Conundrums ? 'bit of a sod really!

[Who2]

Today I have been busy trying to solve a conundrum..
My conundrum is...... trying to curve an arch above a 10 year old pictogram by Tieb Picasso.
I had the day off when we were studying Geometry.

So, I have been using nails, string and pens to try to copy the curve on your left to the
supposed curve on your right. Which is failing badly.
So any geophysics out there that can help ?

Stephen Hawking could have solved it mentally, but physically couldn't have achieved it.
I, on the other hand can solve it physically, but mentally I'm f*cked...any ideas great fully recieved..cheers!.....

[Yildez]

I'm no mathematician Dr, but I can see the problem! The width of the fresco on the right is greater than that on the left. Therefore the arch will be higher as well as wider, and there's no room for that. Or have I got it wrong? They're really the same width and it's a trick of the camera?

[newcastle]

What you have is a classic problem involving matching elliptic curves.

In mathematics, an elliptic curve is a plane algebraic curve defined by an equation of the form

y squared = x cubed +ax+b

that is non-singular; that is, it has no cusps or self-intersections.

Formally, an elliptic curve is a smooth, projective, algebraic curve of genus one, on which there is a specified point O. An elliptic curve is in fact an abelian variety – that is, it has a multiplication defined algebraically, with respect to which it is an abelian group – and O serves as the identity element. Often the curve itself, without O specified, is called an elliptic curve. The point O is actually the "point at infinity" in the projective plane.

If y2 = P(x), where P is any polynomial of degree three in x with no repeated roots, then we obtain a non-singular plane curve of genus one, which is thus an elliptic curve. If P has degree four and is square-free this equation again describes a plane curve of genus one; however, it has no natural choice of identity element. More generally, any algebraic curve of genus one, for example from the intersection of two quadric surfaces embedded in three-dimensional projective space, is called an elliptic curve, provided that it has at least one rational point to act as the identity.

Hope that helps.

Or you could add a foot or so to right hand wall section .

[Horus]

As the two walls are of different widths what you need to do is to keep the centre height the same as the curve on the left. Mark a vertical line on the centre of the right hand wall and then measure down the same distance as the top of the curve on the left hand wall and tap a small nail in the wall to fix that point. Measure down on each side the same distance as the low point of the curve on the left hand side wall, mark the same point on each side of the right hand wall and tap another nail in at each side. This will give you three points that are the same as on the left hand wall. Next procure yourself something flexible like a narrow piece of thin timber or plastic about 18” longer than the width of the wall. Using it on the flat side (thinnest part) get a mate to position one end by the lowest nail on one side and hold it steady, now flex the strip of wood or whatever so that it touches the top nail whilst curving the right hand piece down to touch the other nail (you may need to trim a bit off). This will result in a natural curve that will look similar to the other wall, get another person to draw the outline of the curve with a pencil using the wood as a guide. It can never look identical because the walls are different widths, but the illusion should look the same.

[Who2]

Great, I will reread the above edifying post again a few times to digest the information and will report back.
My minds a bit boggled at present but nothing unusual there....
“Tomorrow will be the first day of the rest of my life.” Inshaala!...

[Horus]

This may help to explain the method, fix the strip against the left hand nail and flex upwards touching the centre and right hand nails, then draw around the curve.

[Winged Isis]

Yildez was correct. As the sections are different widths, the arches will be different.

Just use your garden hose held by 2 others where you want it and draw a line along it's top on the wall for the curve. Simples.

[Winged Isis]

Or you could add a foot or so to right hand wall section .

Don't you mean add it to the smaller, left section? Or take a foot off the larger, right section?

[Horus]

A garden hose will not form a natural curve, you need something that will flex to create the arc, like holding a plastic rule between your thumbs and flexing it upwards.

[Who2]

My German pal is due round today for a beer, I'm sure we will sort it. TBC
"Vorsprung durch Technik"....

[Dusak]

I had the same problem here Who2, although there is not much I do not know about creating a curve of up to a seven centered one, as needed working on the building of glass tanks, I took the fail proof option of getting a sheet of clear plastic, pinning it tightly in place then traced the ''good'' arch out with a black marker pen, cut it out, placed it on the wonky one, marked it off with the pen A 100% perfect match.

[newcastle]

Or you could add a foot or so to right hand wall section .

Don't you mean add it to the smaller, left section? Or take a foot off the larger, right section?

No.

The paintings look aesthetically odd because the right hand side one is truncated ....the wall isn't high enough to complete the curve.

So add a few inches to the right hand wall section.

I assume we're looking at the same picture....and you aren't looking at a "reversed" image?

[HEPZIBAH]

'Conundrums ? 'bit of a sod really!'

A bit like your lawn then!

[Who2]

After loads of drinks & german bush*t he came up with this curve using a length of wood.
Which is a laod of bullsh*t, he's not really German he's one of those 'libestrome kids.
Born out of wedlock to blonde haired blue eyed b*stards, that think they could rule the World. as if ?
Anyhow back to science tomorrow....

[Who2]

After loads of drinks & german bush*t he came up with this curve using a length of wood.
Which is a load of bullsh*t, he's not really German he's one of those 'libestrome kids.
Born out of wedlock to blonde-haired blue eyed ********, that think they could rule the World. as if ?
Anyhow back to science tomorrow....

[Horus]

The curve looks good, but if you want it to look similar to the other side then it must have the top of the curve equal to the height of the curve on the other wall as I explained previously.

[newcastle]

The curve looks good, but if you want it to look similar to the other side then it must have the top of the curve equal to the height of the curve on the other wall as I explained previously.

I agree.....never trust the Germans.

Even with the curve tops aligned I think the difference in curvature between the two frescoes might look a bit odd.

There's no entirely satisfactory answer.....unless you demolish the right hand wall, reposition it so its width equals that on the left - and repaint

[Major Thom]

You seem to be a real Egyptian Dr, having paintings on your walls, they look ok to me but we had friends who did not seal the wall before painting a a year or two later the salt had come through and ruined the images, so hope you sealed the wall first. I cannot remember which one now, but we but there was a coffee shop we used and they had some great reliefs on their walls but the salt from the bricks attacked them.

[Dusak]

You seem to be a real Egyptian Dr, having paintings on your walls, they look ok to me but we had friends who did not seal the wall before painting a a year or two later the salt had come through and ruined the images, so hope you sealed the wall first. I cannot remember which one now, but we but there was a coffee shop we used and they had some great reliefs on their walls but the salt from the bricks attacked them.

How many were injured in this coffee house rock-salt riot?

[A-Four]

Talking of things in Luxor that have, or for that matter certainly will, collapse,.........I wonder if any one on here remembers, it's way over twenty years now, when within the gardens of the Winter Palace the original restaurant area around the pool, a structure in the shape of a vast concrete umbrella, to the horror of all tourist present, totally collapsed. Thank the Lord God, no one was killed or even injured.

This was during the period of the Accor Group (New Winter Palace, Etap, Novotel and Egotel), members of my own family were staying at the New Winter and were around the pool and witnessed the event. Each of the tourist were given a bottle of Obelisk to get over the shock, though in my family's case the manager was told to change this to Omar, being that I did not drink total rubbish, accordingly a case was dispatched up to them there hills.

I joke not, the whole thing was fully replaced exactly as you see it today,....those who do not believe me, simply ask some one there from the old days.