How old is civilisation. Is the Sphinx 54000 years old?

[Aromagician]

Just watched this video on youtube, he says the sphinx is actually a statue of Tefnut and is 54000 years old.

phpBB [video]

There are many artefacts and claims that date humankind to earlier that archaeologists would have us think.

[newcastle]

Damn.

There goes my theory that it was carved by aliens from a planet circling Sirius B.

[Aromagician]

Well it could always be a bit if both . A collaboration perhaps? There is a lot of geological data regarding the age of many if Egyptians monuments.
Giving credence to the theory of the rise and fall if civilization prior to the time span our historians have given us.
One would have to be naive or extremely short sighted to suggest that in the galaxy to which we belong that we are the only intelligent life form. Why else are the scientists spending so much time and effort looking for the Goldilocks planet? One with a atmosphere similar to ours. I do wonder though what the repercussions of such a move would be. As we are organisms of Earth and so reliant on her food and minerals and conditions to live. But that is another thread all together .


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[A-Four]

Civilisation, where did it begin?

Good question Aromagician, and nice to hear from you.

I think we have to look at the old trade routes, some would say China, I would put my money on a place called Great Zimbabwe in Central Africa. Even today archeological study is quite difficult. Findings of a very advanced civilisation even in the Bronze Age have been recorded, though suppressed by 'them there white people', who in the Victorian and Edwardian era would not possibly accept that this could be achieved by a nation of black people.

Even these days with the Internet, it is still difficult to do research on this area, but do have a look. A friend who worked out there for 20 years told me, it would be like telling the world you had just discovered an electric sewing machine in a sealed tomb from the 20th Dynasty Egypt, so advanced were these people, who then seemed to disappear.

[Who2]

When I was a kid I tried to get a job in The Museum of Mankind,
just so I could nick the then unknown and unheard of Benin Bronzes,
today each individual piece is worth a million quid....'ignorance is bliss..

[newcastle]

Civilization (or civilisation) comes from the Latin word civis meaning someone who lives in a town. When people are civilised, they live in large well-organized groups like towns, not in small tribes or isolated family groups.

However, a civilization is something more than a town. It is an advanced stage of organisation. That means it has laws, culture, a regular way of getting food and protecting the people. Most civilizations have agriculture, and a system of government like monarchs or elections. They speak a common language, and usually have a religion of some kind. They teach their young the knowledge they need. All civilizations since the Sumerians and the Egyptians have some kind of writing. Writing lets people store and build up knowledge.

Great Zimbabwe, A-Four, is only 1000 years or so old.

As far as terrestrial civilisations are concerned we're looking at 4000 BCE or thereabouts.

As for extra-terrestrials, we come up against the basic laws of physics and the vast distances involved to the nearest potentially habitable world.

OK....you can postulate the existence of a very advanced civilisation from a galaxy far far away, which has mastered near light speed travel, or teleportation, but you'd have to wonder why, having popped over to planet earth, they confined themselves to carving a monolithic piece of rock in the desert!

Pseudoarchaeologists will ramble on about Ooparts (out of place artifacts) despite the fact that most, nearly all, have proved to be hoaxes or to have mundane explanations.

I get the feeling that the supporters of unconventional histories are generally suggesting different theories simply for the sake of being.....well....different

On a more serious note, I sat through Jacob Bronowski's wonderful "Ascent of Man" the other day....all 12 hours plus of it...... in one sitting.

Who said life in Egypt is boring

[Aromagician]

I disagree there are many discoveries that have not been proven as hoaxes and are proof if advanced technologies before that time frame . Stephen Hawking is no dumbie and his theory is if the human race continues to advance as they have in the last 50?years and to use up all the resources the next logical step would be to build huge space travel ships and cruise the galaxy looking for a goldilocks planet . So therefore we could assume that 1) other planetary brings may have done the same and
2) perhaps other ancient civilizations in the earth have done a similar cycle already. Used it all up then disappear leaving the earth to replenish.


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[newcastle]

And the evidence for these past civilisations......?

Care to give me some of these 'discoveries ' ....or any 'proof' of advanced technologies?

[newcastle]

And the evidence for these past civilisations.....?

Care to give me some of these 'many discoveries'...or 'proof of advanced technologies '?

[carrie]

Well there is a painting of an helicopter in Abydos

[newcastle]

And an electric light bulb in the crypt of the temple of Hathor at Dendera

[Aromagician]

Here is from one of the great websites- www.ancientexplorers.com that covers a lot of these finds.
I am just watching the full documentary on DWarka now. They did have a similar one on Egyptian history. Here is the trailer

phpBB [video]

[Aromagician]

Graham Hancock has some interesting evidence

phpBB [video]

[Aromagician]

Geologist Dr Robert Schoch has a convincing argument re the sphinx, after studying the erosion of the body and the surrounding area.

phpBB [video]

The weathering seems to be created from rain. The core body is older, whilst the head was recarved in dynastic times.

He presented his data but the archaeologists and Egyptologists were livid at his research, and became quite nasty to him.

He had a forensic scientist compare the face of the sphinx with Khafre from his statues and concluded they were not the same person, and not even the same ethnic group.
http://www.robertschoch.com/sphinxcontent.html
His website here lists his evidence. He dates it about 10000 years old . Here is an excerpt from his webpage

Back in the early 1990s, when I first suggested that the Great Sphinx was much older than generally believed at the time, I was challenged by Egyptologists who asked, "Where is the evidence of that earlier civilization?" that could have built the Sphinx. They were sure that sophisticated culture, what we call civilization, did not exist prior to about 3000 or 4000 B.C. Now, however, there is clear evidence of high culture dating back over 10,000 years ago, at a site in Turkey known as Göbekli Tepe. A major mystery has been why these early glimmerings of civilization and high culture disappeared, only to reemerge thousands of years later. I have now developed a theory, backed up by scientific evidence, to explain why. This I elaborate on in my book, Forgotten Civilization: The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Future.

[carrie]

That's him who went oohing and whaaing whilst lay in the sarcophagus in the great pyramid trying to get in touch with "the others".

[newcastle]

If you want to put the origin of "civilisation" back to 10,000 BCE, I don't have a problem with that.....to some extent it's a matter of semantics......how we define "civilisation" . The Gobleki Tepe site clearly indicates neolithic activity much earlier than previously thought.....although, to date, not much evidence of settled communities, farming etc. which some would require in a definition of "civilisation".

If you want to put back the carving of the body of the Sphinx to 10,000 BCE, I don't have a problem with that either. I've always felt uncomfortable with the hypothesis that the whole structure is circa 2500BCE. The geological evidence is quite compelling.

What I do have a problem with is calling any of this "advanced"!

And as for visitors from outer space.....I am totally dismissive of the idea in the absence of any evidence.

Thank you Aromagician, for the Robert Schoch interview......most interesting. A true scientist, unlike the eyptologists who rubbished his hypothesis because their minds are as fossilised as the artifacts they study. The measure of a true scientist is to continually review, and revise, on the basis of verifiable evidence.

[Brian Yare]

Civilization (or civilisation) comes from the Latin word civis meaning someone who lives in a town.

A city, surely. A town is urbus - hence urban.

Brian the pedant.

[Aromagician]

Thank you Brian . I was wondering myself why Newcastle felt the need to give such a detailed explanation . I think my theory if advanced ancient civilization is more than some can envisage ?

Really how hard is it picture that humans became advanced and in the process destroyed most if themselves and a good chunk of what they had built In the process...

Look at any place after a major earthquake or disaster and see how long it takes to recover to what it was. If at all .


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[Who2]

Try asking David Rohl 'he reckons he's a genius on chronology....

[newcastle]

Really how hard is it picture that humans became advanced and in the process destroyed most if themselves and a good chunk of what they had built In the process...

Look at any place after a major earthquake or disaster and see how long it takes to recover to what it was. If at all .


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But to leave nothing....nothing at all....apart from a few monolithic columns or a carved limestone ?

Stretching credulity.

What do you mean by 'advanced' ? Advanced enough to wipe themselves, and their advanced structures, from the earth without a trace?

Surely you're not calling Gobekli Tepe or the Sphinx 'advanced'?