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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:34 pm
by Maggy
Hepzi was it the search for Timbuktoo?:lol:
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:21 pm
by Angela
Glyphdoctor wrote:Ebikatsu wrote:
The teacher said that on the west bank there are 2 districts with new villa's and businesses. He said that they were almost exclusively bought from western money. Usually older women buying and setting up home and business with local boys. he feared that the land which was Egyptian and used to be handed down to children through the generations was being lost.
This part is one of the biggest unspoken problems. The foreigners' investments have driven up the property prices to ridiculous levels. That's great for those who have property, but locals who don't have property and don't work in the tourist business and don't want to cheat foreigners for a living who lead honest decent lives are now priced out of the market. There are people who earn less than 1000LE a month in Luxor, sometimes much less. And then you have people buying places for 1 million. It's insane.
Luxor is a more desirable area than some other parts of Egypt in some ways, but what sets it apart from the rest of the country really is the monuments. And for most people who are investing in Luxor, that is only of marginal importance if at all. So there is no reason for property to be as expensive as it has gotten there except for the fact that there are foreigners with shitloads of money willing to throw their money into property.
.
I totally agree with this. I can't bear it in the UK when I hear people talking about property as an investment while million of hardworking young people on average incomes are unable to but a roof over their heads without getting themselves seriously in debt.
I have come across several websites lately developed by individuals in Luxor who are developing properties to sell on to foreigners and talk about what a fabulous investment it is i.e how land prices are rocketing. Not a great thing for the locals.
We have a home in Luxor and that is what it is, a home it was not built as an investment but simply as a home in a place that we love. I find it in really poor taste to talk about property in Luxor as an investment when the chances are your neighbours may not have access to electricity or running water and may be a family of 10 surviving on 200le a month. I am sure that plenty will disagree with me on this one but it is how I feel.
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:23 pm
by Angela
Glyphdoctor wrote:Ebikatsu wrote:
Anyway, I've done a lot of reading about the period leading up to Iranian Revolution and it is quite spooky how many parallels there are between that period and Egypt today, even in many small details. One thing that was happening before the Iranian Revolution was that foreigners were buying up property in Iran. Well, the Revolution put quite an end to that. I would not be at all surprised if in a few years we see a lot of foreigners trying to unload all those nice villas for whatever few piasters they can get...People also forget that Nasser took lots of property away from foreigners and they were only allowed to own property again in 1989.
I have heard many people talk about the Iranian Revolution and the similarities with Egypt today. GD - I would like to read more about this, can you recommend any good books on the subject?
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:36 pm
by HEPZIBAH
Maggy wrote:Hepzi was it the search for Timbuktoo?:lol:
[face=Comic Sans MS]I think it may well have been, but if not I'd love to read it having been so close and yet so far away from it. If only I'd had a camel that day!
[/face]
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:55 pm
by Ebikatsu
Angela wrote:Glyphdoctor wrote:Ebikatsu wrote:
The teacher said that on the west bank there are 2 districts with new villa's and businesses. He said that they were almost exclusively bought from western money. Usually older women buying and setting up home and business with local boys. he feared that the land which was Egyptian and used to be handed down to children through the generations was being lost.
This part is one of the biggest unspoken problems. The foreigners' investments have driven up the property prices to ridiculous levels. That's great for those who have property, but locals who don't have property and don't work in the tourist business and don't want to cheat foreigners for a living who lead honest decent lives are now priced out of the market. There are people who earn less than 1000LE a month in Luxor, sometimes much less. And then you have people buying places for 1 million. It's insane.
Luxor is a more desirable area than some other parts of Egypt in some ways, but what sets it apart from the rest of the country really is the monuments. And for most people who are investing in Luxor, that is only of marginal importance if at all. So there is no reason for property to be as expensive as it has gotten there except for the fact that there are foreigners with shitloads of money willing to throw their money into property.
.
I totally agree with this. I can't bear it in the UK when I hear people talking about property as an investment while million of hardworking young people on average incomes are unable to but a roof over their heads without getting themselves seriously in debt.
I have come across several websites lately developed by individuals in Luxor who are developing properties to sell on to foreigners and talk about what a fabulous investment it is i.e how land prices are rocketing. Not a great thing for the locals.
We have a home in Luxor and that is what it is, a home it was not built as an investment but simply as a home in a place that we love. I find it in really poor taste to talk about property in Luxor as an investment when the chances are your neighbours may not have access to electricity or running water and may be a family of 10 surviving on 200le a month. I am sure that plenty will disagree with me on this one but it is how I feel.
Scooping up loads of land and buildings and making 'killings' on them as investments is just wrong in a place like Egypt I agree.
BUT I have to say that a family of 10 with no electricity or money for food really makes my blood boil. Why have so many children you can't feed then ship them all to Cairo to sell tissues on the streets or sift through rubbish!! Grrrrr!
There is a story highlighting the multiple kid syndrome in the story from El Salam City in the book.
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:52 pm
by Glyphdoctor
In Luxor you don't need a lot of money for food if you have animals and even a little land for growing stuff. The poor in Luxor eat much better than the poor in Cairo. They never have a shortage of poultry and dairy products.
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:04 pm
by Ebikatsu
That's why I just don't understand them coming to Cairo to sell tissues and live on the streets
Surely they have a better life in their villages amongst family and with their little bits of land.
What possesses them to live like a wild dog in the street with all their babies rolling about the filthy pavements?
It's a desperate situation
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:14 pm
by FABlux
I know what you mean about the rising cost of land in Luxor, an Egyptian lady we know well was saying that as fast as she saves to buy land the cost rises. She is lucky in that she has a home, albeit rented, but she wants to buy so that she can pass it on to her son in due course.
This is not only an Egyptian issue, it happens in the UK too, where young people can not afford to buy in the area they have been brought up in because of the cost of property, often fuelled by people buying second homes in the area
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:34 pm
by HEPZIBAH
Ebikatsu wrote:That's why I just don't understand them coming to Cairo to sell tissues and live on the streets
Surely they have a better life in their villages amongst family and with their little bits of land.
What possesses them to live like a wild dog in the street with all their babies rolling about the filthy pavements?
It's a desperate situation
[face=Comic Sans MS]But is that really any different to people in the UK who have always gravitated towards London believing the 'streets are paved with gold'? [/face]
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:43 pm
by LivinginLuxor
Throughout the world, cities attract people from the countryside - look at the huge shanty towns outside Mexico City, Rio de Janeiro, Calcutta, Cape Town etc.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:48 am
by Glyphdoctor
I think many of the street children in Cairo are runaways. If you are trying to escape abusive or neglectful parents, Cairo is a good place to run away to and hide and be anonymous.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:52 am
by Glyphdoctor
FABlux wrote:I know what you mean about the rising cost of land in Luxor, an Egyptian lady we know well was saying that as fast as she saves to buy land the cost rises. She is lucky in that she has a home, albeit rented, but she wants to buy so that she can pass it on to her son in due course.
That's sad. And that means if the son ever wants to own a piece of land he will probably have to go marry some old foreign woman to get it since the old foreign women have made sure that is the only way that anyone can afford to buy anything in Luxor. Sooner or later Luxor is going to need a new Nasser to redistribute the land to its citizens.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:04 am
by WIZARD
Maybe GD would consider running for president next time round. 
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:33 am
by Glyphdoctor
We need a Saidi for president.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:29 am
by Ebikatsu
Glyphdoctor wrote:I think many of the street children in Cairo are runaways. If you are trying to escape abusive or neglectful parents, Cairo is a good place to run away to and hide and be anonymous.
I guess you are right in a way but I was thinking more about the vagabond mothers sitting on the pavement with the toddlers skipping in and out the traffic selling tissues and then giving her the money, and yes it is like Rio and Mumbai etc.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:34 am
by Ebikatsu
Well I finished the Luxor chapter last night.
My God!
What can I say ?
The guy who had AIDS and was being serviced by 12 young boys a day!! before he died!
That explains why hubby got so mad with the men there who were talking in Arabic about the women they were with at the tables!
OMG what a place
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:05 am
by Glyphdoctor
It's quite an accurate chapter, at least about a certain segment of the population.
A couple months ago my husband was talking to someone from Luxor who works in a certain sub-industry of the tourist business in Luxor. He was asking him how that sub-industry worked, how they got their customers etc. After he had this conversation, he came to me and said, "You know, everyone who works in tourism in Luxor is corrupted." I said, "You are from Luxor and you only realized this now???" It goes to show you how the tourism business is a world unto itself totally separated from the rest of life in Luxor.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:07 am
by Glyphdoctor
Ebikatsu wrote:Glyphdoctor wrote:I think many of the street children in Cairo are runaways. If you are trying to escape abusive or neglectful parents, Cairo is a good place to run away to and hide and be anonymous.
I guess you are right in a way but I was thinking more about the vagabond mothers sitting on the pavement with the toddlers skipping in and out the traffic selling tissues and then giving her the money, and yes it is like Rio and Mumbai etc.
They are likely divorcees or widows or women with lazy husbands. No one sells tissues or lemons on the street unless they really have no other way to survive.
There used to be a little gang of kids that sold tissues in our main square. They had an older woman who was their ma'alima running things. I once saw the head traffic officer for the square slap one of the teenage girls. Nowadays, we have a man in a wheelchair who sells boxes of tissues there.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:34 am
by Ebikatsu
Glyphdoctor wrote:It's quite an accurate chapter, at least about a certain segment of the population.
A couple months ago my husband was talking to someone from Luxor who works in a certain sub-industry of the tourist business in Luxor. He was asking him how that sub-industry worked, how they got their customers etc. After he had this conversation, he came to me and said, "You know, everyone who works in tourism in Luxor is corrupted." I said, "You are from Luxor and you only realized this now???" It goes to show you how the tourism business is a world unto itself totally separated from the rest of life in Luxor.
but the book said that 90% of the men are working in tourism!
Is that accurate do you think?
How the male prostitution is almost accepted as long as they don't appear passive.
The well known foreign business woman in the West bank who is the second wife who he 'services' a few times a week as she gives him his handouts.
Are there seriously women there who pay these guys for sex?!!!
How foreign men in Luxor are thought of either as pimps or looking for sex with the boys!!
God the book really is an eye opener!
Talking of corruption.
Have you seen the advert on MBC at all?
The one with the guy who takes the money in the envelope and buys the fruit for the mother and the red fire spots on their faces.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:58 am
by Glyphdoctor
90 percent don't work in tourism. Certainly not the people I know anyway. I would say 50 percent or less actually. But there are some that work indirectly, e.g. someone who works for one of the big hotels maintaining the air conditioning system. It doesn't involve direct contact with tourists but it is a job that depends entirely on tourism.