Anti-Morsi signature drive gathering steam, say organisers

[DJKeefy]

Political activists launch 'Rebellion' campaign, a signature drive aimed at delegitimizing Egyptian President Morsi and 'fomenting rebellion' against Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood.

Organisers of a new signature drive aimed at withdrawing confidence from President Mohamed Morsi say their campaign is gaining momentum, despite doubts as to the initiative's efficacy and the recent launch of a counter-campaign.

Unhappy with Egypt's Islamist government, young Egyptian activists have recently launched the Tamarod – or 'Rebellion' – campaign, to force Morsi off presidency and "fomenting rebellion against the Muslim Brotherhood," the group from which Morsi hails.

The initiative seeks to collect 15 million signatures in support of a vote of no-confidence in Morsi, outnumbering the roughly 13.2 million votes Morsi won in Egypt's first-ever free presidential polls last year, in which he narrowly beat Mubarak-era prime minister Ahmed Shafiq.

"The petition will eventually be submitted to the prosecutor-general to strip President Morsi of his post," Ahmed El-Masry, a founding member of the campaign, told Ahram Online.

The campaign hopes to conclude with a million-strong rally outside the Presidential Palace in Cairo's Heliopolis district to demand snap presidential elections.

"Yet again, we've managed to bring the Egyptian people together," El-Masry said. "No retreat this time – not until we attain our ultimate goal: democracy."

According to organisers, the campaign is currently active in 19 out of Egypt's 27 governorates, as well as in nine foreign countries.

Claiming to employ some 6,000 volunteers, the group says it has already managed to collect more than two million signatures – with 800,000 claimed signatures in Cairo alone. While the movement was officially established on 22 April, it only began campaigning in earnest on 1 May.

The campaign has given itself a 30 June deadline to fulfill its stated objective, exactly one year since Morsi's assumption of the presidency, campaign spokesman Mahmoud Badr explained in a recent televised interview. The date, Badr asserted, will "mark one year of political, social and economic failure."

Egypt's non-Islamist opposition has accused President Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood of attempting to monopolise state institutions and stifle dissent. These fears were compounded by an Islamist-tinged constitution that was approved in a nationwide popular referendum late last year.


'Absurd,' 'useless'

While some critics question the campaign's expected efficacy, several opposition political forces appear to have endorsed it. These include Egypt's 6 April Youth Movement, liberal Constitution Party, Socialist Popular Alliance Party and Strong Egypt Party, founded by former Brotherhood leading figure Abdel-Monem Abul-Fotouh.

President Morsi's Islamist allies, for their part, have been quick to dismiss the signature campaign, which Brotherhood spokesman Ahmed Aref recently described as "absurd" and "useless."

"It's not about who can mobilise and gather signatures, or else the Brotherhood would have done so under the Mubarak regime," Aref told Al-Ahram's Arabic-language news website on Sunday. "The ballot box is the democratic means by which the public must express itself."

Prominent Muslim Brotherhood lawyer Abdel-Moneim Abdel-Maqsoud has also questioned the campaign's legality.

He told Ahram Online that the campaign was "illegal since the hijacking of political [democratic] legitimacy constitutes a violation of the law."

Several campaign members were briefly detained by police while promoting the signature drive at Cairo and Sohag universities.


Counter-campaigns

In response to the signature-collecting campaign, a handful of counter-movements have recently sprung into action to show solidarity with Egypt's embattled president.

On Sunday, Assem Abdel-Maged, a leading member of Egypt's ultra-conservative Al-Gamaa Al-Islamiya group, announced the launch of a counter-initiative in the Upper Egyptian city of Qena.

A response to the anti-Morsi signature drive, he says the campaign aims to muster support for President Morsi in Upper Egypt.

The presidency, for its part, has declined to comment on the signature drive. Presidential spokesman Ehab Fahmy has stressed, however, that Egypt's new constitution guarantees the right to peaceful protest and expression.

In 2010, before Egypt's Tahrir Square uprising, reform campaigner Mohamed ElBaradei managed to collect one million signatures – in less than seven months – for a petition demanding constitutional reform.

The petition, for which ElBaradei joined forces with the Muslim Brotherhood through his National Association for Change umbrella group, represented the country's largest-ever political petition during the Hosni Mubarak era.

Source: http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/71379.aspx

[Chocolate Eclair]

This is a Political situation that could get out of hand, lets hope it stays calm and violence does not erupt.

[Dusak]

I can understand and appreciate their motivation, but I just hope that it doesn't lead to another red dawn.

[Hafiz]

Haven't there been Presidential elections less than 11 months ago and a vote on the constitution 5 months ago and aren't Parliamentary elections proposed in the next few months. Seems more than enough testing of the majority view.

They have not alleged illegal Presidential actions as a basis for removal just that they don't like him. Well they can say that at the next election.

The Constitution does not provide for the removal of the President by petition so the petition proposal is extra constitutional and possibly treason. Even if it was legal 15 million is not a majority of Egyptian voters which begs the question why the organizers would propose such an anti-democratic process to remove a majority President with a minority vote from their privately supervised petition process. No democracy in the world would allow removal by a minority.

Imagine if there was an attempt in the US to do the same. The courts and the FBI would close it down - on the other hand a simple grievance petition would be different.

These people spout democratic and rule of law rhetoric but resort to, possibly, illegal and definably reckless, means when elections and the courts don't go their way.

By promising the 15 million citizens who sign that this is a possible way to remove the President raises their expectations on something that is bound to fail. Frustrated expectations will only cause trouble.

On a slightly different point, even if they got the 15 million signatures how could the rest possibly work. Only a court or Parliament can remove the president, not the prosecutor and then only for serious abuses which is not the case so far. In any event the prosecutor general is appointed by the government of the day. The executive would remove him at a minutes notice if he proposed to act on such a petition. These people know this but still promise that it could be done.

The petition organizers are selective in their targets. Did they ever propose a petition to remove the tyrant Mubarak or his successor the secret policeman Shafiq? I wonder why not. Don't forget that the urban areas were prepared to elect the monster Shafiq against Morsi so, after removing Mubarak, they still preferred the little Mubarak to any other. These self proclaimed revolutionaries, including the youth 6 April Movement, are starting to look like reactionaries.

These people get 0 out of 10 for politics and law 101 and confirm my view that the Secularists are as stupid as they are unaccepting of democratic majority rule and the rule of law. This is just their stunt to produce a petition a mile long, inflame passions and raise expectations rather than do the hard work of building a liberal party machine outside Cairo. Only when their machine is built will they get the votes to be effective players in the democracy and start to get what they want.

I suspect that they are wistful for the days when private deals and the privileged position of Cairo delivered more benefits for them and kept the rural Muslim masses in their box. The cities removed Mubarak without considering what might follow him. Be careful what you wish (democracy), you might get it.

[Zooropa]

The current government are about as democratic as the last shower.


If there is no provision for a vote of no confidence, dates for elections that appear to keep sliding and finally the arrest of people for making comment on religion then how anyone could claim they are democratic without bursting into hysterics is a candidate for the funny farm.

[LovelyLadyLux]

To sign or not to sign (a petition)......hmmmm.......??? Over the years I've been asked off and on to sign different petitions for this or that and by and large I've refused. Sometimes I have but most often not. I often wonder if everybody who signs the petition will stand behind their signature, if they really believe IN the cause and don't just sign cause they were asked (and didn't want to say no) and are all the signatures real? I've never been asked for ID when I've been asked to sign a Petition so I could have signed Queen Liz and nobody later could have said whether or not it was ME or Liz!

Would you sign a petition? Do you sign petitions?

[Dusak]

Many years ago while shopping in a very bad mood, I was asked twice by the same air head to sign a petition, once going into the shop, and again coming out of the same shop. So I signed it as Mr. Donald Duck, Pond Walk, waggleton. She looked at it, smiled and thanked me for my support. Reason for petition? Haven't a clue but I just hope The Readers Digest are still attempting to notify Mr. Duck that he is in the final stages of the cash draw. And others when these collectors sell the information on to a third party.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Exactly my point Dusak - Mostly petitions are collected on the street. Nobody checks IDs or verifies any demographic info. This is why I don't personally tend to favour petitions and really tend not to sign them. Can't see that collecting petitions in Egypt would really be any different - I mean how many Mohamed Mohameds can there be?

[KJB]

Apparently, the petition-signer(s) have to put their ID card number too.

[LovelyLadyLux]

@ KJB - that would be terrrific if official ID numbers had to be recorded. I'm probably jaded because of the number of petitions over the years I've been asked to sign where you sign your name, print your name and put in your address. Has seemed like nobody has ever checked or verified if I'm Donald Duck or LovelyLadyLux

[Hafiz]

Just my point Dusak and LovelyLadyLux - a self administered petition is a bit like a medical self diagnosis, totally unreliable. Your points about amateur hour are also relevant - what professional political party would use such a lame method to seize power - people hanging out in shopping malls, canvassing door to door.

That they are amateurs or crude manipulators of dissent is also shown by their half thought out objective. Lets say they get the numbers and remove Morsi. Who replaces him? There is no vice president. The only body that can appoint a replacement is the Parliament and both houses are dominated by the Islamic interest. Removing him won't benefit the interests of the 'petitioners' there will be an appointment of another brother.

It is difficult to believe that a half arsed strategy with outcomes unfeasible, illegal and with no conceivable benefit to the 'petitioners' interests is other than an incitement to more dissent and trouble. On the other hand the organizers could be the biggest fools in recent political history and, if so, confirm my view that they are unfitted for any political responsibilities.

Zooropa - The current Parliament and President were elected by the people in elections which no one has proved were other than reasonably fair. The President has followed all court decisions about his actions notwithstanding that the courts are entirely populated by stooges of the tyrant Mubarak whom they never opposed at the time. That they have struck down many of the current government decisions should come as no surprise, but what is surprising is the forbearance of the Government in the face of partisanship of the freshly emboldened judges.

The free speech issue. Well, I could be wrong, but hasn't the previous or current governments passed a law about 'defemation. Would it not be antidemocratic to not enforce laws. Has anyone been sent to jail and if they have has anyone said that the judge was wrong/corrupt (bearing in mind that many would be corrupt, but in the Mubarak rather than the Morsi way). Would it not be anti democratic for a judge to acquit a person of an offense under a valid law when the evidence supported the charge.

As regards the delayed elections. Aren't court decisions and not the government responsible for this. If the delay is legal how can this be anti democratic. Hve the courts declared delay illegal.

There is a lot of bull about the actions of, and Islamicization by, the Government. Most of it is a beat up, a lot of it is Cairo rhetoric (the rage of the powerless and the frustrations of the self inflicted victims). Logic and the most basic knowledge of the constitution shows it to be absolutely wrong. I think its likely the government has an Islamic agenda, is anti - democratic or has such elements and would behave illegally. However, my point is, that the evidence of any of these things is, at this stage, very thin.

If anyone can show me any proven illegalities of the government, any failure to follow court directions after decisions have been found unlawful, any proven cases, by the Governmentt, of actions to further Islamicization, and proven cases, by the Governmentt, of the suppression of dissent, other than for public order purposes, then I would be happy to have a look at it and admit I was wrong.

You say that the government is as democratic as the last shower - what do you mean bearing in mind that rain and showers are rare commodities in Egypt

[Zooropa]

Hafiz, I made no reference to "unlawful" I said undemocratic.

They could enshrine into law the charging of people with dark hair twice as much tax as those with light hair and it would be lawful but it does not make it right or fair.

I have no idea if the delaying of elections is possible under current Egyptian law but I am prepared to take your word for it.

Ok its lawful, fine, I also happen to think its undemocratic.

As for explaining what I mean by "shower", i am a realist, I don't think I would have much luck in achieving that request given your views on the meaning and use of the word "attack" which you have commented on in another thread.

[Dusak]

Its a good point placing their ID numbers on the papers, makes it that so much easier to go out for a little nighttime fishing. I can see the headlines in the local press, Egyptian government unveils plans to reduce Egypt's population explosion and bring peace to the streets. Also vast areas of the Sinai desert are now classified as areas of high sensitivity so will be closed to the public eye while crop controls are being instigated.

[KJB]

The friend who told me about the requirement for ID cards was very nervous about giving the information, the worry being that there may be repercussions for the signers. Her family and work colleagues had been trying to talk her out of signing because of the fear of reprisals.

I think the petition itself is more symbolic than anything. A way of registering disagreement with what is being done or not being done. All petitions are just a way of getting an issue in front of the right people (ideally) and, very often, as a way of shining a light on a nasty situation in a way that can, sometimes, have an effect on outcomes. I doubt that will happen in this case, but its a better approach than violence and gives pacifist, non-protest type people a chance to be counted.

[LovelyLadyLux]

@KJB - good post and a petition does give pacifists a way to indicate their views.

[Hafiz]

Zooropa - Laws in Egypt are made under the constitution which makes illegal laws on hair color. The constitution protects from, and the courts declare illegal, any discriminatory laws or presidential decisions or any anti-democratic decisions against the constitution. To this extent the Constitution and courts protect the democracy. Some may argue that the constitution offers only weak protections and that the courts are weak. Probably both are true but the constitution was voted on by a majority not long ago and, in any event, Egypt has to play with the weak cards it is dealt.

For those who live in the UK there is no constitutional protection of democracy because there is no constitution, but this is a cheap debating point. A law to discriminate against persons of a certain color would be perfectly legal in the UK.

My point about 'illegality' is that a President could be removed for that. In the current situation the President has not committed any illegalities and therefore the petition for his removal is based solely on dislike not for any legal reasons.

KJB's and LovelyLadyLux's point about voicing dissent misses the point - the petition is for Morsi's removal and that it will therefore inflame rather than pacify. Proposing his removal is an anti democratic act as well as unhelpful in these unstable times for Egypt. Egyptians should be trying to work together rather than trying to seize power from a democratically elected president who won over a spy master. Don't forget that the liberals (who are behind this petition) voted for this brute. He rose to power under a tyrant so his democratic credentials weren't so good. But the liberals conveniently forget their past, probably long for the protection of the tyrant and hate the Islamicists.

[Zooropa]

Working together?

For some, it would seem that would involve keeping your mouth shut and not voicing your opinion.

Working together is a nice concept if it were the kind of democracy that most of us on the outside have and are used to.

Try telling the teacher who was thrown in jail for voicing their opinion that its just a case of "working together"

All of this is just a play on words and i repeat the current situation is not the kind of democracy that those of us who have it would want or recognise.

[Dusak]

This government should take a leaf out of our book here on the forum as we continually work in a state of smooth synergy.