Luxor4u

A-Four wrote:I am sure that most people who read this subject see it more as a Punch and Judy show rather than anything that is really serious, a little bit like the European Union and its never ending negotiations even if a nation is a member.

For most of my life I have never had to work or pay tax in the form of P.A.Y.E.,except as a quite young man. The tax and National Insurance came to about one-third. Many, many years later after God knows how many Chancellors on Budget Day have stated that the tax rate had been reduced, I discovered recently that the tax take for the average Joe is still one third today,....................now that's what I call pure politics.

Can any one tell me how the average Joe has benefitted from the early days of the Common Market, or even what it has become today,..............I wait with bated anticipation. .

P.S. - Now remember no politics, just straight talking so that the likes of Carrie and I might show the slightest interest.

Zooropa wrote:Well put it this way, if Leave has not won, there will be riots in the streets.

And i would not rule out me being one of them.

Is that your understanding of democracy? If don't get my way, to hell with the majority. I'll riot in the streets?



Again, it gives me no pleasure in stating that the likes of Newcastle are enemies of democracy.

No. Enemies of referendums.

Yet again, he has shown his lack of objectivity by showing his opposition to doing anything on the diplomatic front that Trump may want.

I don't recall saying anything so sweeping. Let's not descend into mind reading or hyperbole.

Thats kind of the whole point of diplomacy, and he has the temerity to suggest Leave voters didn't know what they were doing when they voted!

Even 6 months later nobody knows what the vote means.

I think at least most of us knew the basics of diplomacy which puts us one up on you at any rate.

Most of the people who voted didn't even realise that their vote was advisory. So much for understanding the basics.

newcastle wrote:

Zooropa wrote:Well put it this way, if Leave has not won, there will be riots in the streets.

And i would not rule out me being one of them.

Is that your understanding of democracy? If don't get my way, to hell with the majority. I'll riot in the streets?


My undertsanding of democracy is majority rules - Leave won if it does not carry the day then thats not democracy so yes i will protest that.


Again, it gives me no pleasure in stating that the likes of Newcastle are enemies of democracy.

No. Enemies of referendums.

So i was absolutely right then

Yet again, he has shown his lack of objectivity by showing his opposition to doing anything on the diplomatic front that Trump may want.

I don't recall saying anything so sweeping. Let's not descend into mind reading or hyperbole.

Well just read your posts then, its not mind reading its reading your posts which have apposed anything geared towards enhancing our reputation and relationship with the next Us president

Thats kind of the whole point of diplomacy, and he has the temerity to suggest Leave voters didn't know what they were doing when they voted!

Even 6 months later nobody knows what the vote means.

I told you 6 months ago what it means, it means we leave the European Union, how thats done and what it will look like are just details, clear now?

I think at least most of us knew the basics of diplomacy which puts us one up on you at any rate.

Most of the people who voted didn't even realise that their vote was advisory. So much for understanding the basics.

newcastle wrote:What can I say?

Anyone who relies on the promises of politicians to enact what they say, despite having no constitutional authority to bind parliament, deserves to be disappointed when reality surfaces!

If you think I'm against leaving EU, you haven't been reading my posts very carefully. But then you seldom do. Your tendancy is to form an opinion and then invent a scenario to support it. I would actually support a Norway-like deal..which still falls within the ambit of a "yes" vote.

My argument all along is that it is for parliament, and no one else, to determine, by vote after debate, on whether we leave EU and, if so, on what terms.

I can't speak for other yes voters. I leave that presumption to you.

Regarding Trump, I don't think I'm alone in being horrified at some of his pre-election utterances. My last comment on the subject was that I was warming to him in view of the likelihood that his rhetoric would not translate inevitably into policy.

Perhaps you missed it in your rush to print.

newcastle wrote:What can I say?

Anyone who relies on the promises of politicians to enact what they say, despite having no constitutional authority to bind parliament, deserves to be disappointed when reality surfaces!

Utter crap - it is up to the electorate to repay broken promises at the ballot box - something which we will now see more often - people have had enough.

If you think I'm against leaving EU, you haven't been reading my posts very carefully. But then you seldom do. Your tendancy is to form an opinion and then invent a scenario to support it. I would actually support a Norway-like deal..which still falls within the ambit of a "yes" vote.

Ive read your posts carefully, now whos inventing scenarios? Don't answer that, il tell you, its you. No, your not against leaving the EU your just throwing your toys because it was decided via a voting process you don't like - ie the people. A Norway like deal, mm yes, if i close my eyes its almost as if Clegg was speaking. Do you think that when they sat down to negotiate they were thinking they wanted a "Switzerland" like deal and vice versa with the Swiss? I want a "UK like deal" but thats beyond the wit of most Europhiles because they don't think this country is big enough to achieve that. A yes vote, of course, we all know thats what you really wanted and to suggest anything else is inventing Scenarios to support a position no doubt.

My argument all along is that it is for parliament, and no one else, to determine, by vote after debate, on whether we leave EU and, if so, on what terms.

What a ridiculous statement that is, you cant have "parliment" negotiating our terms of exit, ive spent a lifetime in a job which requires negotiation and thats about as practical as setting up a raincoat stand outside Karnak Temple in August. Parliment voted to give us the final say (im sure ive mentioned this previous). Also the logical conclusion to this is continual rejection of any deal or any suggested deal by parliment, in effect a neverendum - i know you dont want this but i must confess, im struggling to fit this into this yes ambit of yours. I dont remember you or anyone else demanding the consultation of parliment when Cameron was negotiating a deal for us to stay in which turned out to be a whole load of nothing.

I can't speak for other yes voters. I leave that presumption to you.

Well if i were to assume it would only be on behalf of 17.4 million people which is better than your 60 million "we brits" comment you made in another post that i didnt read - stop projecting. In any case, you mean to tell me you voted? In a process you claim is not binding on parliment and lacking in legality, and i didnt think i could take you less seriously on this issue - just goes to show.

Regarding Trump, I don't think I'm alone in being horrified at some of his pre-election utterances. My last comment on the subject was that I was warming to him in view of the likelihood that his rhetoric would not translate inevitably into policy.

Warming to him yes, sorry i was distracted by the sound of your flip flopping, youve done more back peddling than the Italians did in 1939-43. In any case, your projecting again, its you thats inventing scenarios again, the point of debate wasnt how awful Trump is or isnt its whether appointing farage in some sort of ambassadorial role was worth while/a good move, as i pointed out previously as im sure you know because i know you would have read my posts, liking him or not is irrelevant when considering an ambassador, likewise with the ambassador!

Perhaps you missed it in your rush to print.

newcastle wrote:
The suggestion that I might be Boris Johnson is an insult too far and I will lodge a protest with Admin

newcastle wrote:You are not interpreting my comments as I intended them to be read....and perhaps I have the same problem with yours. We risk going around in circles so I'll desist from further debate on the path Brexit takes from hereon.

I'm somewhat relieved that youve got the point that I'm not against leaving EU but against the manner of leaving ....i.e. TM and her merry men proceeding without parliamentary discussion .

The legal/constitutional point as to whether it's parliament or the people who have the right to determine the process is being decided in our highest court.

The suggestion that I might be Boris Johnson is an insult too far and I will lodge a protest with Admin