Bomb explosion in Manchester

[Horus]

As I suspected, you only saw the second TV report that I referred to and not the first one., but hey when did twisting facts ever stand in your way in winning an argument ?
As to Isis/Al-Qaeda if you cannot see that both are cats of a different colour then we are really splitting hairs and I suggest it is you that should familiarise yourself with the history of international Islamic terrorism and not me. Do yourself a favour and read the following report by Reuters:

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - The father and the younger brother of the suicide bomber who killed 22 people at a concert venue in Manchester have been arrested in Tripoli, a spokesman for a local counter-terrorism force said on Wednesday.
The counter-terrorism force detained the father, Ramadan Abedi, outside his home in the Tripoli suburb of Ayn Zara on Wednesday afternoon. A witness said he was handcuffed by armed men who drove him away in two unmarked vehicles.
The force, known as Rada, detained the brother Hashem Abedi, who was born in 1997, on Tuesday evening on suspicion of links to Islamic State, spokesman Ahmed Bin Salem said. He did not give any details on the reasons why the father was arrested.
But Hashem Abedi had been in touch with attacker Salman Abedi, Bin Salem said, and was suspected of planning to carry out an attack in the Libyan capital.
"We have evidence that he is involved in Daesh (Islamic State) with his brother. We have been following him for more than one month and a half," Bin Salem said. "He was in contact with his brother and he knew about the attack."
He said the younger brother had travelled from London to Tripoli on April 16.
Salman Abedi, 22, was born in Britain to Libyan parents. Britain's interior minister said earlier that he had recently returned from Libya and had likely not acted alone. His father lives in Tripoli.

Now you convince myself and others as to why we should not deal harshly with these people when the facts are so blatantly obvious and why their human rights should be our problem or indeed our concern? Oh and I do not class all 1.5 billion muslims as terrorists, those are your words and not mine

[newcastle]

As I suspected, you only saw the second TV report that I referred to and not the first one., but hey when did twisting facts ever stand in your way in winning an argument ?

"Typical was todays spokesman for the Manchester Islamic Centre whining about an increase in abuse towards Muslims after the bombing, but no mention of the atrocity itself."

This is your first referral to any TV report and clearly is the one I posted....because it's the only one from the MIC and concludes with what you describe as a "whining" reference to abuse of muslims.




As to Isis/Al-Qaeda if you cannot see that both are cats of a different colour then we are really splitting hairs and I suggest it is you that should familiarise yourself with the history of international Islamic terrorism and not me. Do yourself a favour and read the following report by Reuters:

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - The father and the younger brother of the suicide bomber who killed 22 people at a concert venue in Manchester have been arrested in Tripoli, a spokesman for a local counter-terrorism force said on Wednesday.
The counter-terrorism force detained the father, Ramadan Abedi, outside his home in the Tripoli suburb of Ayn Zara on Wednesday afternoon. A witness said he was handcuffed by armed men who drove him away in two unmarked vehicles.
The force, known as Rada, detained the brother Hashem Abedi, who was born in 1997, on Tuesday evening on suspicion of links to Islamic State, spokesman Ahmed Bin Salem said. He did not give any details on the reasons why the father was arrested.
But Hashem Abedi had been in touch with attacker Salman Abedi, Bin Salem said, and was suspected of planning to carry out an attack in the Libyan capital.
"We have evidence that he is involved in Daesh (Islamic State) with his brother. We have been following him for more than one month and a half," Bin Salem said. "He was in contact with his brother and he knew about the attack."
He said the younger brother had travelled from London to Tripoli on April 16.
Salman Abedi, 22, was born in Britain to Libyan parents. Britain's interior minister said earlier that he had recently returned from Libya and had likely not acted alone. His father lives in Tripoli.

Now you convince myself and others as to why we should not deal harshly with these people when the facts are so blatantly obvious and why their human rights should be our problem or indeed our concern? Oh and I do not class all 1.5 billion muslims as terrorists, those are your words and not mine

Your posts are full of references to islam and its holy book and what you find intolerable about it......quite separate from the disgust we all feel for the actions of ISIS & other terrorist groups that adhere to an ideology despised and abhorred by the vast majority of muslims . You regard all muslims, all 1.5 billion of them , as following a perverted doctrine which advocates destruction of the kuffar.

it is the sick teachings of a backward religion that still contains exhortations to kill the kufar wherever you may find him if he does not submit to Islam that forms part of their holy book

That's the trouble when you descend into a rant. Your ideas become incoherent. You say things you may not mean, or which should be qualified, or expressed more calmly and clearly.

You also seem unable to distinguish between dealing harshly with people where evidence exists, and is verified in court, that they are up to no good (I have no problem with that) and rounding up anyone who might, in your view, have nefarious intent, either now or in the future, because...they are muslims. I suppose it makes sense if you believe at the outset that they are all willing and capable of causing trouble.

It's you who need to learn a little more about how islamic terrorism, which has been around for many decades, took off with the Iraq war, how its military capability was boosted by the former soldiers of Saddam Hussein and how it was able to capture weaponry and territory from the withdrawing western forces. Indeed, how ISIS was able to translate an idea (c.f.Al Qaeda & others) into a realistic proposition, an embryonic caliphate able to attract citizens/soldiers from across the world.
Without the Iraq invasion it would never have happened.

And when we've starved it of its resources, driven it from its remaining strongholds and demonstrated that its a pipedream..it will be defeated.

The sad thing is that, in the meantime, you, and other islamophobes, are intent on confronting a quarter of the world's population, whose religion you detest, because you are intellectually incapable of seeing beyond today's , or tomorrow's, terrorist atrocity. It's a mentality which may yet succeed in creating the Final War envisaged and espoused by ISIS, even though their caliphate has been destroyed.

Suspending the normal operation of law, profiling people on account of their religion, restricting their rights .....is where it all begins. Or have you learned nothing from history?

[newcastle]

mad Merkels plan to swamp Europe with more potential terrorists

...we can take some draconian action and start to tackle the problem........close all mosques that ........ have adherents who frequent them..... have their family and dependants removed as part of the penalty..

.. it is the sick teachings of a backward religion that still contains exhortations to kill the kufar wherever you may find him if he does not submit to Islam that forms part of their holy book.

Too much emphasis is given to minority rights......successive governments have fostered huge numbers of people upon us that have nothing in common with our own culture and who will never assimilate...... The sooner we get rid of this ‘Human Rights’ act that the lefty luvvies shelter behind and use to destroy the rights of the many in the interest of the few, the better it will be.

...most of the worlds current terrorist acts are committed by adherents of Islam regardless of how corrupt that version is, it is still Islam...

22 dead - number rising. We need a final solution

Ooops ....sorry...that was Katie Hopkins

[Dusak]

It stated on the news this morning that a while ago two concerned school friends of the bomber actually phoned the local police to warn them that this individual was spouting his support towards ISIS and was well in favor of suicide bombs. Police stated that they are investigating these claims. So, this beggars the question, if these facts are correct, should some of the blame be placed onto the shoulders of those local police that seems to have ignored the warning? Just what do they perceive as being actionable information?

[Zooropa]

Two members of the audience reported to security a person acting very suspiciously.

I assume she was of non white heritage as the member of security seemed more concerned with lecturing the people who reported this by saying "how would you like it if someone accused you of being suspicious"

You couldnt make it up! but thats the power of political correctness for you.

We are constantly being told that you are to report anything suspicious and when you do you get lectured for it.

I very much hope that the member of security in this incident is identified and sacked on the spot for being a ******.

The government and the whole political class is running out of time in terms of how they respond to this sort of incident.

I can very much see public unrest and if it happens then people will be singled out and attacked and what the government is telling us, that people should not be tarred with the same brush will be.

And it will be their fault because everybody has had enough of the useless "lets stick together", "love not hate", "pray for" rhetoric.

People have had enough.

[newcastle]

It stated on the news this morning that a while ago two concerned school friends of the bomber actually phoned the local police to warn them that this individual was spouting his support towards ISIS and was well in favor of suicide bombs. Police stated that they are investigating these claims. So, this beggars the question, if these facts are correct, should some of the blame be placed onto the shoulders of those local police that seems to have ignored the warning? Just what do they perceive as being actionable information?

I heard on another report that the bomber actually flew the ISIS flag from his bedroom window! And this had been reported to the authorities.

I think the authorities will have some questions to answer when the current search for affiliates of the bomber is concluded. You'd think, with his known links to Libya, any reports would have warranted, at the very least an interview and investigation. At this stage we can only speculate as to why , apparently, it didn't happen.

A failure to act when evidence IS presented only fuels the calls of some to act even when there's no evidence.

The Daily Telegraph columnist (Allison Pearson - a Katie Hopkins wannabe), who lives in Cambridge, tweeted in the wake of the Manchester concert attack: “We need a State of Emergency as France has. We need internment of thousands of terror suspects now to protect our children."

Yup...someone else with a limited knowledge of history. Internment did nothing for the situation in Northern Ireland whilst Guantanamo Bay probably created more terrorists than it took in.

[Zooropa]

It stated on the news this morning that a while ago two concerned school friends of the bomber actually phoned the local police to warn them that this individual was spouting his support towards ISIS and was well in favor of suicide bombs. Police stated that they are investigating these claims. So, this beggars the question, if these facts are correct, should some of the blame be placed onto the shoulders of those local police that seems to have ignored the warning? Just what do they perceive as being actionable information?

I heard on another report that the bomber actually flew the ISIS flag from his bedroom window! And this had been reported to the authorities.

I think the authorities will have some questions to answer when the current search for affiliates of the bomber is concluded. You'd think, with his known links to Libya, any reports would have warranted, at the very least an interview and investigation. At this stage we can only speculate as to why , apparently, it didn't happen.

A failure to act when evidence IS presented only fuels the calls of some to act even when there's no evidence.

The Daily Telegraph columnist (Allison Pearson - a Katie Hopkins wannabe), who lives in Cambridge, tweeted in the wake of the Manchester concert attack: “We need a State of Emergency as France has. We need internment of thousands of terror suspects now to protect our children."


Yup...someone else with a limited knowledge of history. Internment did nothing for the situation in Northern Ireland whilst Guantanamo Bay probably created more terrorists than it took in.

What would you suggest then?

[newcastle]

It stated on the news this morning that a while ago two concerned school friends of the bomber actually phoned the local police to warn them that this individual was spouting his support towards ISIS and was well in favor of suicide bombs. Police stated that they are investigating these claims. So, this beggars the question, if these facts are correct, should some of the blame be placed onto the shoulders of those local police that seems to have ignored the warning? Just what do they perceive as being actionable information?

I heard on another report that the bomber actually flew the ISIS flag from his bedroom window! And this had been reported to the authorities.

I think the authorities will have some questions to answer when the current search for affiliates of the bomber is concluded. You'd think, with his known links to Libya, any reports would have warranted, at the very least an interview and investigation. At this stage we can only speculate as to why , apparently, it didn't happen.

A failure to act when evidence IS presented only fuels the calls of some to act even when there's no evidence.

The Daily Telegraph columnist (Allison Pearson - a Katie Hopkins wannabe), who lives in Cambridge, tweeted in the wake of the Manchester concert attack: “We need a State of Emergency as France has. We need internment of thousands of terror suspects now to protect our children."


Yup...someone else with a limited knowledge of history. Internment did nothing for the situation in Northern Ireland whilst Guantanamo Bay probably created more terrorists than it took in.

What would you suggest then?

I have no problem in firm action being taken against those that pose a terrorist threat - not the mosques they may have attended, or their innocent families - provided there's adequate evidence. To this end I've already mentioned this thread the need to increase funding for those involved in counter-terrorism. If it turns out that alarm bells concerning the Manchester bomber were ignored, it might well be a result of overloaded, inadequate, resources

Going of half-cock, rounding up people on the flimsiest of suspicion and lowering the standards of law in dealing with them - laws which protect us all - is not the answer and is more likely to separate us from the muslim community whose cooperation is vital if we are to detect and inhibit those who are planning terrorist acts. It will also hamper the likelihood of action being taken against those who pose a real and imminent threat by diverting resources to 'red herrings'.

I firmly believe that the vast majority of the muslim community is as worried as we are by the actions of a few....perhaps more worried. The potential for a backlash is very real. We should be enhancing our work with the muslim communities in the battle against terrorism rather than vilifying them with ill-considered rhetoric.

[Zooropa]

You are proposing nothing then - on reflection i think il choose this Katie Hopkins wannabe's ideas over and above yours, at least her ideas actually involve doing something.


Im tired of you cant do this and you cant do that because you will cause this and cause that, nobody was bothered back in the eighties when i and others were arrested multiple times and kept in jails only to be released without charge and left out of pocket as we needed to make our own way home, often from the other end of the country because of football related violence, nobody was concerned at our rights being p*ss** on, no one was bothered at any potential backlash from tens of thousands of non violent, non law breaking fans being treated like third class citizens. Nobody is concerned at the backlash or reaction to the increased measures travellers are subjected to every time they want to get on a plane. Where were the bleeding heart liberals when i had 6 stitches in my head caused by a policeman who charged me on his horse as i was walking down the street attending a match v WBA back in 1987? The fact of the matter was that most soccer violence was carried out by white males aged 18-40 and from then on our card was marked regardless.

You speak of separation from the Muslim community - they are already largely separated by their own volition in plenty of circumstances. There are several areas here in Leicester which are more or less religiously and racially segregated communities. There are polls carried out by people such as the BBC that show disturbing numbers of Muslim's with worrying opinions when it comes to ISIS and other western values concerning religious freedom and homosexuality. But nobody wants to speak about this because it upsets people and it divides communities and makes people like you "concerned" about community cohesion and the singling out of a particular demographic of people.

Meanwhile we will just put "pray for" monicas on our social media profiles, make heart shaped signs and say "we stand with" comments and post pictures of members of the non white community giving free taxi rides and medical assistance to victims and burn a few candles, quite often done before we have the full body count, victims named and laid to rest, and keep calm and carry on.

Until the next time.

[Horus]

The answer Zooropa is that he would do nothing, he accuses me of being Islamophobic whilst being an appeaser and apologist for terrorists himself. He lives in his own bubble with no real concept of the world about him and in true appeaser form he will attempt to use any slur available to stop you having any opinion that differs with his own, he will always be right and you will always be wrong.
Even when I point out that the TV interview he showed was not the one I referred to, he still insists that it is and because he did not see it, then in his world it does not exist, his blinkered vision will only see the things that suit his version of reality. I suggest he reads his own replies before accusing others of having a rant although I would rather be accused of ranting than the pomposity he displays towards every member on here that makes a valid comment that jars with his own views, his Katie Hopkins jibe is typical, because he does not like her, she then becomes a figure to be used as an insult to others by comparing someone to her, I would suggest that in this country at least her views probably have more popular support than his soft on terrorism ones ever will. He will twist your words and throw in facts that he gleans from elsewhere and presents as being his own, that is why I attach about as much importance to his views of radical Islam as I do his summation of the Brexit vote vote in which he also informed us all as to how we had got it wrong, but of course he had not. Remember how he lumped everyone over the age of 55 as being out of touch with no right to play a part in the future direction of our country, yet in the same breath he will exhort us all to respect the legal profession and the law which is awash with geriatric judges most well past retirement as being the fount of all wisdom and sagacity, he can’t have it both ways. They have about as much understanding of living in the real world as he does and no doubt my robust reply will be deemed a rant in his eyes.

Two bodies in the road, one a paedophile and the other a lawyer, how do you know which is which?
Answer = there will be skid marks in front of the paedophile.

[newcastle]

You're entitled to your opinion Zooropa.

I don't share it and, more importantly, nor do the powers that be....as far as I can tell.

Do you really prefer Katie Hopkins ' "final solution" to the muslim problem?

[Zooropa]

The answer Zooropa is that he would do nothing, he accuses me of being Islamophobic whilst being an appeaser and apologist for terrorists himself. He lives in his own bubble with no real concept of the world about him and in true appeaser form he will attempt to use any slur available to stop you having any opinion that differs with his own, he will always be right and you will always be wrong.
Even when I point out that the TV interview he showed was not the one I referred to, he still insists that it is and because he did not see it, then in his world it does not exist, his blinkered vision will only see the things that suit his version of reality. I suggest he reads his own replies before accusing others of having a rant although I would rather be accused of ranting than the pomposity he displays towards every member on here that makes a valid comment that jars with his own views, his Katie Hopkins jibe is typical, because he does not like her, she then becomes a figure to be used as an insult to others by comparing someone to her, I would suggest that in this country at least her views probably have more popular support than his soft on terrorism ones ever will. He will twist your words and throw in facts that he gleans from elsewhere and presents as being his own, that is why I attach about as much importance to his views of radical Islam as I do his summation of the Brexit vote vote in which he also informed us all as to how we had got it wrong, but of course he had not. Remember how he lumped everyone over the age of 55 as being out of touch with no right to play a part in the future direction of our country, yet in the same breath he will exhort us all to respect the legal profession and the law which is awash with geriatric judges most well past retirement as being the fount of all wisdom and sagacity, he can’t have it both ways. They have about as much understanding of living in the real world as he does and no doubt my robust reply will be deemed a rant in his eyes.

Two bodies in the road, one a paedophile and the other a lawyer, how do you know which is which?
Answer = there will be skid marks in front of the paedophile.

Wow Horus! I best fasten mi seat belt on this one..........

[Zooropa]

You're entitled to your opinion Zooropa.

I don't share it and, more importantly, nor do the powers that be....as far as I can tell.

You are correct, they don't and they are wrong and it wont change until they become more worried of the majority backlash than they are of the minority one.

Do you really prefer Katie Hopkins ' "final solution" to the muslim problem?

Im not going to answer that question because its beneath me and an insult to my character


The article was clumsy and no doubt designed to provoke a reaction. Are you seriously suggesting that she is an advocate of the rounding up of Muslims and placement in gas chambers? No doubt you would like that because it plays into your anti right political positioning and is straight out of the left wing "if you dont agree with me your evil" handbook. I would argue that you know very well this is not what she meant and you are being intellectually dishonest.

[newcastle]

Horus : Keep up the rants...but a few paragraphs might make them (slightly) more intelligible. Still got Brexit-on-the-brain I see

Even when I point out that the TV interview he showed was not the one I referred to

Oh but it was....your post very clearly indicates that.

Where is this "other" speech from MIC you "meant"? Remember it's the MIC to which you referred.

I would suggest that in this country at least her (Katie Hopkins) views probably have more popular support than his soft on terrorism ones ever will

Amongst the uneducated bigots maybe. I note you're happy to be amongst them. She's a widely vilified laughing stock....now facing a possible police investigation for hate speech/incitement.

[Zooropa]

Horus : Keep up the rants...but a few paragraphs might make them (slightly) more intelligible. Still got Brexit-on-the-brain I see

Keep it on point Newcastle - cheap shot grammar pull ups are BS and are a poor replacement for a valid argument.

Even when I point out that the TV interview he showed was not the one I referred to

Oh but it was....your post very clearly indicates that.

Where is this "other" speech from MIC you "meant"? Remember it's the MIC to which you referred.

I would suggest that in this country at least her (Katie Hopkins) views probably have more popular support than his soft on terrorism ones ever will

Amongst the uneducated bigots maybe. I note you're happy to be amongst them. She's a widely vilified laughing stock....now facing a possible police investigation for hate speech/incitement.

Of course she is under investigation, any criticism of Islam or Muslim's will result in a visit from plod, a demand that you wind your neck and your opinion in or else,
good thing to i say, their intervention clearly has stopped another terror plot - hang her i say!

Laughing stock? You are as far away from the truth on this as you are from the country currently, she writes for the biggest selling newspaper in the country (save the Sun whom she has also written for) and her LBC radio show is very popular.

As for uneducated bigots, well you best add me to the list in that case.

[newcastle]

You're entitled to your opinion Zooropa.

I don't share it and, more importantly, nor do the powers that be....as far as I can tell.

You are correct, they don't and they are wrong and it wont change until they become more worried of the majority backlash than they are of the minority one.

Do you really prefer Katie Hopkins ' "final solution" to the muslim problem?

Im not going to answer that question because its beneath me and an insult to my character


The article was clumsy and no doubt designed to provoke a reaction. Are you seriously suggesting that she is an advocate of the rounding up of Muslims and placement in gas chambers? No doubt you would like that because it plays into your anti right political positioning and is straight out of the left wing "if you dont agree with me your evil" handbook. I would argue that you know very well this is not what she meant and you are being intellectually dishonest.

I've no idea what she meant. I know what she tweeted and, even someone as ignorant as she surely cannot have failed to see how it would be read. I gather she hastily edited it...after the fallout....to "true solution"

If there's another meaning to "final solution" I've yet to hear it. As to what "true solution" means....your guess is as good as mine

[Zooropa]

The concluding statement in an end of year report from a former director of a company i worked for stated something along the lines of:

"The final solution regarding our competitors is something we shall have to consider in the coming new financial period"


Was he advocating we put them in the gas chamber as well?

I repeat - intellectually dishonest.

[Zooropa]

The term "final solution" was used by the Nazi's in reference to their policy on Jews.

That was over half a century ago and i think its time we stopped using it as an opportunity to throw slime over people who's opinions we don't like when they use those words, she was foolish to have done so because of the reaction it was always going to provoke, but it doesnt mean what you want it to mean - sorry to disappoint you.

You seem to know very well what she meant with the "final solution" which you didnt like and presumably felt offended by but you have no idea what she meant when she changed it to "true solution".

I think you must have been in on A-Four's brain swap deal!

Intellectually dishonest.

[newcastle]

Horus : Keep up the rants...but a few paragraphs might make them (slightly) more intelligible. Still got Brexit-on-the-brain I see

Even when I point out that the TV interview he showed was not the one I referred to

Oh but it was....your post very clearly indicates that.

Where is this "other" speech from MIC you "meant"? Remember it's the MIC to which you referred.

I would suggest that in this country at least her (Katie Hopkins) views probably have more popular support than his soft on terrorism ones ever will

Amongst the uneducated bigots maybe. I note you're happy to be amongst them. She's a widely vilified laughing stock....now facing a possible police investigation for hate speech/incitement.

Of course she is under investigation, any criticism of Islam or Muslim's will result in a visit from plod, a demand that you wind your neck and your opinion in or else,
good thing to i say, their intervention clearly has stopped another terror plot - hang her i say!

Laughing stock? You are as far away from the truth on this as you are from the country currently, she writes for the biggest selling newspaper in the country (save the Sun whom she has also written for) and her LBC radio show is very popular.

As for uneducated bigots, well you best add me to the list in that case.

OK ..in our fight to defeat terrorism let's not only dispense with habeas corpus but also rescind the laws against hate speech & incitement to violence so the the likes of dear, much loved & followed, Katie Hopkins can spout their vitriol, however crass, without fear of retribution. Of course, to be fair, the same largesse should be granted to mad mullahs in the mosques, or indeed anywhere.

I'm not sure I regard writing for the Mail or Sun conveys gravitas...and if people actually listen to her on LBC it is more likely to be akin to the horrified fascination one feels watching a train crash in slow motion. What will she say next??

Incidentally, I gather the Sun is subject to another boycott fiasco in Manchester following a crass front page juxtapositioning of the bomber with a victim.

Yep...Katie writes for the very best in British journalism.

[Zooropa]

You like to use numbers when they suit you Newcastle but are quite happy to park that methodology when it works against you. The guardian's numbers are shrinking as we speak and they are no longer, and have not been for a while a financially viable entity - they are kept afloat by a few left wing donors. Your opinion that people listen to Hopkins for reasons other than her popularity is complete conjecture and something that your scientific background would not give any credence to normally, are you going to park that philosophy here as well?