Joann Fletcher - Egypt's Lost Queens

[newcastle]

This BBC prog is being repeated 8pm Saturday BBC Four

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04gnhv5

[Horus]

Thanks for the reminder Newcastle, a good programme

[denisegr]

Thanks for the heads up

[newcastle]

As I'll be travelling next Saturday I thought I'd take a look at this prog which is available on You Tube :



It'll appeal to a general audience but, as so often with Joann's TV output, her wanderings off into pure speculation becomes irritating to anyone with a deeper knowledge. I'd give it 5/10.

Personally, I find her accent a little hard to bear throughout 55 minutes....but, at least we were spared any tears!

I found it odd that she chose Hetepheres and Nefertari as examples of queenly power rather than, say, Tiye (wife of Amenhotep III) or Nefertiti. Maybe she was distracted by the grave goods of the former and the remarkable temple (Abu Simbel) and tomb of the latter. In reality, there's no evidence that either of them had much say in the running of the country.

Another of Joann's traits is to read far too much into relief depictions. It's highly improbable, for instance, that Hatshepsut would have led her troops into battle....or that the headdress of Arsinoe II on the walls of Philae temple deliberately alluded to her female predecessors. In lauding Arsinoe as a great queen and pharaoh, it's notable that Joann omits any reference to her rather bloodthirsty and intrigue-laden rise to power!

No mention of the damnatio memoriae suffered by Hatshepsut after her demise.

Watchable...but very superficial.

[Horus]

Having seen the programme previously I would go along with all of what you say about her presentation style, interesting, but it does raise many questions.

You raised the point of damnatio memoriae or the erasing of Hatshepsut’s memory, particularly at Deir El Bahari, but I am always troubled by the two cartouches (her own and Tuthmossis III) appearing side by side on the (memorial) Red Chapel that is reconstructed in the Karnak Temple area which would seem to indicate that at the time of her death he himself (Tuthmossis III) had no problem with her rule. I think that the erasing of her memory probably took place much later and maybe at the behest of the priesthood who did not want such a precedent to be set? Hence the eradication at Deir El Bahari and other places, plus the Red chapel later being dismantled and used as infill elsewhere in Karnak Temple. What do others think?

The Red Chapel of Hatshepsut in the outdoor museum area of Karnak Temple


A cropped out and enhanced (for clarity) section containing the two Cartouches as indicated by the blue circle above.


All food for thought

[newcastle]

It's generally accepted that the erasure of images etc. of Hatshepsut took place long after her death. At least 20 years after and extending into the reign of Tuthmosis III successor, Amenhotep II.

Various theories abound as to the reason, the most likely (in my view) being a desire to frustrate the possibility of another female usurping what was regarded as an essentially male role.

Both Joyce Tyldesley and Kate Cooney have written extensively on the matter although both have views perhaps coloured by them being female themselves!

https://books.google.ie/books/about/Hat ... ztAAAAMAAJ

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1950 ... ld-be-king

[Who2]

Here is a screen 'grab-shot of our Omada Sabra & family shouting out 'welcome, as he assumes any white women walking down our street has just or is visiting me albeit with a camera crew attached....
This from her last series...

[Horus]

the most likely (in my view) being a desire to frustrate the possibility of another female usurping what was regarded as an essentially male role.

My thoughts exactly, in fact I think he may have been quite happy to continue his role as a military leader and leave the mundane issues for her to carry out. What young man would not rather persue his own interests than to take on the mantle of governance?

[newcastle]

the most likely (in my view) being a desire to frustrate the possibility of another female usurping what was regarded as an essentially male role.

My thoughts exactly, in fact I think he may have been quite happy to continue his role as a military leader and leave the mundane issues for her to carry out. What young man would not rather persue his own interests than to take on the mantle of governance?

I agree. There's no evidence I've seen, or heard of, indicating that Tuthmosis had any problem with his step-mother whilst she was alive. It's thought that Tuthmosis was engaged primarily with the army during Hatshepsut's time as co-ruler. If he wanted her removed, he had the arms to do so.

Likewise, Hatshepsut, who obviously had the ear of senior courtiers, could presumably have found some way of 'eliminating' Tuthmosis if their relationship as co-rulers was in any way awkward.

We have little to go by, as usual, other than the reliefs on monuments and it wasn't the custom of the Egyptians to record the minutiae of court affairs in such works.

Speculation on the TuthmosisIII/Hatshepsut relationship has spawned almost as much literature as that other couple - Akhenaton/Nefertiti

[Horus]

I would love to have been a fly on the wall in the royal palace, can you imagine the conversation?

“Hi mum, seen my new chariot, its the new six spoked wheel model”
“It looks lovely son, is it real Cedar wood and Ash?”
“Yep! And a fully sprung leather weave floor”
“Lovely, now eat your dinner before it gets hot”
“Oh and by the way, fancy a trip to Punt?”
“Ooh! Nice one mum”