Trip Report.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I wonder at the mentality of anybody would want to sit and watch some man torture a bull. He might not kill it but stabbing it, jabbing it, flapping stuff at it - well all pretty sick IMO especially in this day and age and does kinda make you wonder why this type of event would still be happening at all.

[Scottishtourist]

@ST - interesting his view of bull fighting. I've never seen a bull fight but am totally against this activity and see it as quite barbaric to torture a poor bull 'til his death. Was just wondering how your Tour Guide approached this topic as NOW am pretty sure many tourists would take any promo of bull fighting as a big negative. It is more than possible/probably given your Guide was that young that he never to a 'real' fight himself but I did wonder what the spiel about it would be. Can't hardly see it as something Spain would want to hold on high especially given Animal Rights today. Nice to know the bull rings are now used for concerts.

He was actually very non-commital with any of his views regarding bull fighting LLL.
He was more informative about the details of the building itself and pointed out all the entrances,etc.It's a beautiful circular building and I'd imagine that it is a stunning venue for concerts.
Have never been to a bullfight either.Was last in Spain 33 years ago(before the kids came along)but like you..I didn't regard it then as entertainment,nor would I now.
Maybe if he was a bit older,he would've had different opinion on it.

Gustav Eiffel(he of Eiffel Tower fame)also made some sort of mark in Spain.Didn't know that before.He built a bridge in Gerona which is shown in Horus' video clip..and I walked across it!
Forgot to mention that we also visited Olympic Stadium in Barcelona and saw a sculpture/monument there that was designed by same person who designed the tribute monument to the 9/11 victims in New York.Quite stunning and ultimately poignant.

Every day,I remember something more about the holiday..and it's wetted my appetite.I want to see MORE!

[LovelyLadyLux]

I have heard from quite a few friends that Spain is a terrific holiday destination with a rich cultural history. Lots to see, lots to do. I've been thinking about it myself - finding a resort that is far enough from the throng and hoardes but close in enough to make transportation easy with lots to see in the immediate area.

Never knew that about Gustav Eiffel either. I only equate him to Paris and the Eiffel Tower. Interesting there is a tribute there to 9/11. Nice though.

I'm particularly drawn to anything with flowers Love the colour and just plain seeing all the different flowers. Always fascinates me.

Cool to know too that you were not constantly harassed as a single woman and were able to go walkabout and sit down for a cuppa without having to beat away the touts. That is fairly significant when planning a holiday.

[Dusak]

I've only cheered the once concerning a bull fight, several years ago when it was reported that the bull had fought back which ended up with the Matadors full dangle set hanging off the end of one horn. Bully for him.

[Zooropa]

I don't have an issue with bull fighting itself, only the rules governing the "sport".

If both combatants get into the ring using only what their god gave them to fight with it would be perfect.

[Scottishtourist]

Cool to know too that you were not constantly harassed as a single woman and were able to go walkabout and sit down for a cuppa without having to beat away the touts. That is fairly significant when planning a holiday.

That in itself really was the ace card LLL!
It's so nice when waiters/locals,etc,don't even bat an eyelid when a single woman dressed in tourist attire sits down in a cafe and orders a coffee!All toilets were spotless too!

I can't even compare the place to Luxor.I felt more comfortable there than I ever have in Luxor.
Kinda funny..but in Luxor I always feel bit awkward,i.e.I shouldn't dress the way I do,I'm asking for trouble,I'm an individual..but should always remember I'm in Muslim country,etc.

Who's perpetrating these myths?
Egypt and Luxor needs to "lighten up."
As do the ex-pats there,the pensioners,the pseudo Muslims,etc.

Luxor is dead..and it will never recover.We're all fed up with the comments,the hassle,the abuse and the rip-offs!

GD,Who2 and others say that it should be a "select"place for high brow tourists and those who "appreciate"the culture,the history,the "digging up"of the dead,etc.

Utter crap!There's nothing left there to entice us anymore.City of the dead,all dull,boring,and faded!

Take a leaf outa Spain's book.Respect your tourists and guests!

[newcastle]

It's a pity you had to end (?) a couple of pleasant posts with the all-too- familiar tirade. I suppose character will out

I can't even compare the place to Luxor.I felt more comfortable there than I ever have in Luxor.
Kinda funny..but in Luxor I always feel bit awkward,i.e.I shouldn't dress the way I do,I'm asking for trouble,I'm an individual..but should always remember I'm in Muslim country,etc.

Of course you should. It's called "respect"

Who's perpetrating these myths?
Egypt and Luxor needs to "lighten up."
As do the ex-pats there,the pensioners,the pseudo Muslims,etc.

That's YOUR opinion

Luxor is dead..and it will never recover.We're all fed up with the comments,the hassle,the abuse and the rip-offs!

Obviously not all. Maybe it's your own behaviour which engenders some of the 'adverse' reactions you've encountered. Thousands of foreigners live in Egypt; millions continue to visit (despite the security issues)

GD,Who2 and others say that it should be a "select"place for high brow tourists and those who "appreciate"the culture,the history,the "digging up"of the dead,etc.

Possibly. Going 'down market' seems to have been a mistake. Luxor isn't really a destination for the "kiss-me-quick" brigade. If you have no interest in Egyptian culture or history it's a strange place to choose for a holiday. Tell me ST...what was it about the place that attracted you? Surely not the strapping young lads with a penchant for middle-ages slappers?

Utter crap!There's nothing left there to entice us anymore.

Surely not? It's cheaper than ever and the local lads are even more desperate

City of the dead,all dull,boring,and faded!

Take a leaf outa Spain's book.Respect your tourists and guests!

I've lived in Spain...and it's very nice. 50% of Spanish words are recognisably similar to their English meaning so there's no real language barrier. Their culture is not too different to the English. It's like home from home to many....with sun.....which explains the millions who visit annually and the millions who live there as ex-pats. It's nothing to do with "respect". If you think Spain doesn't have its share of lowlifes, or other negative issues, you'll be in for a surprise one day.

I've just realised the ideal destination for you.....PLUTO!!

Apparently its surface is covered in liquid nitrogen. If they have any STD clinics to employ you , you wouldn't need a cryo-gun....just open the window and give those genital warts a blast!

And, best of all, it's 3.5 billion miles from earth

[Mad Dilys]

Do you realize ST that a lot of Spanish people think their country has gone to the dogs, thanks to the tourist industry? Not just Spain either.

They service the tourist impeccably and take their money, while concealing a deep seated contempt for their crudeness, vulgarity and arrogance.

[Who2]

Quote:
GD, Who2 and others say that it should be a "select"place for high brow tourists and those who "appreciate"the culture,the history,the "digging up"of the dead,etc.

Yes I agree, Spain is far more your type of place, kiss me quick hats some things never change.
Fly with Cosmos on Easyjet did you ?

Ideas take a bit of time for it to sink in, there is no beach here or sea for that matter, bit of a surprise eh ?....

[Jayway]

ST. Your tour guide was a LIAR. Activists have managed to close a FEW bullrings in Spain, the torture still goes on, I could send you a hundred videos. Look on my FB pages. Portugal is just as bad, the activists are trying, they get punched kicked and abused. At our local bullring the photographer for the newspaper had his nose broken and his camera smashed. No the bull doesnt die IN the ring, it dies outside. I did live in Spain for a while but could not stand the cruelty, especially the smaller town festas, how would you like to see a donkey thrown from the church tower and the crowd shouting OLE as with a sickening crunch it hits ground ? Stick with your beach holidays and dont look any further into the culture.

[newcastle]

By and large I found the Spanish pretty decent people....no different from the majority of Egyptians in that respect.

But some aspects of a cruel and backward society linger....I lived in Ibiza, part of Catalonia, where bullfights were banned a few years ago. However, it still features on prime time TV in all regions.

There are still several fiestas based around tormenting dumb animals.

Sexual harrassment is still an issue (as with other 'latin',macho cultures) . Fortunately, and unlike Egypt, the robust application of the law keeps it in check.

They no longer have capital punishment but when they did, the preferred method was the garotte....last employed in 1974.

But Spanish wine is leagues ahead of Egypt's

[Dusak]

The problem with most non slip applications, eventually they do tend to slide back on themselves.

[Yildez]

Do you realize ST that a lot of Spanish people think their country has gone to the dogs, thanks to the tourist industry? Not just Spain either.

They service the tourist impeccably and take their money, while concealing a deep seated contempt for their crudeness, vulgarity and arrogance.

Couldn't have put it better myself Mad Dilys. And it's exactly the same in Turkey in most of the tourist resorts that cater to Europeans.

[Horus]

They service the tourist impeccably and take their money, while concealing a deep seated contempt for their crudeness, vulgarity and arrogance

.

Couldn't have put it better myself Mad Dilys. And it's exactly the same in Turkey in most of the tourist resorts that cater to Europeans.

I don't think this is by any means a one way street, I am sure that many people in European destinations feel the same way towards many visitors from outside of Europe and equally condemn their bad habits and vulgarity, crudeness and arrogance.

[Scottishtourist]

They service the tourist impeccably and take their money, while concealing a deep seated contempt for their crudeness, vulgarity and arrogance.

That's a rather arrogant statement MD.

I'll just say that if they are "concealing"their contempt for us..then they are doing a helluva good job of it.
Unlike Egypt/Luxor,where their contempt is NOT concealed.And good service is a thing of the past!

How else do you explain the constant hassle,harassment,dual-pricing and rip-offs that occur there and are mainly aimed at tourists?
Respect is a two way street.And if Egypt/Luxor cannot respect visitors to their country..then we vote with our feet and go elsewhere.

[LovelyLadyLux]

They service the tourist impeccably and take their money, while concealing a deep seated contempt for their crudeness, vulgarity and arrogance.

I'm really not so sure about this. I think it is a stereotype about those working in the Hospitality Sector but I'm sure it would not really apply to the majority of those working in that industry. I think it is much more likely our own personal feelings being projected out there as to how 'we' would feel if 'we' had to serve others.

What is it that ALL tourists are doing to people in this industry that makes them so reviled? You can't tell me that all those working in the tourist industry in Spain have no options to work in something else? It takes lots of personal energy to develop and hold "deep seated contempt" for anything or anybody and I find it highly unlikely that all those Service Employees are in this mindset. I'd hazard that dealing with masses of tourists everyday might be mundane and boring and the Service Person might not really like the particular job they're doing but I'm not sure the majority of people working in the Tourist Industry generalize this level of feeling to ALL tourists coming to their country.

The Movers and Shakers of the Hospitality Industry ARE aware that their workers are serving other people. It is in the Owners best interests to ensure their clients (the tourists) are well served and hence they endeavor to hire responsive people person oriented staff who WANT to do the jobs they've been hired to do and do them well. The Owners have taken great pains and made great efforts to create Service Industry jobs as a profession with standards to achieve. They're also more than rigorous in handing out in house awards and commendations to those who have done a good job and served the clients aka tourists well.

I can't see that those who are running Hotels and Resorts are keeping staff who hold the attitudes you describe. Those Workers would implode on the job and I can hardly see any Established multi-thousand or multi-million dollar place wanting to chance the loss having workers like this would bring. Even taken to a smaller level I can't see how any small business owner would adopt this type of self-destructive attitude.

I can see certain locals and upper crusts not dependent or involved with the tourist trade to find tourists annoying as they probably disrupt their way of life however basically I think this is a modern day urban myth. Am sure there is the odd worker who might not like the job they have but the majority? AND if it IS the majority - then you're living in Luxor! And reaping the result of backward thinking that is in nobodies best interest.

[Major Thom]

Best not go to Turkey then if they feel this way. Mind you never been interested in Turkey anyway, even more so now they have terrorist among them bombing the place.
I am away for a few days now so will write a report to where I have been on my return....Sorry though its only Europe, where a lot of Brits want to get out of.

[Horus]

I am away for a few days now so will write a report to where I have been on my return....Sorry though its only Europe, where a lot of Brits want to get out of

Who's betting that the destination includes Windmills, Clogs and Gouda cheese?

[Who2]

Quote :.then we vote with our feet and go elsewhere.

Jesus that took a long to sink in then....

[HEPZIBAH]

Each time I see this thread I can't help but remember my own three, very different,visits to Spain. Just as some people have a negative experience in Luxor, if I was to dwell on holiday destination negatives Spain would be somewhere I had issues and would think of. In Spain I experienced inappropriate touching, and I don't just mean having my bum pinched. I experienced an attempted bag snatch. In a changing room in a shop I discovered the sales guy perving on a cctv camera. In a cafe I was grossly overcharged/short changed. I experienced food poisoning ( not just holiday tummy and I had to be treated for it with very nasty antibiotics after I returned home). At the time of my first visit, internal terrorism was still a concern in much of the country. All that being said, none of those experiences put me off the country, even if on one occasion I did lie face down on the beach and pray for the tide to come in and take me away. I would happily go back someday should the opportunity arise. It is a country full of rich and diverse scenery, localised traditions and culture, good food, and even the wine is drinkable ( but only in the country, when brought back to the UK it makes a good drain cleaner).
I don't believe anywhere is 100% perfect. Sometimes you have to deal with the negatives but you should never let them outweigh the positives that are, almost without exception, there, even if you don't always realise it at the time.