Blocked Web-Sites-Implications

[Hafiz]

Blocked Web-Sites.

According to this Egyptian commercial news web-site there have been:
‘57 blocked since May 24, according to the Association for Freedom of Thought and Expression, a non-government organisation tracking the affected sites through software that monitors outages.’ http://egyptcmnews.com/story-z3634236

Didn’t realize there were so many.

Is it an opportune time to discuss taking action so that there is no risk that Luxor4u will come to attention?

I for one am prepared to be more discreet.

Seems reasonable to assume that all that money spent on that Italian Spy-Ware has been put to use over the past few years and that there is nothing lacking to monitor pretty much everything in Egypt and to download monitoring software onto personal devices.

If worth discussing then maybe suggested rules could be put forward. Better to anticipate than just sit and wait. Maybe better to discuss individual action/responsibility rather than just leave it to the overworked Moderators.

It would be unfortunate if any debate got bogged down in a free-speech debate – a la ‘I have a right to say anything I want’. The issue here is rather what might need to be done to keep the ship afloat (if indeed there is any real risk of problems and if I am not over reacting)

Comments please.

[newcastle]

My initial impression is that they are targeting "news" sites rather than general forums.

The briefest perusal of the millions of Egypt-orientated websites will show opinions and comments antagonistic to the current regime. Without closing them all down, the government cannot entirely suppress dissent.

Is L4U likely to be on their radar? I doubt it.

Are personal remarks by a member likely to result in action against that member, or the site? It's always possible I suppose. I can think of someone who's personal diatribe (against the army - and in relation to the events in Rabaa square) on a site they administer may have contributed to their being denied entry to Egypt. However, the site itself remains online...and the admin continues to post remarks which could be construed as anti-government.

I think there are "red lines" which we should be aware of.

Insulting Religion, the President, the Army...are actually criminal offences in Egypt.

Spreading "false news" likewise.

However, I think the government is perfectly aware that not everyone in the country is a fan and is accepting of a degree of criticism...provided it doesn't cross any red lines.

[Zooropa]

Blocked Web-Sites.

According to this Egyptian commercial news web-site there have been:
‘57 blocked since May 24, according to the Association for Freedom of Thought and Expression, a non-government organisation tracking the affected sites through software that monitors outages.’ http://egyptcmnews.com/story-z3634236

Didn’t realize there were so many.

Is it an opportune time to discuss taking action so that there is no risk that Luxor4u will come to attention?

I for one am prepared to be more discreet.

Seems reasonable to assume that all that money spent on that Italian Spy-Ware has been put to use over the past few years and that there is nothing lacking to monitor pretty much everything in Egypt and to download monitoring software onto personal devices.

If worth discussing then maybe suggested rules could be put forward. Better to anticipate than just sit and wait. Maybe better to discuss individual action/responsibility rather than just leave it to the overworked Moderators.

It would be unfortunate if any debate got bogged down in a free-speech debate – a la ‘I have a right to say anything I want’. The issue here is rather what might need to be done to keep the ship afloat (if indeed there is any real risk of problems and if I am not over reacting)

Comments please.

What do you mean by "discreet"?

Posting under a false identity?

Talking in code?

In my view there are no degrees of free speech, you either have it or you dont.

Perhaps its a tad easy for me to say living in a country that allows free speech (in most but not all cases) but i wouldnt be interested in contributing anything opinionated if i had to sensor it to any agree.

[Hafiz]

Newcastle - if the 57 figure is accurate it goes well beyond the 13 or so 'news-sites' closed a few weeks ago and which were mentioned in local newspapers at the time. Its not clear to me but more recent events may be moving into the Luxor4u area/forums/chat-sites area.

Maybe there are local opinions on this which take account of what seems to be broader action that goes beyond the specific action on the major news-sites.

Zooropa - you miss my point. Posting under an individual false identity won't stop a site being closed down for its overall content.

My point is whether any action needs to be taken in current circumstances to ensure its survival? Maybe everything is better than I think - I hope it is. I only raise the issue.

[Dusak]

If the powers that be feel the need to close any website operating in Egypt, then, presumably, they could/would/. If this forum closed, although I would suddenly find myself with quite a bit more free time on my hands per week, it is easy to find other sites and join them for a chat or an exchange of views. And you could always count on MT being an already member, so you would not feel like a newbie. But personally I doubt that ever happening as this site is the only reliable source of information for them to see and understand what is happening within their own borders.

[newcastle]

@ Hafiz

Newcastle - if the 57 figure is accurate it goes well beyond the 13 or so 'news-sites' closed a few weeks ago and which were mentioned in local newspapers at the time. Its not clear to me but more recent events may be moving into the Luxor4u area/forums/chat-sites area.

The expansion still seems aimed at news sites. There's a list given here :

https://afteegypt.org/right_to_know-2/p ... ml?lang=en

Read it while you can. I imagine sites monitoring the monitors might well be closed down/ blocked soon

[Horus]

Of course they cannot ‘close’ this site per se as it is not an Egyptian web site, it is registered in the UK, the most they can do is to block it within Egypt if they have the software to do so. The only people who would be at any risk of reprisals would be those known to live in Egypt and posting derogatory remarks on here, but if they had that information I am sure they would have acted on it before now and the vast majority of members are from elsewhere in the world. I would also echo Zooropa’s remark about censorship, if it ever came to that sort of situation where I had to consider the sensitivity or internal politics of the Egyptian Government before I posted, then I along with many others would not remain on here for very long and seek out an alternative site. For them to control any outside criticism of Egypt via websites and forums would be like trying to stamp out a forest fire using just your bare feet.

[newcastle]

I agree with Horus .

Fair comment - even criticism - of the current regime, its policies etc. abounds on hundreds of thousands of websites/FB groups/forums.

"Insulting", as mentioned with reference to 'red lines' above, is dangerous but is more likely to result in problems for the individual (if residing in Egypt) than the forum being blocked.

A complete ban on critical comment would be unacceptable to me and I would not wish to reside in an Egypt where that atmosphere prevailed....any more than I would wish to live in DPRK.

[Major Thom]

L4U has been viewed many times, even by the SP in Cairo, so to me I would think it is safe, besides that many of the SP speak English only so would not understand many of the words on here. How many English words have asteroid marks in them I was asked two times if I was a member of the forum while in Luxor by Security staff, and had no problem in telling them yes! So I just presumed it was being monitored anyway. At the end of the day in a dictatership and military ruled country they will do what they like, even if the sites are good or bad. Everyday is a toss up in Egypt to what story will be spread next.

[Brian Yare]

How many English words have asteroid marks in them

Ba*d comes to mind. :-)

[Horus]

How many English words have asteroid marks in them

Or Haemorrhoid marks for that matter

[newcastle]

How many English words have asteroid marks in them

"The Moon" was the first one that sprang to my mind.

[carrie]

Certainly confusing for the authorities all these words with asteroid marks,might it be aliens that left them?

[DJKeefy]

I was asked two times if I was a member of the forum while in Luxor by Security staff, and had no problem in telling them yes! So I just presumed it was being monitored anyway.

I find it a bit strange that no one else has reported they were asked if they were a member of the "FORUM" but I suppose from someone who hates it and its members so much they would say this to try scare members off, we can all see straight through your games and little fibs MT

[carrie]

As expected I have spoken to a number of people here about their interviews with the SP, all were asked if they worked, some where their income came from some if they were married here NO ONE was asked about being a member of any forum be it L4u or any other site me thinks someone is telling porkies yet again.

[Major Thom]

Not at all DJ, the fact is when I was doing the motorcycle instruction, a couple of times the English Computer Site was brought up by some that attended, those who did thought it was an information site for tourists in Egypt. The meetings were always monitored so it makes sense that the authorities knew of L4U. That is why I posted in this thread, which is preliminary about sites being closed or monitored. I personally think that everytime you shut and lock your door, or everytime you use the loo, it is known somewhere, and in some respects it would not even surprise me if some of the locals for a bit of cash did not get themselves involved. Where we lived there were two members of the authority living. Something else comes to mind, someone posted on here about Gorf being a slum area, at the time I did neither think about it, but within a couple of weeks one of the villagers who always asked my wife what is English for this that and the other, asked what the word Sloom means, ok maybe pronounced wrong but a couple if months following when we were sat down it suddenly occurred what he was asking. We thought at first he was asking for the translation Saloom, so told him the translation was tobacco. We both thought it was too much of a coincidence. It may well have been, but then again getting back to this thread, it just make you think. Personally all the time I was there I was not going to refrain too much from my way of life and free speech, many locals practiced it but behind closed doors or huddled in a coffee shop corner. I remember a meeting I had with a person I had a translator with me because it was insisted on, the orator at the meeting told the translator, I was known for being outspoken, I told him yes you have to be if you need to get your point across. So who knows who is saying what, who is reading what, I don't think anyone in Luxor will ever know, but on occasions a snippet will come out that refers to something or someone, that makes you realize "You are not alone"

[newcastle]

If Egypt's security services, or their officers in Luxor, were monitoring MT's motorcycle club they may have been more concerned with the 'mental health issues' of anyone hoping to change the attitude of locals to driving habits. Having someone at loose on the West Bank promoting such bizarre views would be an issue for any caring government.

The gulf Arab countries have long had the ability to survey internet traffic. A ‘deep packet inspection’ technique is used by telco companies to get an overview of traffic, including the number of blocked or dropped calls. However it is also used to spy on individual customers to monitor what sites they visit, what kind of data and how much data they use.

Some years ago, UAE authorities introduced tough new decrees which make it a criminal offence to use the internet to criticise the state, its institutions – or mock its rulers. Bloggers have ended up in jail.

However, the Gulf states have populations of a few millions each. Excluding KSA, their combined population is less than 20% of Egypt's 90 million plus. No matter how sophisticated a surveillance system is ( and the BAE system is pretty powerful) any government will have to prioritise its targets.

There is evidence that Egypt is catching up in terms of cyber-surveillance :

https://www.madamasr.com/en/2017/02/10/ ... unication/

In reality, this is likely to be focused on groups disseminating anti- government propaganda, urging demonstrations etc. rather than a handful of elderly expats whinging about the rudeness of Luxor's caleche drivers or the rubbish collection (none) service...or the dangerous potholes in the roads of Hurghada.

[carrie]

Everyday is a toss up in Egypt to what story will be spread next.
That certainly is correct. Some weeks ago I visited a friend who has recently moved to Djorf. We were stood outside his apartment waiting for a taxi to take me home when we got into conversation with some local people. They asked if they could help, "no thank you" explained that my friend had just moved in and I was going home. Conversation got round to foreigners living in Djorf and this couple who had just moved out. My friend was politely told that they didn't expect him to behave as this couple had, how much they were disliked, how horrible they had been to the local people and how glad everyone was that they had gone.
They explained that after all this is their country and if we didn't like it here then we should go instead of keep causing problems and telling everyone what was wrong and how they should put things right. They even said this couple had threatened to burn down their villa rather than let an Egyptian have it, obviously this site is read by those other than ex pats.
My friend was quite upset, he loves it here told his neighbours that he did. Just goes to show how some ex pats can poison the minds of others.

[Winged Isis]

I and my husband were told the same when visiting someone in that village. The village were relieved when he left.

[Dusak]

If Egypt's security services, or their officers in Luxor, were monitoring MT's motorcycle club they may have been more concerned with the 'mental health issues' of anyone hoping to change the attitude of locals to driving habits. Having someone at loose on the West Bank promoting such bizarre views would be an issue for any caring government.

The gulf Arab countries have long had the ability to survey internet traffic. A ‘deep packet inspection’ technique is used by telco companies to get an overview of traffic, including the number of blocked or dropped calls. However it is also used to spy on individual customers to monitor what sites they visit, what kind of data and how much data they use.

Some years ago, UAE authorities introduced tough new decrees which make it a criminal offence to use the internet to criticise the state, its institutions – or mock its rulers. Bloggers have ended up in jail.

However, the Gulf states have populations of a few millions each. Excluding KSA, their combined population is less than 20% of Egypt's 90 million plus. No matter how sophisticated a surveillance system is ( and the BAE system is pretty powerful) any government will have to prioritise its targets.

There is evidence that Egypt is catching up in terms of cyber-surveillance :

https://www.madamasr.com/en/2017/02/10/ ... unication/

In reality, this is likely to be focused on groups disseminating anti- government propaganda, urging demonstrations etc. rather than a handful of elderly expats whinging about the rudeness of Luxor's caleche drivers or the rubbish collection (none) service...or the dangerous potholes in the roads of Hurghada.

and if this had been the case, they monitoring the ''club,'' then it would of been a very short lived exercise.