Menkaure....

[Who2]

These have always been my favourite carvings...

More fun than digging up potatoes...

This is one of theirs...

But this is one of mine...

Ps; Shame that the sculptor (abdel haag) pbuh from Karnak made his legs to short...

[Horus]

Dr your 3rd statue is of Amenhotep III and from the Luxor museum unless I am mistaken, so why Menkaure?

[newcastle]

I recognise the first photo......wonderful statues of Menkaure & others, discovered in a Giza pit in 1910.

In the Boston Museum of Fine Arts now...I think.

[A-Four]

Not sure, but I think the dear Dr is encouraging us to look at quite clever copies.

I am sure many remember the old Museum Shop, just on the corner (off the Cornishe) near the old Etap, I bet many also remember the great fat man who run the place. The only genuine antiques in there were the Roman coins, everything else was fake. Having said that, these fakes were the most excellent copies that were only sold to knowledgeable persons, and certainly not to your average tourists. The craftsmen who worked on such reproductions were the finest you could find,..........except for one man.

There was one artist, and I am most careful to use that word, who was employed by the Antiquities Authority in Cairo, that made copies that believe it or not are on display today. Difficult for you to believe I am sure, so I will give you a fine example. The famous Tomb of Nakht is perhaps the finest of all the Nobles tombs on the WB, the wall decorations are exquisite, however, the statue of Nakht, holding a stela with the 'Hymn of Ra' is a fake, check the initials on the side, near the base.The original was lost at sea while being transported to the U.S.A. in 1915.

Why am I saying this now ? .............Well the great gentleman artist in question recently died, and although a local man up there in Tariffe WB, very few outsiders knew of him.

P.S.- I have often wondered how many fakes by this man are currently on show in The world, or even Egypt for that matter. .

[Horus]

The only 'fake' I can see is the last one, the third is definately from the 1987 Luxor Temple cache and is of Amenhotep III

[newcastle]

The first photo from the Doctor is a 1915 original of the excavated pit from which several fine pieces were recovered. The seated Hathor is in the Boston Museum of Fine Arts.

The following two pictures show genuine artifacts.

No 2 is Menkaure between Hathor and Bat, in the Cairo Museum (recovered from the pit...see 1st photo)

No 3, I agree with Horus, is Amenhoep III in Luxor Museum

The last photo, as the Doctor clearly states, is of a copy.

The stelophore statue of Nakht in his tomb TT52 is a fine replica...no need to give it the pejorative title of "fake". Such an important piece would, in any event, not have been left in situ.

As you say, the original was lost..... torpedoed in transit in WWI.

For anyone interested in the history of this piece :

• The kneeling statue of Nakht. The best known of these is that of the 40cm high kneeling statue of Nakht, created in fine white limestone.

When Davies commenced his work of copying the tomb for the Egyptian Expedition of the Metropolitan Museum in 1908-9, he assumed that the subterranean chamber had been already been cleared, which wasn't the case. It was only in March, 1915, that he undertook this task and was immediately rewarded by the discovery of the statue, which had been flung down the shaft on its right side. This probably occurred when the burial chamber was rifled subsequent to the heretical movement of the Eighteenth Dynasty - the name Amon had been removed. Except for injuries to the left elbow and knee, caused by the fall, the statuette was practically undamaged and its brick-red flesh and the black of the hair had retained their brightness and colour.

Later in 1915, the statue was shipped to New York. On the way there, the steamer "Arabic" was torpedoed by a German submarine off the coast of Ireland, and was sunk. This resulted in the loss of the statue, all that now remains are Davies' original photographs and replicas, such as the one currently seen in the niche at the back of the rear chamber.

The statue is that of a kneeling figure in a simple Egyptian white kilt, presenting an upright stela-shaped slab. If this had been located in the rear niche, and facing the entrance of the complex, it would (in theory) have faced the rising sun, making the textual content more in keeping. At the top of the stela are the pair of udjat-eyes, separated by a shen-ring and a nun-dish.

The stela-shaped slab had eight rows of yellow inscribed hieroglyphs with the following address to the Sun-god : "An adoration of Re, from the time of his rising, until he sets in life, by the serving priest of [Amon], the scribe Nakht, justified. 'Hail to you, Re at your rising, Atum at your beautiful setting. You appear and gleam on the back of your mother. You have appeared as king [of the gods]. Nut performs the nini-greeting before your face. Ma'at embraces you always. You traverse the heavens with a glad heart, the sea of knives (a locality in the celestial world through which Re passes) has become peaceful, the venomous enemy is felled, his hands are bound and knives have severed his vertebrae.

http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/nobles/ ... kht_06.htm

[A-Four]

It would be so wonderful if wiki could give us all, the name of the great artist. R.I.P.

[Horus]

Obviously you do, but not everyone relies upon Wiki for their information, don't be so condecending towards everyone other than yourself.

[A-Four]

Obviously you do, but not everyone relies upon Wiki for their information, don't be so condecending towards everyone other than yourself.

My comment is directed to the likes of the Egyptian authorities, who even now will not recognise this great man's craftsmanship, who incidentally, only ever worked directly for the antiquities authority. I say again R.I.P. to this dear humble man.

Of course you, as usual can write whatever, that is what a forum is all about, but I think even others here can see, most of your comments towards me are rather venomous, but then again, I know not of your life. .

[Horus]

Of course I can write what I like, as can you, my comments are no more venomous than yours are pompous.
You start your contribution by making references to 'fakes' when none of the statues pictured (other than the last) is actually a fake, so I am only questioning your motives, which as usual is to appear to be superior to the rest of us. You refer to a 'great man' while giving no information whatsoever about that person, you just allude to another bit of your 'insider' knowledge, but as usual give nothing of any real use to anyone, it is always nudge, nudge, wink wink with you because you always want to appear more in the know than anyone else on this forum, something you fail miserably to do. You make disparaging remarks about people gaining their information from the likes of Wiki etc. but disregard that anyone other than you has either studied the subject for years, visited most of the places where these artefacts may be found, seen them with their own eyes, or maybe even have extensive literary material of their own to refer to, so where exactly do you get all of your information from if not from the same sources?

As to me being venomous, well you made your feelings about me very clear A4 when you told me to “**** *** back to the other forum” now I see that as being venomous, so I intend to respond to you in the same vein. When you stop setting yourself up as superior to everyone else who posts a topic on Egyptology and stop making posts that do not constantly boast about yourself and your imagined insider knowledge, then I and others will probably stop shooting you down. And as you say ......... you know nothing of my life, so stop trying to second guess it because as usual, you will be wrong

[A-Four]

Of course I can write what I like, as can you, my comments are no more venomous than yours are pompous.
You start your contribution by making references to 'fakes' when none of the statues pictured (other than the last) is actually a fake, so I am only questioning your motives, which as usual is to appear to be superior to the rest of us. You refer to a 'great man' while giving no information whatsoever about that person, you just allude to another bit of your 'insider' knowledge, but as usual give nothing of any real use to anyone, it is always nudge, nudge, wink wink with you because you always want to appear more in the know than anyone else on this forum, something you fail miserably to do. You make disparaging remarks about people gaining their information from the likes of Wiki etc. but disregard that anyone other than you has either studied the subject for years, visited most of the places where these artefacts may be found, seen them with their own eyes, or maybe even have extensive literary material of their own to refer to, so where exactly do you get all of your information from if not from the
As to me being venomous, well you made your feelings about me very clear A4 when you told me to “**** *** back to the other forum” now I see that as being venomous, so I intend to respond to you in the same vein. When you stop setting yourself up as superior to everyone else who posts a topic on Egyptology and stop making posts that do not constantly boast about yourself and your imagined insider knowledge, then I and others will probably stop shooting you down. And as you say ......... you know nothing of my life, so stop trying to second guess it because as usual, you will be wrong

Very interesting, and most revealing. .

[A-Four]

Of course I can write what I like, as can you, my comments are no more venomous than yours are pompous.
You start your contribution by making references to 'fakes' when none of the statues pictured (other than the last) is actually a fake, so I am only questioning your motives, which as usual is to appear to be superior to the rest of us. You refer to a 'great man' while giving no information whatsoever about that person, you just allude to another bit of your 'insider' knowledge, but as usual give nothing of any real use to anyone, it is always nudge, nudge, wink wink with you because you always want to appear more in the know than anyone else on this forum, something you fail miserably to do. You make disparaging remarks about people gaining their information from the likes of Wiki etc. but disregard that anyone other than you has either studied the subject for years, visited most of the places where these artefacts may be found, seen them with their own eyes, or maybe even have extensive literary material of their own to refer to, so where exactly do you get all of your information from if not from the same sources?

As to me being venomous, well you made your feelings about me very clear A4 when you told me to “**** *** back to the other forum” now I see that as being venomous, so I intend to respond to you in the same vein. When you stop setting yourself up as superior to everyone else who posts a topic on Egyptology and stop making posts that do not constantly boast about yourself and your imagined insider knowledge, then I and others will probably stop shooting you down. And as you say ......... you know nothing of my life, so stop trying to second guess it because as usual, you will be wrong

Most interesting, and quite revealing. .

[A-Four]

Of course I can write what I like, as can you, my comments are no more venomous than yours are pompous.
You start your contribution by making references to 'fakes' when none of the statues pictured (other than the last) is actually a fake, so I am only questioning your motives, which as usual is to appear to be superior to the rest of us. You refer to a 'great man' while giving no information whatsoever about that person, you just allude to another bit of your 'insider' knowledge, but as usual give nothing of any real use to anyone, it is always nudge, nudge, wink wink with you because you always want to appear more in the know than anyone else on this forum, something you fail miserably to do. You make disparaging remarks about people gaining their information from the likes of Wiki etc. but disregard that anyone other than you has either studied the subject for years, visited most of the places where these artefacts may be found, seen them with their own eyes, or maybe even have extensive literary material of their own to refer to, so where exactly do you get all of your information from if not from the same sources?

As to me being venomous, well you made your feelings about me very clear A4 when you told me to “**** *** back to the other forum” now I see that as being venomous, so I intend to respond to you in the same vein. When you stop setting yourself up as superior to everyone else who posts a topic on Egyptology and stop making posts that do not constantly boast about yourself and your imagined insider knowledge, then I and others will probably stop shooting you down. And as you say ......... you know nothing of my life, so stop trying to second guess it because as usual, you will be wrong

Very interesting, and quite revealing. .

[newcastle]

It would be so wonderful if wiki could give us all, the name of the great artist. R.I.P.

Pray tell.

If you know.......and if it's not a State secret

[Who2]

I know the greatest artist/copyist still alive who is barred from any tomb or diggings by the authorities.
He also has an agreement with them so they are able to identify any of his work, but he can also name many of his 'sculptures
in some of the world's great museums.
He is also a manic depressive.....

[carrie]

When I went last to the Egyptian museum I searched for a statue that I love. A very small man, a scribe, sittiing with his wife and two children. I have seen it there before but couldn't find it again. Does anyone know who I mean and since I don't know the name of the man can't look it up to see a photo. Help please. In clear and unambiguous language.
Also some time ago there was talk of a museum being opened in Hurghada and some of the treasures from Luxor museum being transferred anyone heard any more about it?

[Horus]

Carrie, is it possibly the one of Seneb who was the chief of the palace dwarfs you are referring to? He is shown seated on a sort of shelf with his two children standing below him and his wife holding his arm?

[carrie]

That's it thanks.

[Dusak]

If they are to build this new museum in Hurghada, then why take what we have when the museum of Cairo has countless thousands of items in storage that the general public never sees? I also think that the now abandoned building that stands on the corniche that the two sisters had their lives ended should be opened as a small museum or visitors center towards encouraging tourists or at least the local people.

[newcastle]

I know the greatest artist/copyist still alive who is barred from any tomb or diggings by the authorities.
He also has an agreement with them so they are able to identify any of his work, but he can also name many of his 'sculptures
in some of the world's great museums.
He is also a manic depressive.....

Not doing an "A-Four" on us ....are you? Who's your manic depressive friend?

The art world is replete with fakes and Egyptian artifacts are prime targets. I remember Shaun Greenhalgh knocking up a calcite "Amarna Princess" in his backyard and flogging it to the Bolton Museum for over 400,000 quid!!