The fall of Atlanis.

[Bullet Magnet]

One thing that has perplexed me for a very long time.

Atlantis. How long since it's fall ?


Now, I sort of subscibe to Sitchin's version of Atlantis, but the time frame has always been an issue for me.

As late as the turn of the 20th century, it was claimed that the remnants of Atlantis could still be seen under the water in certain conditions. Even allowing for the rise and fall of the Atlantic sea bed, but something does not make sense.

Now, as I understand it, the Carribean islands make up part of the remnants of Atlantis, and when others such as Plato talk of Atlantis, they placed it somewhere off the straits of Gibraltar, or at least near that area.

If as is claimed by many that Atlatis fell about 16,000 years ago, then that puts the age of the Great Pyramid firmly in that timescale quoted by of that of John West and a few others I could mention.

Here is the problem. How could Atlatis have moved so far West in such a short space of time ?

Moving on to the Giza plateau, and while it is my own beleif that the Sphynx has nothing to do with the pyramids and is, literally millions of years old, then this re-inforces my theory of the GP being in that sort of time frame, that and the obvious submersion of the GP for many thousands of years under water ( AKA Great flood, possibly more than one great flood ? ) take sit away from the 16 - 13,000 year old theory. ( forget the story of Arabs constructing medieval Cairo out of the limestone off the Pyramids, common sense blows that theory, as does human nature..)

So, was "time" measured differently in those day's ? or is the Atlantis theory just too vague ?
maybe the Dark Ages have once again removed another truth from Human history..

Wether you want top beleive in Atlantis or not, maybe you have heard some kind of plausable information from one theory or another, regaring the fall of Atlantis and it's timing.

I'm not trying to prove my "millions of years old" pyramid theory, just try to find an accurate timeframe, which is eluding me.

[Subversion]

The "time" concept is one I really struggle with - I once talked to someone who was (so I am told" quite an eminent researcher for the likes of Hancock et al - and he helped me to grasp that time as we understand it is a very modern man made concept and not how time was measured by the ancients - this explains how Noah ended up being 800 and something! So I think anything that pre-dates the Julian calender (45BC) is probably to be regarded with a degree of questioning.

I would be very grateful for an explanation likewise!

Sx

[Bullet Magnet]

The way I understand time, is that it must be a sort of frequency, and that all our time exists in a moment in time.
Let me TRY to explain that..

First, all our 5 ( 6 in reality ) senses, simply sense vibration, all our senses feel vibration. Light is a very high frequency, sound is much lower, a different frequency but a vibration non the less.
How does your brain know what light looks like or even what it is ? it has no direct exposure to the light, so maybe light is not light, just a frequency that is interpreted as light by the brain..
ALL these vibrations are picked up by our minds and relayed to the brain for the brain to interpret. ( every cell in our body I beleive is our individual "mind" )

So, with our 5 senses, we "see" the world.. Now this is the complex part that I struggle to explain to people, words are pretty useless, but I will try.
Now we can see, so, we can see the physical separation between ourselves and everything else that exists. That gives us "distance".
THE ONLY way you can measure a distance is if you introduce "time".. the time it takes to see that distance, or travel that distance,
but the time in itself cannot exist. If all we had was time, then time could not exist, or at least be meaningless just on it's own.

So, we have to introduce a form of vibration or frequency ( the only thing our mind can sense ) to give us time. Like a subliminal clock that ticks, this clock is not giving us "time" per say, it is helping us judge the "distance".
using this analargy, we are so used to hearing the ticking of the clock, that we can no loger hear it. That happens when ANY of our senses receives some thing constant over a period of "time", and your brain can "ignore" this constant exposure.

For example. As a kid I lived next door to a farm, the smell from the cowsheds and the silage was overpowering when we first moved into that house.
Within 2 weeks, I no loger noticed the smell, and after a while, maybe 2 months or so, even when I had been away in school all day, I could not smell the farm anymore. I had to be away for a week or 2 before I could smell the farm, and within minutes, I could no loger smell the farm. my brain was just used to it.

So, imagine what is happening when you are a new born baby, part of that growing up process in the early days is learning to react to time. Problem is, many people cannot remember being a baby.

I have experinced many time anomalies, infact everyone has,
When you are excited ot having moments of joy, the time goes by more quickly, and then there's deja vu.
I have had a deja vu at the same time as someone else in the same place and replayed about 7 seconds of our lives, as we both witnessed what each other was doing, then witnessed it again and said " I just saw you do that"
Had I have been on my own, I would have just put it down as another ordinary Deja vu "feeling"

The Bible did indeed talk of people living to be a great age. I know something of that, and I have no doubt that Giant's roamed this earth at some time.

The Bible also talks of the Nephalym (sp) in genesis 6.
BUT dont forget that this could also mean that they had a high level of consciousness, an analargy for "big" ..
This is represented symbolicly in Egypt everywhere.
The Egyptian people in the beginning were highly evolved beings, practiced in meditation, as depicted in the Colossi of Memnon statues.
They also produced buildings of remarkable accuracy and consistency, NOTHING is out of place, every detail perfect.

I cant work out why they devolved so much ? My best guess is that they depended on the ability to speak too much, and put too much trust in the spoken word. Having the ability to speak and communicate orally gives one the ability to lie !
Lies are highly destructive, words are very powerful..

highly eveloved beings do not need speech to communicate. Even lower beings like animals do not speak, but interact in a very inticate way with each other....

[Subversion]

I don't have a scientific mind so scientific concepts are hard for me - I do however agree that we had and have largely buried our "higher" conscious - our intuitive and telepathic skills and lost our sense of ourselves as masses of molecular energy.

I agree with that lack of a need for speech - the only thing I would challenge is that animals are lower beings - perhaps our custom is to see them as such - but 15 years of living with my dog - well I know who the higher being is!

The explanation of time is something I can go with - its a bit on the line of "if a tree falls over in the forest does it make a sound"

It does gall me more than a little bit when the scientific community marginalise certain theories as "fringe" or "alternative" - I don't disagree that science underpins everything - the question is what sort of science? And is the knowledge of this already within us and forgotten or is it something that we have to earn our way toward understanding - is revelation part of a grand plan (which I fear when ultimately revealed will lead to our extinction!) and are we being drip-fed our discoveries?

With regard to Egypt - the thing that always fascinated me was the completeness and consistency of a body of knowledge.

The stories told in hieroglyphs appear to represent a knowledge that was already ancient by the time they were built.

How - as you say - were they able to build with such accuracy using processes which have never been fully understood or replicated successfully - with such scientific skill?

I think the real question is Why did they build - and the answer to that lies in their belief system?

Doesn't it strike you as bizarre that a culture that thought so scientifically based its spiritual/esoteric beliefs on such flights of fancy ?

That knowledge, those stories and those images were founded in something - and accepted as consistent truths - as far as I know there is no documentation supporting any ratification treaties in the same way as the bible was formed.

All too much for my little head!

Sx

[Darkstar]

What evidence is there that Atlantis was in the caribbean? Does it not make more sense that Plato was talking about Santorini (Thera) as The so called Atlantis? And that the Atlantians were more likely to be the Minoan civilisation of Crete and Santorini?

Let's look at the evidence; The island of Santorini or Thera as it was called originally is a volcanic island, geological study has shown that the island has erupted often and each time formed a new caldera (crater) which meant that it looked like concentric rings of rocky islands in the sea. How does Plato describe Atlantis? As rings of land surrounded by canals hmmm very much like the caldera. The minoans like the Atlantians were a very culturally advanced sea trading peoples, also destroyed by a great catastrophe. The eruption of santorini dated at 1627-1600 bce (95% accuracy from carbon dating). was preceeded by a large magnitude earthquake and when it erupted approx 50-60% of the island slipped into the sea causing a tsunami that destroyed minoan coastal settlements on Crete and buried the city of Akrotiri on Santorini in tons of volcanic ash. This all ties in neatly with Plato's account so i would forget the Caribbean, the Andes, India and other such outlandish places named as Atlantis.

[A-Four]

All of the above about Atlantis is way out of my league, but thanks to you above for your writting, it starting to show that we can discuss things like the old days way back before I joined this forum.

From what I understand is that there is no evidence as to the owner of the great pyramid except for a graffiti. There is though very strong evidence, in the public domain that the sphinx is many thoughts of years older than the pyramids

The idea of the flood theory is very interesting indeed,......please write more.

[JOJO]

I'm totally with Darkstar on this. The evidence is there, Santorini as got to be the main candidate for Atlantis. The Santorini Earthquake as got to be the answer to a lot of ancient puzzles that coincide around those times. Pumice for the earthquake that was spurted out during one of the biggest most devastating eruptions the earth has witnessed has been found in Egypt. The tsunami that followed could easily explain the parting of the waves story and the death of first born male child coincides with the fact that first born males were given the privilege of sleeping on the roofs so would of inhaled the toxic fumes...the list and evidence goes on and on.

[Bullet Magnet]

All of the above about Atlantis is way out of my league, but thanks to you above for your writting, it starting to show that we can discuss things like the old days way back before I joined this forum.

Thank YOU A-Four.

That is a part of what this topic is about. All this political stuff is way beneath me, and I think it is dragging the forum down a bit.

I have part of the next post written on my other computer, answering Darkstar's excellent comment.

I find it strange that you say Atlantis is way above you, I do not know you personally apart from the 15 minutes we spent together outside a restaurant, and dare I say, you were rather under the influence, so you probably do not even remember me at all.

In your profession, Curiosity has to be the flame that powers the machine. So I would appreciate anything you may have heard, even if it was an -in-passing remark.

Anyway, I will be adding to this late tonight or early hours, I wont be home till gone 11 PM.


JOJO. I will produce some evidence ( If the Name Atlanti"c" and ATLANTI"S" are not obvious enough for people) that Atlantis existed where it should. This was no small tourist island..

[Bullet Magnet]

Well, I would imagine that Santorini would be too small an Island. The concentric rings match, but they could have been copied or a natural formation ?.
There was supposed to be an Island off Atalntis with the rings though, The main Island was almost a small continent.
It appepars to have broken off West Africa, after the Main continents drifted apart, or fell off South America during the drift. Either way, it's the same result.
The Coastlines of the opposing coastlines do not trace into each other when you compare them. An Island would fill that gap.

Also, the name Atalantis, and the Ocean the Atlantic, no coincidence of that I am sure.
From the Santorini theory, If the Atlatians bailed from the island, then Greece would have been an obvious port of call. Why bother going all the way to Egypt ?

I know that many people think the mediterranean is the most likely place for Atlantis, but more than likely with the timeframe I would like to justify, then the mediterranean would not have existed at that time, just the Nile Basin. Africa and Europe would have still been joined together, or at least, too narrow to allow any great amount of sea water through it.
I never say Never though, this is shall we say, a tricky subject, as most think Atlantis is a myth.



A-Four, this is how my flood theory works regarding the Pyramids. ( Briefley )

The earth has indeed gone through many changes over time, the sun has risen in the West on more than one occasion, and it is almost possible that the Nile could have run West to East at one time. I discount that theory, as I believe the world simply shifts poles.
Sun rises in the West ? The Sphinx is facing East, Lying down. A Lion get's UP at sunrise !
or, it's possible, or was it facing it's celestial self in the age of Leo ?

Could have only happened once, maybe millions of years ago, the sphinx has much lateral erosion caused by water flow.

So, the all the Pyramid's casing is missing, bar a small few on top of the GP.
IF a flood ocured, then this could have been of a great hieght and hit with much force.
Since the GP is that much higher than the other pyramids, the similar distance between the top of the other 2 and the ending of the limestone casing on the GP. Could that distance represnt the hight of the flood ? The top part of the GP was not exposed to the flood ? maybe the force of the water ripped many of them off, then the whole surface gradually became exposed
Sandstone could have been eroded by fresh water flowing past it from the Nile in later years..
NO doubt many of these blocks were more or les intact, knocked about and lying on the ground. If they were just looted, then they woudl not have stopped until they were all gone.
these things woudl have to be quarried on site and not carried off, they were several tons each !

There's evidence of meteor strikes throughout the world's history, maybe a metor strike caused the stones to be shakan off with the vibration, and that would also explain the cracked Granite supporting blocks above the Kings chamber in the GP.. ?
This theory would reinforce the 13 -16,000 year theory, as apparently there was a metior strike in the Atlantic near North America. Micro diamonds provided the proof.


I didnt want to leaver the topic standing too long, so I have a lot more to add, and some references in more detail to make to what I just said. The sun is shining for a change, so I am off out for a long walk. Moel Famau and Arthurs Seat.

[A-Four]

This is quite heavy for me first thing in a morning, I can see l am going to have to come back to this tonight when I have had a drink, a large one, I might add. What about you Jo Jo ? We might even have to bring up the heavy guns on this one being Kevin.

BM, when you say the Nile once probably flowed from West to East, did you get that wrong, l think you mean North to South. As to the blocks from the pyramids I am in some agreement, however, two years ago on here l wrote about Carter House, and the huge boulders that you see today on the other side of the present day cemetary, people I know think they have been there since the beginning of time. Not so, these were brought down during a tremendous flash floods, that was seen and recorded by Howard Carter, less than one hundred years ago. I think you have an idea what my next question is. I see no huge, for they were, huge block of limestone, scattered any where in the vast area around the pyramids, so where are they now ?

[Bullet Magnet]

Oh, do not get me wrong, they would have had anything that was lying about, and cut it down to size on site to transport it away.
Howver, levering the limestone blocks off the pyramids woudl have been an impossible and dangerous task.

The West to East flow of the nile woudl have meant that the world must have tilted 90 degree's, possibly after a meteor strike, that threw the world off balance and caused the "wobble" that we have today. BUT, the star charts of the Ancients woudl have been different if that were the case, and they are not. So, that is just a theory at present.

Incredibly however, it does appear that the world has rotated the other way, and in order to do that without defying the laws of physics, it must have stopped first. IF that happened, than there woudl have been a lot of water on the move all of a sudden !!
The "Sphynx" is now lying down to sleep, as the Eastern sun sets !! Millions of years ago..

The world is a giant electro magnet, it has 2 poles, and a polar shift is quite a strange thing to occur.
How can we explain this with Human understanding ?

I think that the Ancient Egyptians knew that this had happened, but I do not think it was in their time.
The Zodiac at Dendera shows the precession of the constelations in reverse order, which I thought was odd at the time.

I have more to add. Just enjoying my time off at present..

[Aromagician]

Some people think there used to be two sphinx. One to face the rising sun ( Shu) and one to face the setting sun ( Tefnut). Not sure about Atlantis, there must have been an almighty flood at one time though as there are so may stories of one.

[LivinginLuxor]

But, the casing stones of the pyramid are still there! They appear in the buildings of old Cairo, where the good quality stone was used as an easy quarry.

[gd47]

This whole debate has prompted me to re-read "Worlds in Collision" and "Ages in Chaos" by Velikovsky.
Both very interesting and thought-provoking.

[Bullet Magnet]

Synchronisticly, My Mate Gendalf found this for me, I have waited for a long time for this news to surface.

http://www.apparentlyapparel.com/2/post ... angle.html

Tibet next

[Aromagician]

Well there are some fascinating photos of Yonaguni Island off Japan
http://www.morien-institute.org/yonaguni.html

There was one civilisation in Japan who did bury themselves in tombs like the Egyptians, and evidence that there was possible contact through Mongolia to Hungary to Egypt. Has been a few years since I was looking at that civilisation.

As you can see here, ( this is a fifth century tomb) but Roman jewellery was found. Showing there was travel around the world http://news.yahoo.com/roman-jewellery-f ... 50978.html

The Yayoi arrived into Japan and were tomb builders.

[Bullet Magnet]

Pyramids everywhere in the World. Romania has one, China has the biggest so far, some poor sod has to pretend he is farming on top of it.
in fact there are many in China..

This topic is going to start to blend in with your Ressuraction and Ascension topic Aromagician.
What I will be setting out to prove, is sadly for the "Egyptians" (they were not Egyptians at the time) they managed the exact opposite of Ascension. but they took measures to preserve their knowledge and past.

The Article Gendalf sent me, ( above) is not quite true, but it is close.
There is indeed a structure down there, but it is not a Pyramid. There's more to be exposed to see the real shape of what this structure is.


Back to Atlantis..

There are stories that the Atlatians were vain and proud people, and became much like the western society today, and destroyed themselves that way..that is not true.

They knew that a meteteorite was heading to earth, they even knew that it was going to hit Atlantis.
Like I said before, they shared their island with 2 other groups of "people" ( if "people" is how we label intelligent life.)

The Atlantians shared their part of the island with a group of people who had laready been here on earth, and failed to make it to the next level, this group of people lived with the Atalntians from what I can gather.
The other group of "people" had come to Atlantis out of necessity, but broke the rules by doing so.
The Atlantians agreed that they could stay, the Atlantians had compassion.

When refering to the Atlantian's, I now mean this group of 2 "peoples".
The others were not Atlantians, they had much different ways and had technology and loved to make "things". They co-existed with each other, and I am sure they had their differences, but highly intelligent peoples do not fight over their differences, there were compromises on both sides, and truth was the key here in maintaining the overall scoiety.

Back to the impending Metiorite strike.
The Ataltians who were very right brained ( female) people decided that they should let gods will take it's course.
The other gorup said, screw that, we have the technology to get rid of this meteorite, we can hit it and we will be safe.
For whatever reason, God's will won, and it was decided that there would be no intervention.

on a personal note here.
The Atlantians said "Gods will should be done" and allow the meteorite to do it's thing.
NOW, at which point, did the Atlatians think that another race who could have saved them was NOT god's will baffles me.
Also, this race could have had the opportunity for redemtion or at least proving their worth to the Atantians by doing this and saving Atlantis ?? ( everything happens for a reason, good coming out of bad)..

Anyhow, the meteorite hit !
The people who wanted to save Atlantis got hit the hardest, infact, their species was almost wiped out.
As you can imagine, they were not happy about this. it's a long story about how the rest transpires, I wont go into that, as I just do not know. I do not know what happened to this technological race. At present it is just a theory for me.. Anglesey may hold the key..

The Atlantians had to leave Atlatis, it was flooding and the Island was sinking, so they went to Egypt.
There was a group who went ahead of the main exodus, and they built the Pyramid at Giza.

The FALL of Atlantis was not really a fall, the Atlatians were quite literally loosing thier mind, not individual minds, but the collective mind that they could all tap into and utilise. This Mind still exists today, and some people can and do tap into it from time to time.
We have a new name for it, and I will come back to that. and indeed the rest of what happened... I will reveal the name of the people who joined the Atalntians in Nursey School.

[LivinginLuxor]

Romania doesn't have a pyramid! It has a marketing opportunity originated by a rather weird character!

But the Chinese have many pyramid like structures, which are not true pyramids - they are flat topped structures, as are the Mexican versions. Some people tend to see the prevalence of pyramids as part of a plan (by whom?) but maybe the reason that they were built was that they were an aesthetically pleasing shape.

[Bullet Magnet]

Romania doesn't have a pyramid! It has a marketing opportunity originated by a rather weird character!

But the Chinese have many pyramid like structures, which are not true pyramids - they are flat topped structures, as are the Mexican versions. Some people tend to see the prevalence of pyramids as part of a plan (by whom?) but maybe the reason that they were built was that they were an aesthetically pleasing shape.

You could be right Stan, and I dont really want to get drawn into that arguement, but some pyramids did not need the cap, and can be open topped. Advanced Civilisations, unlike wasteful and dumb humans would build a structure to serve more than one purpose, of that I am fairly sure. The function of the Pyramids need to be discussed, and that is not relevant yet.


So, back to Ancient Egypt.

The Ancients appeared quite literally from nowhere, no evolution. They just appeared and got on with life and building.
IF The Egyptian's were the Atlantians, then this topic should at least offer a plausible explanation regarding the Dawn of Ancient Egyptians.

You see, there is NO evidence of this happening, but then there is no evidence that the Egyptians lived anywhere else in the world prior to Egypt and the Nile.

So if one were to argue " No such thing as Atlantis and them being the Egyptian people",
then we need an explantion where the Egyptians came from, and that proof has not been found.

I could also argue using the Sherlock Holmes rationale.
"Once ALL the possibilities have been explored and rejected, whatever is left HAS to be the Answer".


2 options,

1 / Immediate enlightenment for a whole civilisation overnight, or

2/ an Intelligent race occupying the land out of neccesity, and if their prior homeland can't be found, why can it not be Atlantis ???


jumping around a bit here, I know, but I also see that these people were developing a Language, a very simple language, and when one considers the names of the places and God's, ( but also remembering to remove all the extra "I" 's and "S" 's that the Ancient Greeks added to the Egyptians Language), then that is a plausible theory.

An Intelligent race with a collective mind would have no need for speech, but may need to issue verbal sounds as an exprerssion of emotion or effort, or even to attract attention of or mimik other creatures, or issue urgent warnings to others.

We see a language emerging and developing, plus we see the building quality deteriorate as time goes by.

Proof that they were loosing their "mind", ? and having to write things down to preserve the knowledge.
Symbols would need to be used though, not text, as languages die out. Kids learn with symbols and pictures//

I beleive that this knowledge that was written down, soon bacame a form of religion as they got less and less smart.
NOW they are dependent on speech. The level of consciousness is now practically on the floor.

I will come back to why this was happening later on. We have to go back to Atlantis to answer that.

The Atlantians shared their island with another 2 races. And one race seems to have been more comaptible with the Atlantian's.
I see it a bit like a new kid in school finding a friend who has already done a year in that school, and knows his way around the place, it would be logical to make a friend or allie like that..
this "friend" was the Hebrew people. They would have had a lot of knowledge, they had played the game of life on earth before, and the Atlatians would have seen that as some form of blessing that there was a guide in this life.
I have no reason to dount that these 2 races may have co existed very happily together and it was mutually benficial to both parties, as the Hebrew's must have relaised that they had gone wrong somewhere down the line, and probably could learn that lesson from the Atantians. If both races could make it, then they would move on up together.

The third race, did not come from this planet, but had to come here becuase thier planet was in imminent danger, or was dying for whatever reason. I will reveal who I think they were a little later on. We are going to be pushing the boundaries of credulity to the limit probably for most people reading this..

I'll try to get back to this tonight.. I still have Aromagicians topic on the go, and I cant get too far ahead on either topic, otherwise the picture becomes apparant in the other topic..

[Darkstar]

There is a lot to wade through in this topic, some could be said to be silly, alien peeps colonizing Atlantis. How can this assertion be made without a shred of impirical evidence? Also Hebrews on Atlantis? the earliest reference to these people is during the reign of Ahmose I they lived with the Hyksos and were known as the El, the name of their god. As for Atlantis/Atlantic being no coincidence, don't forget Plato wrote republic in 380 bce approx 11,000 years after the eruption and he was only reiterating a story he had been told off an Egyptian priest. As to why the Atlantians went to Egypt and not Greece, who says they didn't? the legend says they went to many places as teachers, maybe they got a bad reception in Greece (a collection of warring states) and left. Aftyerrt all who was Verrocatcha who arrived at South America with other teachers?.