Luxor4u

Oh do be careful it trapped as well.

I don't know why I bothered to get a PhD in Egyptology. I could have just gotten a job at the local discount shop instead, told everyone I was a reincarnated ancient Egyptian and started regaling them with made up stories about my past life and no one would be able to tell the difference.

A-Four wrote:I am sorry to say this Newcastle, in this matter you are wrong.

When dealing with the royal burials of ancient Egypt, there are two clear distinctions being coffin and sarcophagus, the former placed of course in the latter. Truthfully the term sarcophagus was adopted by early Egyptologist to describe the main outer-container of the 'Russian doll set'. ( The actual truth about a sarcophagus, was that they were used in another Eastern civilization for the opposite effect that these object had in Egypt.)

The item that you state, that is in the stair well of Sir John Soam's Museum is made of pure alabaster, not only is the actual carving to create the box form a master piece in itself, but then to realise that it's walls are only 2 inches thick, add to this, there are some 700 figures, each only 2 inches high. If you were to place a lamp inside this 'box' you would see that it is transparent, in total, this truly is one of the greatest treasures of the ancient world, yet so few people see this, let alone appreciate it.

If you go to this museum, suggest to the curator that you are doing research at the Griffith's Institute, Oxford, and he will show you not only the fragments of the top of this 'box' that depict the face of Seti, but also will show you a water colour picture of the 'box' when it first arrived at this museum, I leave others to decide the serious amount of deterioration that has occurred since then, thanks to London's pollution.

I suspect there is a very special reason why no sarcophagus have been found in the three tombs, previously stated, I have my own thoughts. I wonder if anyone knows why they are missing.

P.S. The 'box' in the Soames Museum is a COFFIN of Seti 1, and certainly not the sarcophagus.

Then I suggest you contact all the relevant museums, authors of egyptological tomes etc. and tell them that, in your expert opinion, they have got their terminology totally wrong and what they are labeling/describing as sarcophagi are nothing of the sort. I find it remarkable that you would label the massive (reconstructed) thingy in KV8 anything but a sarcophagus!

But if your pedantry only relates to Seti I then I won't argue with you

As stated before GD, if Frater0082 really believes what he speaks of, then it is not made up as to his mind it is factual. We are so ready, willing and able to condemn and ridicule others when it fails to fit our own individual knowledge and criteria.

Is this person any different from the millions that believe in the after life [no hard evidence to date], ghosts, [again no hard evidence to date] the existence of God, [no evidence to his existence] Allah, [no evidence to his existence] other inhabited planets [as yet no evidence that this is fact although they have just found a new 'earth like' planet] or the ones that state openly, [which is now a jailable offense] that the holocaust did not happen [indisputable evidence] or that dinosaurs never existed [indisputable fact] or that our planet is only several thousand years old. There are many eminent people that think this way who's qualifications far out rank yours. If you desire to gain knowledge you have to show a willingness to keep an open mind and not to be so quick to debunk others theories just because current evidence at the moment may suggest otherwise.

You know what Dusak, I believe you are a hairy orangutan running around Luxor throwing banana peels at foreign women. I don't have any evidence for it, but since I believe it, it must be a fact too.

Theories are based on evidence. If you want to treat Frater's delusions as theory, as opposed to belief, then he needs to show us some proof. You can't have it both ways.

If you don't understand the difference between theory and belief, then stuff a banana in your mouth and keep quiet. I mean you are just an ape so why should we believe that anything that comes out of your keyboard isn't just random pounding with your ape fingers that happens to just look like English words?

[quote="newcastle"]

Then I suggest you contact all the relevant museums, authors of egyptological tomes etc. and tell them that, in your expert opinion, they have got their terminology totally wrong and what they are labeling/describing as sarcophagi are nothing of the sort. I find it remarkable that you would label the massive (reconstructed) thingy in KV8 anything but a sarcophagus!

But if your pedantry only relates to Seti I then I won't argue with you [/quote]



If I was to contact every museum just in the U.K. alone, I think it would become a full time job to correct the errors of their labelling.

Again, I ask you to consider that a alabaster box, with walls of only 2 inches thick, can only be a coffin, and not a sarcophagus. Totally ignore what you have read in books and labelling in the Soam's, and look at this item with an open mind. It is only then that we can go forward in giving a full answer to your initial question, that also relates to Ramassis and Meneptah.

With reference to your word, pedantry here, if in the past we had not paid attention to traditional rules, who knows, we might be still living in caves.

Glyphdoctor wrote:You know what Dusak, I believe you are a hairy orangutan running around Luxor throwing banana peels at foreign women. I don't have any evidence for it, but since I believe it, it must be a fact too.

Theories are based on evidence. If you want to treat Frater's delusions as theory, as opposed to belief, then he needs to show us some proof. You can't have it both ways.

If you don't understand the difference between theory and belief, then stuff a banana in your mouth and keep quiet. I mean you are just an ape so why should we believe that anything that comes out of your keyboard isn't just random pounding with your ape fingers that happens to just look like English words?

Ape I may be, but my cage isn't as easily rattled. Your post clearly indicates that you are blind to others thoughts and words. Perhaps that internet certification was worth it to you, but to me, and even perhaps to others, clearly gives a better insight towards your intellectual prowess. Once a person has to go to base level with insulting words and descriptions towards others, then the other person can quite legitimately claim it to be 1-0. Let battle commence.

Is a true belief knowledge?

Glyphdoctor wrote: I mean you are just an ape so why should we believe that anything that comes out of your keyboard isn't just random pounding with your ape fingers that happens to just look like English words?

Because, I would have thought that the odds of forming a consistent string of English words from random pounding on a keyboard would be impossibly high.

Either that or Dusak can start giving me six numbers every Saturday.

Only one number again this week.

Bugger.

Glyphdoctor wrote:I don't know why I bothered to get a PhD in Egyptology. I could have just gotten a job at the local discount shop instead, told everyone I was a reincarnated ancient Egyptian and started regaling them with made up stories about my past life and no one would be able to tell the difference.

His story, theory, belief, call it what you will is no more fantastical and in some cases much more plausible than religious nonsense.

Yet we are supposed to give that every respect in the world lest we be called nasty, intolerant and unenlightened!

Indeed!

And I give every religion my complete respect. Religions are shared value systems between large numbers, sometimes billions of people. You don't have to believe in God or multiple gods as the case may be, in order to see the positive intentions and goals of religion. That doesn't mean the people who practice religions are perfect, but just because they are not perfect does not give anyone an excuse in my opinion to make derogatory remarks about their religion itself.

But Frater is not here espousing the benefits of ancient Egyptian religion. He's talking about his alleged past life in ancient Egypt. If he came here and started droning on about the details of his current personal life uninvited, would you be so interested?

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE.

Would you so kindly remove yourselves to, shall we say,......another saloon, where I am sure you can continue with your prep - school repartee discussion.

May I remind you that this section of the forum is for serious minded people, so take your bottles of beer, cigarettes and whacky backee,..........and **** ***.

A-Four wrote:

newcastle wrote:
Then I suggest you contact all the relevant museums, authors of egyptological tomes etc. and tell them that, in your expert opinion, they have got their terminology totally wrong and what they are labeling/describing as sarcophagi are nothing of the sort. I find it remarkable that you would label the massive (reconstructed) thingy in KV8 anything but a sarcophagus!

But if your pedantry only relates to Seti I then I won't argue with you

If I was to contact every museum just in the U.K. alone, I think it would become a full time job to correct the errors of their labelling.

Again, I ask you to consider that a alabaster box, with walls of only 2 inches thick, can only be a coffin, and not a sarcophagus. Totally ignore what you have read in books and labelling in the Soam's, and look at this item with an open mind. It is only then that we can go forward in giving a full answer to your initial question, that also relates to Ramassis and Meneptah.

With reference to your word, pedantry here, if in the past we had not paid attention to traditional rules, who knows, we might be still living in caves.

So....is that massive granite box in KV8 a reconstruction of the sarcophagus of Merenptah or not? If you'll concede that it is (although of course only fragments of the original outer "boxes" and their lids were found) then I'll leave you in peace having established that your earlier remarks concerning, specifically, Merenptah, were not totally correct (or, as you would probably say, ....WRONG)

First Newcastle, I would like thank you for entering into serious debate in this section, which is rare from most people,not only here, but other sections.

Yes, you are correct with regards Merenptah. The sarcophagus that now sits in the tomb was previously smashed to pieces. When it was reassembled in modern time, only one third is original. In total we are told that there were three granite sarcophagus, each fitting one in the other. Within this was a coffin of similar texture, to that as I described in the Soam's Museum. This one, although in poor condition is now in the British Museum. It is also widely believed that there were several other coffins, all fitted each within one and another.

In my haste to, believe it or not, to give support here to a couple of points our friend Fratter has made above, I made error in saying that Merenptah tomb had no sarcophagus, what I should have said was it had, but now totally smashed, until it was restored

I shall soon return to Fratter's comment with regards Seti 1's tomb.

Listen Listen Listen. There is no need to argue over this.

I'm not here to force people to believe in what I believe or to except me for my claims. My main purpose was to draw some attention to my story so I can get someone in Egypt to look into this story but. Yes I know that the possibility is 0-99 but i'm going to stop believing in my claims. I'm so tired of being in a center of argument really enough

Glyph doctor I found your comment suggesting me to live off Obama Care to very rude and discrimitive. Obama doesn 't exist its the affordable health act.

Heed this and heed this well I will not be another statistic,okay, thats why i'm in College to not follow my family's bad choice of life. Call me crazy call me delusional but don't call me a destined Low-Life thats a no no no.

A-four as I said earlier, When I entered the tomb there was nothing there heck the tomb was freshly painted and sort of under construction.

May I note that there was other construction going on outside the tomb.

Can we leave this alone until at least something comes up about it please there is need for the arguments here.

(Sighs) I guess this song has to go unsung and this story should be vaulted. I was just thinking today and it ran across my mind that maybe I should let this be so to keep the heat, down i'm going to stop posting here for a while but i'll be watching and waiting for someone to help me.

I will say this again because I feel that its the most important part of my past life.

Nefertiti is the younger lady of KV35 thus the mother of Tutankhamen. Nefertiti was originally known as Nebetah the younger sister of Akhenaten.

Y16 at sun set Nefertiti attempted to kill my mother in her sleep holding her by the neck choking her to death. My mother tried to fight her off and struggled to do so.

Finally my mother reached for the closet thing a golden candle holder.( it had a circular plate( you know the liitle plate thing that the candle sits on)

My mother whacks Nefertiti hard on the left side of her face hard knocking Nefertiti off of her and causing the chief queen to stab herself in the left (ironically where Seti impaled me with his spear)rib cage. Nefertiti technically killed herself.

Even though she was innocent my mother was banished from the kingdom thus granted a choice to take me or my full sister Tenta'aten who is the true fourth and first princess born in Amarna. Of course she chose me and departed to Mitanni my mother never lived this down and I never made a matk in history.

Forget my life, my sisters and my mothers life became a tragedy after Akhenaten and Tutankhamen so much pain so much lost it must have been tearing them apart in the inside.

Dr. Joann Fletcher should really be exploited as the woman who found Queen Nefertiti because she really did.

You might say that there is no evidence of Nefertiti being the King's sister but it does as Nebetah. The name Nefertiti is short for another name and I think it Nebetah.

KV21A-unknown ( likely Ankhesenpaaten Tasherit)

KV21B- Nebetnehat

Lastly, Tut did not want to be pharoah this was word from mouth. The poor kid just wanted a normal life and its unfortunate that he didn't. The Amarna mystery may never be solved and people may still speculate over this family but always keep an open mind to the what ifs because ir just might be the truths.


Please show some respect to each other be mindful of what you say and how you say things to each other because words really do hurt specially to me.

You are free to believe in whatever you feel but feel something good.

Hugs and kisses everyone be well be kind and always love no matter whst show so hard love because someone out there needs it, see yah friends until we meet again.

Good luck Frater, can't accecpt your claims but you are fully entitled to your beliefs.

Does anybody really give a toss what sarcophagus is in what tomb, it's just pedantics..

It's funny you know, but our friend Frater here posted something so important, not just to his, some would say eccentric knowledge, but to the FACT that most Egyptologists of the modern day do not even twig that is so important to understanding of the Seti/Ram tombs, and although I notice a number of interested people have looked since the previous post, none have asked the most obvious question that relates to these two most important tombs.

Oh Stan, how we miss you.

Title Sarcophagus of King Seti (or Sety) I
Number Vermeule 33 Museum Number Sarcophagus M470; Lid X73 and X164
Location Sepulchral Chamber
Description
A Pharaoh of the XIXth Dynasty in Egypt.

The Belzoni Sarcophagus, and Eighteen pieces of the Cover.
(Note by George Bailey, First Curator (1837-1860): In the ‘Description of the House and Museum’, written by Sir J. Soane, the number of pieces are stated to be nineteen, apparently from being misnumbered in the Sketch of the Sarcophagus by Mr. Gandy).

Sixteen fragments of the cover were pieced together under the direction of Joseph Bonomi, second Curator (1861-1878), and are in four cases in the New Chamber. In addition, under a small glass case atop these are two further small fragments of the lid discovered amongst rubbish at the entrance to the tomb in 1906, and presented to the Museum by Professor Weidemann in 1910.

The alabaster sarcophagus of Seti I was discovered in the tomb of that Pharaoh by Giovanni Battista Belzoni in 1825. The tomb itself is the most magnificent of that splendid series of rock-cut tombs in which the Pharaohs were buried during the 16th, 15th, 14th, 13th, 12th and 11th centuries before Christ. The walls and most of the roofs of Seti’s tomb are painted or sculptured with various religious texts and emblems, the chief of which illustrates the journey of the sun through the world of Night and thick Darkness.

The sarcophagus stood in the largest hall, almost at the end of the tomb, which runs horizontally about 350 feet into the cliff. The hall was hewn out of the solid rock, and six pillars of the rock were left standing to support the super-incumbent weight. The walls and roof of the hall were elaborately decorated. The sarcophagus consists of two monolithic blocks of alabaster, and is inscribed over the whole surface with religious scenes and figures incised and then filled in with blue. Though most of the blue filling has disappeared, it can be seen here and there. The effect when it was complete must have been extremely beautiful. It is mummiform in shape, and the measurements are as follows:
Dimensions: Length: 9ft. 4in.
Width at shoulders: 3ft. 8in.
Width at the head: 1ft.10in.
Width at the feet: 2ft. 8in.
Lower part:
Height at shoulders: 2ft. 8in.
Height at the feet: 2ft. 3in.
Thickness of sides: 4 _ in. to 1 _ in.

The cover, which was sculptured as a portrait of the dead King, was smashed in ancient times by tomb-robbers in their efforts to reach the jewels buried with the mummy, but enough remains to show that its height was 1ft. 3inches. Smashing was necessitated by the method of securing the cover to the lower part, a method commonly used in royal burials, but which however seems to have been ineffectual against determined robbers. It was as good a method as any other for it ensured that the only way to open the sarcophagus was by breaking the cover to pieces. The method was this: grooves were cut in the thickness of the walls of the lower part of the sarcophagus and similar grooves at the same distance apart were cut in the thickness of the sides of the cover. Slips of copper were slung up over the lower part and gently lowered till the two sets of grooves coincided; it was then let down, and the slips of copper were then so far embedded in the stone as to be unreachable by any tool, and there was no possibility of levering the cover off the lower part.

There are two versions of the Sun’s journey through the Under World. The longest, and perhaps the most detailed, is found on the walls of the royal tombs; this version is known as Ymi Duat The Book of Him who is in the Under World. The shorter version has been given the modern name of The Book of Gates. This version is almost invariably the one used for the decoration of royal sarcophagi.

In the Book of Gates the Under World is divided into twelve portions, which were equated with twelve hours of the night. Each hour was divided from the next by a gate, guarded by snakes and a warder; no one could pass through any of the gates without giving the password. Ra, the Sun-god, was believed to die every night and his dead body was carried through the Under World in a boat; for, as the highway on earth was the Nile, there was also a Nile in the Under World and another in the sky, so that the Sun was supposed to travel always by water. In the Underworld the Boat was towed by various gods and goddesses who protected the Sun from the many dangers of that dark and dismal country. In the representation of the night journey of the Sun, the Underworld appears divided into three horizontal registers. The central register is the river on which the Boat floats; the upper register is the farther bank of the river, the lowest register is the near bank. Both banks are filled with the denizens of the land; special attention being given to the punishment of the wicked, i.e. those persons who in life had not worshipped Ra. These blasphemers were thrown into the Flaming Lake or drowned in boiling pools.

The chief points of interest in the sculpture are as follows:

Fifth hour (outside, left, near feet): Osiris as Judge of the Dead. He sits enthroned on a dais raised up on nine steps. In front of him is the balance in which the hearts of the dead are weighed against the ostrich feather, the emblem of the goddess of righteousness.

Ninth hour (outside, right, near feet): This section is remarkable for the number of strange figures of snakes. Of these there is at present no satisfactory explanation.

Tenth hour (inside, left, near feet): Here the monstrous snake, Apophis lies in wait to destroy the Sun, but is foiled by the deities and worshippers who surround Ra. They bind Apophis with cords and chains, but though they are called the “Strong-armed” their strength is insufficient to hold him securely. A giant hand rises out of the ground and grips the chain firmly so that the monster cannot escape. The struggle lasts into the

Eleventh hour (inside, left, near head) when Apophis is finally overcome and Ra is saved.

Twelfth hour (inside, at the head): The Sun-boat emerges triumphantly. The curious circular figure is “Osiris encircling the Underworld”; on his head stands the sky goddess, Nut, she “receives Ra” as he comes forth to the day. The main portions of the picture is the great figure of the good Nun rising out of the primeval waters, and supporting the Boat on his up-raised arms. His name is above his head, and the inscription says: “These arms come out of the waters, they raise this god”. In the centre of the Boat stand the two goddesses Isis and Nephthys, holding up the scarab, the emblem of the resurrection and new life; and the scarab in its turn supports the newly risen, newly born sun. The rest of the Boat is crowded with various deities.

The bottom of the sarcophagus is sculptured with the figure of the sky-goddess Nut, and the inside of the cover is also covered with figures of deities who were supposed to receive the King when he died.

The sarcophagus is regarded as one of the most important objects ever found in Egypt. It is continually mentioned in all studies of the XIXth dynasty and of the religious texts of that period. The most complete account of it, with translations of the inscriptions, is by Sir Ernest Wallis Budge, (An Account of the Sarcophagus of Seti I, King of Egypt, B.C. 1370, Soane Museum Publication no.2, 1908). The history of Soane’s acquisition and installation of the Sarcophagus is contained in Description 1930, p.63ff., figs.34, 36, together with further notes by Sir E.A. Wallis Budge.

NOTE: Mrs. Perry T. Rathbone of Coolidge Hill, Cambridge, Massachusetts, a descendent of Joseph Bonomi, possesses a portrait of the second Curator (by Charles Martin, son of John) studying the inscriptions on the sarcophagus, in the Museum. The painting, illustrated here, is signed and dated 1867. Mrs Rathbone’s grandmother, Joseph Bonomi’s daughter, remembered having played around the sarcophagus as a child.


SOURCE: http://jeromeonline.co.uk/antiquities/i ... 2&a_id=459