Luxor4u

There is a fire raging at the moment in a 27 story building in Ladbrooke Grove, Notting Hill, London. The top 25 stories are burning uncontrollably. It is thought that due to Ramadan many of the residents were awake as it broke out just after the days fasting finished. The area has been evacuated due to fears the building may collapse. There are no reports of casualties at the moment but people have reported they had witnessed residents jumping from the building.

Heart-breaking scenes and stories on the television this morning. So many children particularly missing. There will be many lessons to be learned from this disaster.

Fire alarms couldn't be heard inside the flats.

It was pretty obvious that the flames spread so rapidly because of the new plastic cladding on the outside of the building.

People had been advised not to leave the building at the outbreak of fire, but those who did leave early even from the top floors survived.

Rescue vehicles couldn't access the site because of the very narrow old roads surrounding the area.

Apart from physical suffering, I was struck by how many people had lost every possession they had. Personal treasures that cannot be replaced.

Everyone involved will have suffered a trauma the effects of which will last all their lives.

Students if they survive will be so traumatised their studies must suffer, the shock of waking in the middle of the night to this will make sleeping so difficult for the survivors. It goes on and on.

It's made me look hard at what I consider necessary in my own life.

What to expect :

48 hours (plus?) of intense media & public speculation, before....

A report commissioned from scientists & building engineers on what caused this disaster, followed by...

Recriminations and recommendations.

My condolences to those who lost property, were injured...or lost their lives

A horrific incident that should never have happened.

Incredible that the local officialdom are still lacking in their support and coordination. Thank goodness for all the amazing volunteers from the local public and charitable organisations.

It has certainly made me question what would happen if such a disaster were to happen in my own locality what would happen. Is there a local Disaster Master Plan with evacuation/shelter points, basic forms prepared for identification and identity purposes etc. I know there was something lined up many years ago because a friend who was very involved with Womens Institute and Women's Royal Voluntary Service was a local coordinator and would attend meetings with Emergency Services personnel to make plans for such eventualities. Whether something exists today I have no idea, but it's bugging me enough that I think I should try to find out.

I think most of us on here are old enough to remember Summerland IOM fire.

When did the plastic suddenly become safer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerland_disaster

According to the news yesterday, seven more clad buildings have been found to be a fire risk. As an interested person in plastics technology, plastic is a safe materiel if used for the purpose that particular compound has been specifically developed for. There are, and have been for quite a while, plastic compounds that are near totally fireproof.

Always amazes me how much is used in the cabins of planes, overhead lockers, seats etc.

As Dusak has stated, there are many many plastic based products that are quite fire safe and available. For anyone who has worked in industry they will know that in most cases it is not the product or the regulations that are at fault, but quite often it is the buyers pressing for the lowest price regardless of quality and unscrupulous companies cutting corners to meet those criteria or to make more profits themselves. As with most company accountants, they know the price of everything, but the value of nothing!

Dusak wrote:According to the news yesterday, seven more clad buildings have been found to be a fire risk. As an interested person in plastics technology, plastic is a safe materiel if used for the purpose that particular compound has been specifically developed for. There are, and have been for quite a while, plastic compounds that are near totally fireproof.

Sorry I meant when did the safety standards for plastic change how come this material is band in Germany and USA not UK and why it was not tested by the fire brigade before use on any building perhaps it was some of the red tape dropped.
After the fire at Summerland the plastic on the front of our cinema was tested to be ok.

It is regulated that any new fire retardant component is tested to the required ''burn rate' by the fire authorities before getting the all clear. I doubt very much that these cladding panels had not been tested thoroughly before being allowed to be used in the UK. The problem is, is greed and cost cutting. When you say, have the contract to install many thousands of these panels, it would surprise you how much money can be saved by just taking off a few microns of coating or thickness. It then turns into a fire retardant product, against that of a fully non combustible and fireproof one, as was first tested. Heads should roll for creating this tragedy.

As for aircraft internal paneling, I would imagine its all about weight, fuel saving and durability. And lets be honest, if your plane goes down, no one is going to be concerned if the panels are going to catch fire unless its just a cabin one. There are more likely to be more combustibles inside the overhead storage that could cause a fire than the actual material itself. Which gives a thought, I've never seen a fire extinguisher on a plane, do they have them or is it a central system like fire sprinklers in hotels?

I have seen fire extinguishers in the cupboards near the galley and near the entrance to the cockpit.

There a lots of them and there are stickers on the overhead doors where they can be found.
all materials on aircraft have to meet stringent fire testing a lot was introduced following the British Airtours fire at Manchester in the 1980's

A similar cladding fire issue was found in a new high-rise apartment building fire in Australia a year or so ago.

I think a coronial inquiry found that all the boxes had been ticked, except that the Chinese cladding product was a knock-off and didn't even to begin to comply with fire ratings. I also think that the issue was raised that the knock off was so cheap compared with other similar products that the architects/builders should have known it wasn't up to scratch/acted recklessly in deliberate ignorance. The response here at the time was pretty sanguine and so far, since the London fire, no-one has publically connected any possible dots.

Hafiz, I have said the same thing over on the 'London Tower Blocks Evacuated' thread.
Quote myself:

One of the biggest problems is that as everything is easily sourced globally and even if prohibited under our laws it does not stop people from importing it from elsewhere if they wish, even illegally. One only has to look at the products that get imported from places such as China, many do not meet our standards, but people still buy them.