certain villages in Giza.

[BENNU]

There is a pattern beyond this though, in that those who can't hold their first or second or whatever marriage together (even some are still in the marriages but don't respect their partners) and find themselves at middle age or older alone or miserable, are the ones who tend to engage in these relationships and get burned. You don't see so many that are widowed at a relatively young age like ST or Carrie losing their better judgment and rushing in. I kind of wonder whether the failure at other relationships makes these people more prone to get into another doomed relationship. Some people may just be better at doing marriage than others, and that rolls over from relationship to relationship.

I do not know how many women I have met, who have admitted that they are supporting a young husband because what he gives them is "worth so much more than money". Some have become disillusioned but trapped or addicted to the feeling of a pair of arms around them, though they are still really lonely in Luxor, others have come to me for advice before finding the love that they expect to be available in Luxor - all because it is their turn! They are divorced or widowed after years of abuse or mention that with a history of bad relations, they feel that it is their turn to experience romance. These lovely women experience being popular for the first time ever and imagine that there must be someone for them in Luxor.

First timers to Luxor have asked me how to tell the good guys from the bad, because they are tired of bad relations. They may know what they are doing, but seem to forget that the men who hold the door for them do not do so because it is their turn to feel like women , they do not act romantic with them because it is their turn to feel important , they do not give them a good time because it is their turn to feel desired after all those years of neglect and they do not prefer middle aged or older European women to young Egyptians. (I have never heard this from a man).

The women who tell me about their bad experience with men in their home countries and who have faith in a future with some young Egyptian gentleman they have yet to meet, usually become embarassed when I say that in all these years, I have not been lucky myself, while all they think it takes to find true happiness with a man is a holiday in Luxor.

[Glyphdoctor]

The women who tell me about their bad experience with men in their home countries and who have faith in a future with some young Egyptian gentleman they have yet to meet,

In other words, they want love in the abstract, not a particular man. But it's the same on the other side, the Egyptian will try their luck with any foreigner that is still breathing until one snaps at the bait. Both parties aren't interested in the other person for who they are as people but because they got a chance for the feelings or the money. It doesn't matter to them who it comes from, just that they get it.

[Who2]

Whet seems to be lacking here is simple: Integrity......

[newcastle]

The women who tell me about their bad experience with men in their home countries and who have faith in a future with some young Egyptian gentleman they have yet to meet,

In other words, they want love in the abstract, not a particular man. But it's the same on the other side, the Egyptian will try their luck with any foreigner that is still breathing until one snaps at the bait. Both parties aren't interested in the other person for who they are as people but because they got a chance for the feelings or the money. It doesn't matter to them who it comes from, just that they get it.

You've hit the nail on the head and that's why these relationships frequently fail. There's a total mismatch in the objectives of the parties.

The basic preferences of men for younger women , and of women for men of equal, or even older years, is deep seated in biological and evolutionary forces and when you see the reverse occurring you can be pretty sure other forces are at work.

A European woman expecting to find companionship and financial support from a young Egyptian man is likely to be disappointed.

The Egyptian man, in letting his desire for financial security override the usual conventions of his society, is perhaps less
likely to be disappointed because, even when the relationship goes 'tits up', he will usually have secured a good part of his objectives.

Where there is less disparity in age, and more importantly in financial status, these mixed relationships have a chance although there are often social and religious barriers to surmount.

[Who2]

Quote:You've hit the nail on the head and that's why these relationships frequently fail. There's a total mismatch in the objectives of the parties.

The basic preferences of men for younger women , and of women for men of equal, or even older years, is deep seated in biological and evolutionary forces and when you see the reverse occurring you can be pretty sure other forces are at work.

A European woman expecting to find companionship and financial support from a young Egyptian man is likely to be disappointed.

The Egyptian man, in letting his desire for financial security override the usual conventions of his society, is perhaps less
likely to be disappointed because, even when the relationship goes 'tits up', he will usually have secured a good part of his objectives.

Where there is less disparity in age, and more importantly in financial status, these mixed relationships have a chance although there are often social and religious barriers to surmount.

"In my book it's still a lack of Integrity from both sides, bluntly put neither are getting enough or never had enough...

[newcastle]

I don't think anyone would argue with you, Who2, that integrity is often lacking on the part of the Egyptian male.

With regard to the foreign woman, it's more often than not common sense that's missing

I don't see anything intrinsically wrong in a mature single woman doing a "Shirley Valentine" . I don't ascribe to the view that there are hordes of predatory foreign women descending on Luxor and luring innocent young Egyptians to perdition.

[Subversion]

I am not for one minute trying to "deny" the emergence of a "gigalo" culture in countries like Egypt and absolutely agree that anyone who pursues a relationship, irrespective of the age/gender combinations, for the sole purposes of extortion needs an outing with some barbed wire and a rusty butter knife - however...

In societies and communities where arranged marriage is the norm, the key drivers for marriage are gain and security.

So when you look at places like Luxor,you are fundamentally dealing with a traditional approach to marriage that is not driven by love. Why are we then surprised that so many young men are driven toward relationships with foreign women motivated by the potential for gain and security.

These motivations should not preclude anyone from behaving with honest and honourable intentions toward their spouse. But the case remains that since the inception of Islam, decisions on marriage are largely based on practical not emotional considerations.

Why do we then go on about "he's marrying her for the money not the love" - by and in large, when does anyone from a "traditional" Luxor background marry for love? "Love comes first" has to some extent been genetically bred out!

This said - I am acutely aware that there are many forum members with Egyptian spouses who must be fed up to the back teeth of the constant cynicism that seems to surround the issue of multi-cultural marriage. There is no one size fits all rule to these things and when all is said and done people remain individuals.

On another note - I once had a "younger" muslim partner (accepting all the criticisms that since we "lived in sin" he wasn't exactly at "good muslim"). One day I asked him why he was content to settle for an "older" woman, when frankly he had a pick of younger girls from both his own and european cultural backgrounds.

His explanation was that I was more like a "traditional" girl - that younger girls increasingly from his own, and european culture were more obsessed with make up, getting drunk and partying all night. And it minded me of a conversation I had had with an English friend and her younger Egyptian husband some years previously in Luxor.

It's the what I refer to as "mother stands for comfort" phenomena and nor then does it surprise me that so many men from certain cultural backgrounds are drawn towards "older" women.

Sx